I didn’t really read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was mentioned.
It is possible to bulk on a very low carb diet. You won’t recover as quickly- but that won’t hinder your progress unless you let it. As long as you consume more than you burn and you train with enough intensity- you will gain.
[quote]SashaG wrote:
Great stuff and I am glad you are taking an open minded approach with the suggestions that have been made.
[/quote]
Thanks for the suggestions. I am always pretty open - I used to be very conservative but it got me nowhere. T-Nation in particular had a way of flipping ideas on their head which were formerly set in stone!
[quote]SashaG wrote:
What I have found most effective is to wake up, have a cup of green tea, and make a 1 part dextrose, 1 part whey protein isolate shake and sip on it during my workouts. [/quote]
Sounds interesting. Had never considered the preworkout high GI approach. In a similar vein though I have found that getting really good preworkout nutrition with sufficient carbs have alleviated the pressure of trying to overdo the PWO shake in terms of both importance and complexity…achieving the same end-results (for me at least, may be different for others especially seasoned, 6x a week individuals who aren’t still getting back into the groove after surgery).
[quote]SashaG wrote:
I know you are weary of high GI/II carbs but in the instance of training and PWO it will actually help your fat loss goals[/quote]
The main goal is actually still muscle and weight gain, but in a slower, more controlled fashion than the traditional bulk (lowering BF % is always a good thing and something I differentiate from “fat loss”). As mentioned though, I will do things in a piecemeal fashion - first replace starchy carbs later in the day with fruit, and then proceed from there. I find trying to change too many variables in one go counterproductive as I do not learn properly how my body responds.
Thanks for all the help, and I do apologize to the OP for the semi-hijack. Hopefully some good came of it though 
You all have some very sound ideas. BUT, I don’t understand how someone can truly get enough total daily calories while bulking if they don’t bump up their CHO intake?
My PRO intake stays relatively steady throughout the year, so does total daily fats. So, bulking and cutting is simply a matter of manipulating CHO intake right? (with some deviations in fat intake)
When I’m trying to gain I need 5000+ calories a day. I’m not gonna get that simply from PRO, fat, and PWO carbs. Therefore breakfast and other daily CHO becomes mandatory.
Am I off base? I’ll admit that I don’t know much about the Anabolic Diet, but that’s not what we’re discussing.
[quote]Soldierslim wrote:
You all have some very sound ideas. BUT, I don’t understand how someone can truly get enough total daily calories while bulking if they don’t bump up their CHO intake?
My PRO intake stays relatively steady throughout the year, so does total daily fats. So, bulking and cutting is simply a matter of manipulating CHO intake right? (with some deviations in fat intake)
When I’m trying to gain I need 5000+ calories a day. I’m not gonna get that simply from PRO, fat, and PWO carbs. Therefore breakfast and other daily CHO becomes mandatory.
Am I off base? I’ll admit that I don’t know much about the Anabolic Diet, but that’s not what we’re discussing.[/quote]
You’re correct- for someone who needs 5000+ calories to bulk. That type is less likely to gain much fat and therefore carb intake isn’t much of a concern. For other types (FFB’s like myself) that bulk and easily gain weight on 3500 calories, limiting carb intake becomes slightly more important.
I can eat ~3500cals/day all clean food and gain 1-2lbs a week easy. That’s only ~500 above maintenance.
It’s also completely different depending on your current BF %, as the lower you are the more carbs you can easily take in.
[quote]Soldierslim wrote:
You all have some very sound ideas. BUT, I don’t understand how someone can truly get enough total daily calories while bulking if they don’t bump up their CHO intake?
My PRO intake stays relatively steady throughout the year, so does total daily fats. So, bulking and cutting is simply a matter of manipulating CHO intake right? (with some deviations in fat intake)
When I’m trying to gain I need 5000+ calories a day. I’m not gonna get that simply from PRO, fat, and PWO carbs. Therefore breakfast and other daily CHO becomes mandatory.
Am I off base? I’ll admit that I don’t know much about the Anabolic Diet, but that’s not what we’re discussing.[/quote]
What it all comes down to at the end of the day is carbohydrate tolerance and the body’s requirements for glycogen.
A surplus of glycogen does not yield increased muscle growth as aside from insulin, which is obviously highly anabolic but also highly lipogenic, excess energy will only be driven into storage within the body when not utilized. This is why it is best to start at a base level of carbohydrates around workout and move up and down from there.
Bulking and cutting is not simply a matter of carbohydrate manipulation. And in my opinion, for what that is worth, the daily requirements for carbohydrates is grossly overstated in current bodybuilding literature. You do not need an massive surplus of carbohydrates to gain muscle.
Their are a lot of mechanisms at play in trying to change one’s body composition. A 5000+ calorie diet may help the original poster gain muscle, but I can guarantee on a mix like that you are recommending they will end up losing the aesthetics that they have already trained for. I don’t mean to be argumentative but I don’t think your approach is appropriate in light of the original post.
Cheers,
Sasha
Hey Sasha,
Just one more quick question I had…would you rather opt for the meal with lots of fruit and lean protein on their own; or rather one with a decent (aka one) serving of fruit, protein and healthy fats?
Cheers,
X
[quote]xenithon wrote:
Hey Sasha,
Just one more quick question I had…would you rather opt for the meal with lots of fruit and lean protein on their own; or rather one with a decent (aka one) serving of fruit, protein and healthy fats?
Cheers,
X[/quote]
X,
If this meal were not around the pre/post workout period I would look for a meal that had a good source of lean protein, some high fibre vegetable, a source of monounsaturates (nuts), polyunsaturates (fish oil) and some saturates (animal fats).
Don’t worry so much about mixing these types of carbohydrates and fats together, it isn’t the same as if the carbohydrate source is from a starchy base.
Cheers,
Sasha
Much appreciated once again. I have but one more question (on a slightly different topic): milk in the preworkout shake. Just wanted to get your take on it - having either milk or water in that preworkout shake 25-30 minutes prior to the workout - since most threads I come across end up being a spray of insults regarding milk and dairy altogether…in other words…it breaks down into a thread full of very little pertinent info quite quickly.
Cheers,
X