I have gleaned a lot of info from this thread and I want to thank everyone involved! I would purchase the book, but it sounds like a lot of things have changed.
Does anyone know of a place I could find a consolidated list of the recommendations for CBL? Basically, what is in the book that I should ignore/ do differently?
Any info would be much appreciated!
Where is the CBL 2.0 book?
Hi guys. been reading randomly posts on this forum, dont have time reading all posts you guys wrote, but on the basis of page number on this topic I see lot of you guys have experience with CBL. I would really appreciate if some of you could give me answer to few questions. First, let assume that I need to ingest 300 g of carbs, is there any rule of thumb Kiefer suggests in how many meals should one consume that amount? Would it be ok to consume it in one meal (if possible)?
I am asking this because I did IF protocols with 3 meals a day eating a lot of carbs in one sitting and after doing bloodwork after few months I had elevated LDL-a lot. I actually know that I did also some other things wrong so I cannot be sure if its due to large amount of carb in meals. The second question would be when should last meal be eaten, concerning going to bed? 2 h before going to bed?. and the last thing would be concerning BCAA pulsing throughout the day.
As some of you may know, there was an article here on T Nation saying that you can maximize protein synthesis with BCAA pulsing every 2,5 hours after a meal. I think 3 g of leuceine will probably wont have so much influence on insulin spike and interfering with fat burning mode, but thats just my thought. Thank you for your time.
Updates? Anyone still doing this?
After a 4 year hiatus from lifting and eating properly. (lifted hardcore for about 6yrs) I’m back at it. Initially I just wanted to lose a bunch of weight. Went from 246lb (feb-20-14) to 234 in a month (mar-20-14). I ultimately got down to 229 but gained some back during my creatine load.
I Started cbl on March 30 weight of 233. I only did a week initiation phase since I was eating low gi already. I went back down to 229 during the first week, then back up a little once I began backloading. I hover right around 230lbs now (may-5-14). Doing cbl to recomp. I’m around 22-23% bf. Strength is coming back quick, went from a 225x4bench to 225x11. Adding a rep about every week. 2weeks ago I was barely 275x2 now 275x3 easier. Gotta love muscle memory.
Anyway, I guess cbl is working, but maybe anything would work for me this early in. I try to workout 5 or 6pm but sometimes it gets pushed later like 8pm. Then I find it very hard to stuff in 2000 calories before bed. I also feel I’m not eating enough on non workout days and prior to my load. For instance:
8am: wake up
10:30: keifer coffee
1pm. 3eggs 2bacon
5 pm. 5ounce brisket, veggies
630 pm keifer coffee
7pm -9pm workout
9:15pm. 600calorie pws (60g protein, 50g carbs)
From then on I’m lucky to get a total of 200or 300 g of carbs, plus I have to get another 80grams protein at that time…I feel uncomfortably full. Pizza, rice w cinnamon sugar and raisins, turnovers, dextrose, koalachies. I have like 700 calories the first 13hrs of the day. Then 2200calories in 3 or 4hrs. Plus I have to wake up at 4am to take a piss…
On non workout days, 1or2 days a week I only end up with 1500 to 1700calories per day and struggle to get my protein in. I find myself cramming 100grams of protein before bed. I’m trying to burn fat while at least maintaining muscle, if not gain. I don’t really feel super hungry during the day, so I’m not sure if I should make myself eat more during the first portion of the day or continue like I am. I think working out at 4 would be better, but that’s not always possible.
Updates? Anyone still doing this?
After a 4 year hiatus from lifting and eating properly. (lifted hardcore for about 6yrs) I’m back at it. Initially I just wanted to lose a bunch of weight. Went from 246lb (feb-20-14) to 234 in a month (mar-20-14). I ultimately got down to 229 but gained some back during my creatine load.
I Started cbl on March 30 weight of 233. I only did a week initiation phase since I was eating low gi already. I went back down to 229 during the first week, then back up a little once I began backloading. I hover right around 230lbs now (may-5-14). Doing cbl to recomp. I’m around 22-23% bf. Strength is coming back quick, went from a 225x4bench to 225x11. Adding a rep about every week. 2weeks ago I was barely 275x2 now 275x3 easier. Gotta love muscle memory.
Anyway, I guess cbl is working, but maybe anything would work for me this early in. I try to workout 5 or 6pm but sometimes it gets pushed later like 8pm. Then I find it very hard to stuff in 2000 calories before bed. I also feel I’m not eating enough on non workout days and prior to my load. For instance:
8am: wake up
10:30: keifer coffee
1pm. 3eggs 2bacon
5 pm. 5ounce brisket, veggies
630 pm keifer coffee
7pm -9pm workout
9:15pm. 600calorie pws (60g protein, 50g carbs)
From then on I’m lucky to get a total of 200or 300 g of carbs, plus I have to get another 80grams protein at that time…I feel uncomfortably full. Pizza, rice w cinnamon sugar and raisins, turnovers, dextrose, koalachies. I have like 700 calories the first 13hrs of the day. Then 2200calories in 3 or 4hrs. Plus I have to wake up at 4am to take a piss…
On non workout days, 1or2 days a week I only end up with 1500 to 1700calories per day and struggle to get my protein in. I find myself cramming 100grams of protein before bed. I’m trying to burn fat while at least maintaining muscle, if not gain. I don’t really feel super hungry during the day, so I’m not sure if I should make myself eat more during the first portion of the day or continue like I am. I think working out at 4 would be better, but that’s not always possible.
Been CBL since New Years 2013…I am 22 about 6’1" and roughly 205lbs…
Based on work schedule and location of my gym (Total performance Sports in Everett, MA) I lift around 2:30 - 3:00 PM. Been trying out the new SURGE and love the improvement in workout recovery and hydration (its much tougher to remain hydrated all day without carbs, especially with a manual labor job like landscaping). I’m trying to drink the surge 10-15 mins into my workout, as per Kiefer’s recommendation, but sometimes a big lunch or dehydration forces me to drink as I am walking into the gym. Then depending on time I will have another protein meal with lower (but still some) fat or just wait til about 4:30 or so and have a shot of Biotest leucine.
Lifting: really trying to work on Oly lifts as a hobby, just love the technical aspects of it. follow Wendler’s 5/3/1 with Press, Deadlift, Bench, and Front Squat (been following for 5.5 months now).Also currently in the middle of Bret Contreras’ 30-Day Glute Challenge ( a lot on my plate but the SURGE is helping a lot).
So the day looks like this (not recommending at all but just posting MY day):
6:00 AM : Water to catch up with hydration, 2 Alpha Male, Big scoop coconut oil
6:30 AM : Medium hot or iced coffee, cream/2 Splenda
10:45 AM: Spike (if working out at lunch ONLY)
11:30 Lunchtime lift (occasional) : Leftover meat and cheese, sometimes add
olive oil and veggies
1:30 PM Spike, if I haven’t already downed it
2:30/3:00 PM : Lift, 1 - 1.5 scoops SURGE
4:30: Protein + little fat, but more often 1 scoop leucine with 2 Alpha Male
5:00 - roughly 11:00 PM: Plenty of simple carbs and moderate whole protein
Dinner is usually some type of meat like chicken, beef, burgers, cold cuts, fish, etc. I try to eat white rice, potatoes, and sweet potatoes if possible, sometimes just a huge bowl of Cocoa/Fruity Pebbles. Baked Lays, Poptarts,pretzels, bagels, white bread, even cookies later at night are fair game. I’ll usually throw in another scoop of leucine and creatine in a later shake. I find the creatine really amplifies the fullness/late night pump from the carbs and water. I eat a lot of low fat cottage cheese before bed (usually a pound or so) to fill protein macros.
Not ideal but getting stronger. Bodyweight has fluctuated from 200-210 over the last year and a half, until I got sick about a week ago and lost ten lbs which i was unhappy about. Looking for mass right now, so eating as much as I can, but I get full often. So far the addition of SURGE & Alpha Male helping size and strength gains! Anyways would like to hear other people’s successes/stories, I love CBL!!
Really enjoyed going through this thread as I myself am on week 4 of CBL.
So far I really enjoy CBL. I came from a three or four meal per day plan – carbs at every meal, counting calories, etc. I didn’t have stable energy and often felt bloated. Was avoiding what are considered common food allergies (gluten/gliadin, fodmaps, dairy, etcetera, etcetera) and still the problems persisted.
Going low carb immediately abated the issues. Well, for the first 4 days or so and then I felt awful. Body and brain not accustomed to low carb yet?
Anyway, I did my first backload on the night of day 5. A burger and fries, pancakes, and so on. Woke up the next morning feeling incredible. Had some gut issues the first part of the day but energy levels were very high. I have since fine-tuned my backloads to avoid gluten/gliadin and the digestive problems are gone.
I am amazed at how much food I’m putting down on my backloads haha. And it seems the dirtier the food, the better I look.
I train 5 days per week on a bodypart split. I’m 29, 5’9" and 175 pounds. I know, I know – 175, pathetic. I was on a stay really slim looking kick for awhile.
Anyway, this is my 4 week review. I will continue to post and definitely hope we can spark this thread once again.
Nice to see others posting…I’d love to reignite the forum here as I never really liked the interaction on the DH/athlete forums on Kiefer’s page.
[quote]mlad3nk0 wrote:
Hi guys. been reading randomly posts on this forum, dont have time reading all posts you guys wrote, but on the basis of page number on this topic I see lot of you guys have experience with CBL. I would really appreciate if some of you could give me answer to few questions. First, let assume that I need to ingest 300 g of carbs, is there any rule of thumb Kiefer suggests in how many meals should one consume that amount? Would it be ok to consume it in one meal (if possible)?
I am asking this because I did IF protocols with 3 meals a day eating a lot of carbs in one sitting and after doing bloodwork after few months I had elevated LDL-a lot. I actually know that I did also some other things wrong so I cannot be sure if its due to large amount of carb in meals. The second question would be when should last meal be eaten, concerning going to bed? 2 h before going to bed?. and the last thing would be concerning BCAA pulsing throughout the day.
As some of you may know, there was an article here on T Nation saying that you can maximize protein synthesis with BCAA pulsing every 2,5 hours after a meal. I think 3 g of leuceine will probably wont have so much influence on insulin spike and interfering with fat burning mode, but thats just my thought. Thank you for your time.[/quote]
1&2) As far as I know, meal timing is up for preference. If you are more concerned with fat burning (and therefore nighttime GH release) then I’d say last CARB meal an hour or two before bed. Protein and a little fat shouldn’t be an issue right before bed. Also, if you train late and have to fit in all your carbs in an hour or two, I’d just slam the carbs and go to bed without worrying.
3)I’d stay away from protein pulses during the day. Leucine definitely spikes insulin, and I’m sure the BCAAs could have a similar effect, so skip them until intra- or postworkout. Eat fats and protein in a 1:1 ratio in the firs part of the day and I wouldn’t worry about muscle protein synthesis. CBL is designed to maximize muscle building/retention efficiency while fat burning becomes inefficient (more fat is wasted as heat).
[quote]
On non workout days, 1or2 days a week I only end up with 1500 to 1700calories per day and struggle to get my protein in. I find myself cramming 100grams of protein before bed. I’m trying to burn fat while at least maintaining muscle, if not gain. I don’t really feel super hungry during the day, so I’m not sure if I should make myself eat more during the first portion of the day or continue like I am. I think working out at 4 would be better, but that’s not always possible. [/quote]
I often find I am not hungry during the day either, unless I am working or being physically active. If muscle gain/maintenance (or slight loss) of bodyfat is the goal, Kiefer recommends eating fats and proteins in the first half of the day. Probably will fill you up but much more food is necessary for gain, even in the morning.
If fat loss/muscle retention is main goal, then you can probably go with just coconut oil for the first part of the day until workout to keep you from going catabolic. You will probably be much hungrier at night, which may help with getting the necessary food postworkout.
I find that workout supps like Surge help me get in a bunch of muscle building nutrients without the same fullness factor. Getting enough protein is always tough, but I find that low fat cottage cheese is a great addition. Whey protein would probably help too. Hope this helps!
Hey Frauls, how long have you been doing CBL? What kind of progress have you seen? Any favorite aspects to the diet yet?
My favorite perk thus far has been increased strength workout to workout. Kiefer calls this the Hulk Effect. At first I was skeptical, attributing the increased strength to potentially more food intake (I backload a ton of food). But I do think there is something more to it as I feel really sharp during the day while low carbing. Obviously some confounding factors here but I am pleased nonetheless.
Also, I am up 2 pounds yet noticeably leaner. As the Fasting Twins would say – “It looks like the diet stripped the fat off my body and stuffed it into my muscles!” In particular, it looks like I’m losing weight from my stomach and love handle area. I started fairly lean too, so very happy with this.
[quote]sd_law wrote:
Hey Frauls, how long have you been doing CBL? What kind of progress have you seen? Any favorite aspects to the diet yet?
My favorite perk thus far has been increased strength workout to workout. Kiefer calls this the Hulk Effect. At first I was skeptical, attributing the increased strength to potentially more food intake (I backload a ton of food). But I do think there is something more to it as I feel really sharp during the day while low carbing. Obviously some confounding factors here but I am pleased nonetheless.
Also, I am up 2 pounds yet noticeably leaner. As the Fasting Twins would say – “It looks like the diet stripped the fat off my body and stuffed it into my muscles!” In particular, it looks like I’m losing weight from my stomach and love handle area. I started fairly lean too, so very happy with this.[/quote]
Glad to hear some success on your end!
I have been back-loading consistently for a year and 9 months now, and I have been gaining mostly strength, until a few weeks ago when I decided to eat more for mass. No fat gain that I can notice, despite some very dirty binges, haha. My favorite part is that it works well with my psychological profile. I love having not to eat breakfast and a small lunch,then inhaling food at dinner. I have found over the years that tons of food in the morning/early day slow me down. I also love the mental clarity during the day and DEFINITELY feel a difference in workout strength and performance. As a reference, I mistakenly ordered a fried (instead of grilled) buffalo chicken salad. Not too many carbs considering the amount in my backloads, but enough to make a world’s difference in my workout. Felt sluggish, weak, and even my endurance was shot.
Another aspect I love are the health benefits from the temporary ketogenic state. Too many health changes to mention at once, but there is definitely some hard evidence from Kiefer and associates on his website and especially in his podcasts/radio show. Great outlook for the future in regards to health and performance.
Very cool, Frauls. I definitely notice less joint and muscular pain and soreness on CBL. Makes me wonder about the anti-inflammatory properties of a low carb, high fat diet.
I have to admit that it was initially difficult for me to accept eating higher fat food and that I was having some degree of compensatory guilt, extending my morning fasts a little longer. This last week, however, I’ve embraced eating more fat and I feel terrific.
Last night I trained at 6 pm. Got home at 7:30 pm and slammed 60 grams of whey protein, a package of corn pasta (200 grams of carbs) with a creamy vodka tomato sauce, and a full container of Dreyers slow-churned ice cream. I felt full but not bloated (used to always feel bloated from carbs). Woke up jacked. I actually laughed outloud.
Yeah, I’ve found that it is very hard to go overboard, especially when training 5+ days per week and waiting til 5 or 6pm to load up.
Critique my backload please, your advice/opinion is appreciated
First off all my stats:
19 years old, 5 feet 9, 182 pounds, 10.5% body fat. I train x6 times a week, cardio x4 times a week
8-9 am Meal 1: 2 whole omega-3 eggs, 4 egg whites, asparagus spears,15 g cacao nibs, 3g fish oil
11:30-12 pm Meal 2: 140g extra lean ground beef with broccoli , 1g fish oil
2 pm Meal 3: 84g chicken breast, 28g brazilian nuts , 1g fish oil
3:30 pm Meal 4: 84g chicken breast, 28g almonds (PRE WORKOUT) ,1g fish oil
7-7:30 pm Post workout shake: 1 scoop diesel protein (111 cal, 0.1f, 0.5c, 27g p), 1 scoop vitargo (35g carbs), 5g creatine , bcaas
1 hour after my post wo shake: 98g chicken, 400g red potato (Skinless), 90g white basmati rice(uncooked)
2 hours after my post workout meal: 8 egg whites, 66g of cream of wheat
Calories: 2504 (221g protein, 247g carbs, 70g fats exluding fish oil)
***I was on a 2000 calorie diet for a couple weeks now, would you gradually increase my carbs post workout or do it this way and would Empty stomach cardio (Low intensity) be better then HIIT post workout ?
***How many times a week should I carb backload if I want to gain some size in your opinion? Everyday I train?
Your feedback will be appreciated,
Thank you
So I reckon your goal is fat loss.
That being said, your diet seems fine as is. Given your age, size and activity level, I believe 2500 calories should have you in a deficit. If fat loss stalls, consider backloading with a LOT more carbs on one or two evenings post-training per week (separated by 3-4 days).
I prefer HIIT cardio over steady state. That being said, I sometimes find HIIT hard to do routinely when I train hard and with a lot of volume. So if you can’t do HIIT, steady state is a fair way to up your caloric expenditure.
As for fasted cardio, there is evidence for and against it. I personally don’t have the time or interest to wake up and do cardio. I believe you will have many of the same benefits in doing cardio post-training.
As for backloading to gain mass, absolutely backload every night on training days. You will need to up your carbs and overall calorie level. Some people like to monitor their numbers more carefully (e.g., setting calories at 18x or 20x bodyweight), I would simply advise you just increase your food intake in your backloads and eat to satiety during the low carb portions of the day. You may also consider backloading on off days, but if you do, I would advise keeping these lower in carbs and calories (i.e., stick to rice, potatoes, etcetera).
[quote]sd_law wrote:
So I reckon your goal is fat loss.
That being said, your diet seems fine as is. Given your age, size and activity level, I believe 2500 calories should have you in a deficit. If fat loss stalls, consider backloading with a LOT more carbs on one or two evenings post-training per week (separated by 3-4 days).
I prefer HIIT cardio over steady state. That being said, I sometimes find HIIT hard to do routinely when I train hard and with a lot of volume. So if you can’t do HIIT, steady state is a fair way to up your caloric expenditure.
As for fasted cardio, there is evidence for and against it. I personally don’t have the time or interest to wake up and do cardio. I believe you will have many of the same benefits in doing cardio post-training.[/quote]
I train x6 times a week and usually do cardio x4 times a week, how many times a week would you backload exactly ? 6 or only 4( the days were i do cardio also) ?
If you train with weights 6x per week, I would backload on each of these days.
You could also consider reducing the number of backloads as a way of keeping your carb and calorie levels lower. You may run into difficulty maintaining your training volume though. You may need to experiment.
Can anyone suggest how I should do CBL if I start training at 7:30 at night? If I train at 1, then sometimes I can’t finish my workout and I don’t like that. I know in the book Kiefer suggests a carb+fat+protein meal at around 5:30 at night if training this late. My main problem is breakfast since I train so late. Should I skip breakfast and eat my first meal at noon if I train so late? I’m trying to do density bulking.
Hey guys, I have a question : my Post workout shakes consist of a 1:2 ratio : 30g protein , 60g carbs of gatorade powder. I Finish training around 7 30- 7 45 PM , I get my meal in at 8 45 PM. My question is, Is it too much to consume a meal of 200g carbs in one sitting ? Example : 5oz chicken, 8 egg whites, 400g red potato (Skinless Around 70g carbs), 90g of white basmati rice uncooked (Around 75g carbs) and white greek pita (60g carbs) . My carbs are ‘‘Clean’’ as you can see but are pretty much very high GL which is to try to make sure that my glucose levels are back to normal before bed (Around 11pm ) Let me know your opinion thank you!