hey guys what is the difference between carb backloading strength accumulator and carb backloading density bulk?? i have the book but it doesnt really say unless i have missed it :S
Glad there’s a thread here covering CBL!! I’ve just started the Prep Phase for CBL after purchasing the book a few weeks back (very busy, so my reading of it has been a bit disjointed) and have a couple of questions regarding what to do after finishing prep. These are potentially already covered in the book, but as I said, with taking so long to read it, I’ll likely have read over them but forgotten by now. Firstly, for Strength Accumulation, how do you determine carb intake??
The tables at the back give approximations for baseline carbs, which are for weight maintenance, so how do you determine carbs for fat loss? Is it simply a case of using the other tables supplied which dictate how many carb meals to eat based on appearance and training performance? Or some other method? Secondly, with regards to carb intake following training. I’m limited to training around 1pm or 2pm; following training (for SA protocol,) is my carb intake window more limited than for the DB protocol? Following the meal plan listed for training at 2pm, I take my shake with carbs following training, eat a protein and low-carb meal shortly after, then ‘splurge’ around 2 hours after this meal (which would be about 6pm.)
However, I could’ve sworn I saw someone mention a shorter carb intake timeframe following training for SA purposes, in which case the meal plans listed by Kiefer would likely suit the DB protocol (at least for that 1pm/2pm training time.) Or perhaps I’ve overlooked something really basic? Appreciate any input.
About to complete my 10 day carb clense and was wondering if it would to be ok to take a prework out supp - MP Assault prior to working out? It has 9 grams of carbs in it.
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
hey guys what is the difference between carb backloading strength accumulator and carb backloading density bulk?? i have the book but it doesnt really say unless i have missed it :S [/quote]
On strength accumulation you only backload the days you train. Density bulk you backload everyday, which i think is a receipe for fat gain. Unless carbs are greatly reduced on non-training days.
[quote]watermelon_2001 wrote:
The tables at the back give approximations for baseline carbs, which are for weight maintenance, so how do you determine carbs for fat loss? Is it simply a case of using the other tables supplied which dictate how many carb meals to eat based on appearance and training performance? Or some other method? Secondly, with regards to carb intake following training. I’m limited to training around 1pm or 2pm; following training (for SA protocol,) is my carb intake window more limited than for the DB protocol? Following the meal plan listed for training at 2pm, I take my shake with carbs following training, eat a protein and low-carb meal shortly after, then ‘splurge’ around 2 hours after this meal (which would be about 6pm.)
[/quote]
I cant remember anything in the book about backloading windows differing between SA & DB, could be wrong though. As far as amount of carbs, the only way i found the right amount was through trial and error. For me 95kg @ 12% bf i have found 300-400g works when trying to add muscle, anymore & i get fat. Just set a number for a week or so and monitor your body comp.
Cant help with that training time as i never train then. I can remember Kiefer saying that it was the worst time to train though. Doesnt help much i know.
Ahh I see thanks, I’m doing db atm I’m 140lbs and 5foot 8inches, I train mon- fri and have sat and sun off so I been doing this…
Monday - chest- 180p, 85f and 250c
Tuesday - back - 180p, 85f and 250c
Wednesday - arms - 175p, 85f and 200c
Thursday - shoulders- 175p, 85f, 200c
Friday - legs - 180p 100f, 300c
Sat and sun - 140p, 85f and 100c
How does that sound??
Can i drink sugar free energy drinks during the low carb fase of the day and on rest days?
Thank you
[quote]Thms wrote:
Can i drink sugar free energy drinks during the low carb fase of the day and on rest days?
Thank you[/quote]
It isn’t recommended because it still causes a bit of an insulin response (although quite minimal). I do every now and then and try to buffer it with protein/fat. Doesn’t seem to affect things too much.
Does anyone train twice a day while using this plan? I usually do a lighter O-lift session first thing in the morning, with another later in the afternoon, going heavier. Then on days I don’t lift, some kind of fitness early in the morning as well. Would I just save the carbs until after my second lifting session?
Started CBL and not really leaning out as much as I’d like. Here’s my diet
Wake 0415 black coffee cream.
0700 accel shake
0815 1cup egg whites and two sausage patties.
1100 8oz chicken or 80/20 beef, kale salad, quest bar
1415 5oz beef and raw Brock
1600 40g almonds workout at 1645
1800 ON recovery 2:1:1 15 mins later 1.5 scoops whey isolate.
1900 two bowls honey nut cheerios and skim milk
2100 casein shake
Workout is usually 20 min run then list. 6x a week. Mix between heavy lifts and high volume. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Spidey seems to know about cbl quite well if he could chime in. My stats are 6’ 190 maybe 12% bf trying to get my abs to show… If u need the caloric breakdown I can post it. Trying to stay at 40/40/20 not sure I’d that’s appropriate with cbl
[quote]fishtaco254 wrote:
Started CBL and not really leaning out as much as I’d like. Here’s my diet
Wake 0415 black coffee cream.
0700 accel shake
0815 1cup egg whites and two sausage patties.
1100 8oz chicken or 80/20 beef, kale salad, quest bar
1415 5oz beef and raw Brock
1600 40g almonds workout at 1645
1800 ON recovery 2:1:1 15 mins later 1.5 scoops whey isolate.
1900 two bowls honey nut cheerios and skim milk
2100 casein shake
Workout is usually 20 min run then list. 6x a week. Mix between heavy lifts and high volume. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Spidey seems to know about cbl quite well if he could chime in. My stats are 6’ 190 maybe 12% bf trying to get my abs to show… If u need the caloric breakdown I can post it. Trying to stay at 40/40/20 not sure I’d that’s appropriate with cbl[/quote]
Caloric breakdown would be nice, if you could provide that. If your goal is fat loss, you’re probably going to want to do the Strength Accumulation protocol. So on off days, go ultra-low carb.
I would suggest not just eating egg whites, but whole eggs in your 3rd meal. Kiefer suggest in the low carb portion of the day, you eat 1g of fat for every 1g of protein you eat. So I would start there at least. Also, you’re backload is quite ‘small’.
If your goal is strictly fat loss, you may want something kind of like Carb-Nite. If you’re okay with a slower recomp, stick with CBL. If you’re going to do a recomp though, you’re going to have to adjust things, learn your body, which may not be as ‘fast’, but will kind of help you in the long run IMO.
1tbsp Cream - 50 cals 5f
1cup egg whites 125 cals 25p
Sausage patties - 280cals 26f 10p
12oz chicken - 330cals 81p 3f
5oz burger -350cals 28f 24p
2:1:1 - 210cals 35c 17p
Whey - 140cals 30p
Raisin bran - 380cals 98c 10p 2f
Skim milk - 172cals 24c 17p
Casein - 140cals 30p
Almonds - 210 20f 8p
Quest bar - 170cals 20p 6f 4c
Totals are about 2600 cals 92f 270p 205c (45g fiber so 160g net)
Ok and my goals are recomp for sure. Not a fan of CN. I felt like when I did a big back load for a week I put on fat… Should I give it longer than a week to work its magic? Also cut the fat a bit because I’m paranoid of putting on fat. I’m also very carb sensitive which is why the back load was “small” thoughts? Thanks
[quote]fishtaco254 wrote:
1tbsp Cream - 50 cals 5f
1cup egg whites 125 cals 25p
Sausage patties - 280cals 26f 10p
12oz chicken - 330cals 81p 3f
5oz burger -350cals 28f 24p
2:1:1 - 210cals 35c 17p
Whey - 140cals 30p
Raisin bran - 380cals 98c 10p 2f
Skim milk - 172cals 24c 17p
Casein - 140cals 30p
Almonds - 210 20f 8p
Quest bar - 170cals 20p 6f 4c
Totals are about 2600 cals 92f 270p 205c (45g fiber so 160g net)
Ok and my goals are recomp for sure. Not a fan of CN. I felt like when I did a big back load for a week I put on fat… Should I give it longer than a week to work its magic? Also cut the fat a bit because I’m paranoid of putting on fat. I’m also very carb sensitive which is why the back load was “small” thoughts? Thanks
[/quote]
Yeah if you’ve only did this for a week, then you need to give it some times. If you’re following CBL, then I suggest you adjust your macros.
1g/lb of BW Protein
.45g/lb of BW Fat
Carbs, you have a few options. You can use the chart in teh back of the book. Personally, I’d start at 1.5g/lb of BW for Carbs, and slowly try to ‘increase’ that week by week, until you find that sweet spot, where you wake up fool, while looking leaner (I’m talking net carbs here)
So if you’re 190, I’d adjust macros to
190g P
285g C
85g F
I know it’s a big change, and I was someone who was VERY carbophobic before using CBL. But give it some time to work.
Alright cool, I’m finishing up an epi cycle right now so I’m gonna keep the protein high. But after that I’ll give this macro set a go. Basically less fat and less protein, didnt see that coming lol.BTW before this episode cycle I was 178 and I’m 4 weeks in.
For my back load is cereal OK? That’s my favorite thing to eat so yea. Also as far as timing do I want to keep my fats to the beginning of the day before my workout/load? I don’t have a lot of time to slam carbs either. Typically workout is 6-7ish and sleep by 9:30
[quote]fishtaco254 wrote:
Alright cool, I’m finishing up an epi cycle right now so I’m gonna keep the protein high. But after that I’ll give this macro set a go. BTW before this episode cycle I was 178 and I’m 4 weeks in.
For my back load is cereal OK? That’s my favorite thing to eat so yea. Also as far as timing do I want to keep my fats to the beginning of the day before my workout/load? I don’t have a lot of time to slam carbs either. Typically workout is 6-7ish and sleep by 9:30[/quote]
Cereal is fine, just more high GI stuff, not like fiber one or something. lol
Yeah mostly fats in the day with protein, but you can have some fats in the backload, some people like that.
If you have only a small time for the backload, you may wanna try some pre-wo and intra-WO carbs once your carb intake gets higher. Kiefer talks about the protocol for ‘late night’ lifting, so you can look at that if ya want.
Yea frosted flakes and honey nut cheerios. I thought present workout carbs were a no no? If u think intra would help then I’ll definitely give it a shot. Is glycomaize a good high g.I. carb supplement? And I’m adding leucine as soon as it comes in
[quote]fishtaco254 wrote:
Yea frosted flakes and honey nut cheerios. I thought present workout carbs were a no no? If u think intra would help then I’ll definitely give it a shot. Is glycomaize a good high g.I. carb supplement? And I’m adding leucine as soon as it comes in[/quote]
You’ve kind to figure out what works for you. Know a guy on here named Ryan who lifts in the morning on an empty stomach, does a TON of volume, and backloads at night fine.
Paul Carter (Has a lifting blog) uses pre-intra-and post workout carbs, to help him through the volume.
When I was lifting for strength/PL style, I was fine with no carbs, but as I moved to more Mountain Dog style workouts I needed those carbs.
And if you’re lifting at night, you NEED to get your carbs in regardless. If you have to take in some intra-WO carbs or something to hit your numbers, so be it.
I’d make sure whatever carbs you use around your workout, just make sure they feel good on your stomach and don’t make you sleepy lol
Haha OK cool. Well I have a wrench to throw in this plan. Just found out I’m going to be working nights… 3:30pm to 2a.m. theoretically I can lift after work… Should I do that or lift a.m. fasted? Thanks a lot for the macros help. And its 5g creatine pre workout and 5g leucine post correct? And hydro whey intra? Just trying to shred up while not losing mass
[quote]fishtaco254 wrote:
Haha OK cool. Well I have a wrench to throw in this plan. Just found out I’m going to be working nights… 3:30pm to 2a.m. theoretically I can lift after work… Should I do that or lift a.m. fasted? Thanks a lot for the macros help. And its 5g creatine pre workout and 5g leucine post correct? And hydro whey intra? Just trying to shred up while not losing mass[/quote]
The peri-wo stuff looks solid, but icing on the cake. Hitting every day macros is what’s most important.
Lifting in the morning you can do a few options. You could just do it fasted other then the peri-wo stuff you have there. I use to drink so coffee, whey, and coconut oil before lifting in the AM. You could eat a meal before, etc. It’s really up to you, and what’s going to allow you to feel the best, perform the best, and be somewhat convenient.
I can lift fasted no problem or lift at 3a.m. either way. If I lift a.m. then do I take the high g.I. carbs post workout for maybe an hour or two after then go back to low carb? And leucine post workout and creatine before? but my cardio is better with a carb source for sure. I’ll stay on those macros for sure and bump up my cardio to see how shredded I can get in 4 weeks