Yeah I might get this one now then I can always get the 2.0 when it comes out if need be
Do I have to do the 5day carb deload or can I go straight into it?
Ok guys I have brought the book and can’t wait to get started however I have a few questions first ’
1- on the prep phase I do 5 days low carb and on the evening of the 6thday I start my carb backload?
2- on the prep phase it doesn’t state how much protein and fat to have can someone give me an idea?
3- as I am bulking and I’m 150lbs atm it says I should consume around 500g carbs is this right as that seems a lot?
Think I have found the ulc part basicaly I’m 150lbs and wanting to bulk so on apendix D I look at the 150lbs part and it says to eat 27g fat and over 140g proteing so I do that for 5 days and measure how much weight I lost then I use the apendix C chart to work out the carbs I need for the evening??
Right I think I have got my prep phase sorted out so this is what I’m going to do for the 5days on ulc…
7am - coffee and cream
9am - coffee and cream
11:30am - 2 bacon and 3eggs
3 - chicken breast and brocolli
7 - rump steak and brocolli
10 - 40g full fat cheese
This works out to 1255cals 137p. 70f. 12c
How does that sound is there any changes I should make? Bearing in mind I will be looking to bulk on my cbl and I’m currently at 150lbs
Ok bro, you asked a ton of questions lol. So I’ll try to address them, but SERIOUSLY, Keifer has said he’s constantly changing and altering the method to make it more effective. So some of the charts and shit in the back aren’t really his ‘go to’ any more. I’ll just list somethings that I think can help ya:
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Raise your fats on the ULC prep phases, and keep them higher on ULC portions of the days you eventually backload on. Keifer suggests trying to get roughly a 1:1 ratio in grams, like I’ve said (maybe even higher fats then that on the prep phase). Fuck that chart lol.
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I didn’t do the prep phase, because he said it’s optional, but some claim you get better results doing it. Though, if you’re using it to bulk, I’ll doubt it’ll matter all too much.
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Think about adding some VCO to your coffee, it’s a good way to add some fats to the ULC parts and VCO really helps with the mental fog one can get from not ingesting carbs IME (MCT oil is good too I’ve heard).
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500g of carbs on the chart is suppose to be an indicator of your carb ‘ceiling’. It’s not a suggestion to be eaten everyday, but I personally tried to start in that range, and then taper down until I found I woke-up not bloated but full. I think that’s a good way to find your ‘sweet spot’.
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If you’re planning to bulk, there’s no reason for your calories to be that low, even in the ULC prep phase. You’re 150, not 50 lbs. Calories still matter. Most often maintenance level calories are your BW x 15. 150 x 15 is 2250 kcal. You should at LEAST be eating in that range during the prep phase. You want to see how much weight you lose because of glycogen, not crash dieting lol.
Cheers spidey I appreciate the information… Its a lot to take in lol so what I should do is really is go onto carb backloading and not worry about the prep phase because I am going to bulk and also I have relatively low body fat anyways ( visible abs)
With the ulc portion of the day aim for around 150g of protein and 150g fat?? Then with the carbs in the evening it will ne trial and error basically maybe try 250 - 300g carbs and go from there??
Also with the post workout shake I have been told that myprotein recovery xs is ideal for this part as it has around 30g protein and 50g carbs
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
Cheers spidey I appreciate the information… Its a lot to take in lol so what I should do is really is go onto carb backloading and not worry about the prep phase because I am going to bulk and also I have relatively low body fat anyways ( visible abs)
With the ulc portion of the day aim for around 150g of protein and 150g fat?? Then with the carbs in the evening it will ne trial and error basically maybe try 250 - 300g carbs and go from there??
Also with the post workout shake I have been told that myprotein recovery xs is ideal for this part as it has around 30g protein and 50g carbs
[/quote]
Your a low BF? If so, yeah, I think prep phase isn’t necessary.
Haha no man. In the ULC portion of the day, you likely want a 1:1 ratio of fat to protein, but not necessarily your ENTIRE DAILY protein intake. So I wouldn’t eat 150g of Protein in the ULC portion. If I were you, I’d just eat, ya know, 50-75g of your protein intake of the day durig the ULC portion of the day (and eat 50-75g of fat with it). Then once you start backloading, eat the rest of your protein in your backload, PWO and such. Does that make sense? It’s not a 1:1 ratio of fat and protein for the DAY, just you match fats with protein, gram for gram, with meals during the ULC portion.
And really any source of carbs and protein will be solid PWO.
Also, go search around on Keifer’s website on the forums. Lots of help there. Lot’s of advice Keifer gives that’s not yet in the book.
Oh yeah I get you so if I was to do the prep phase then it would more likely be 1:1 for the day but if I go straight into it then get 1:1 of protein and fat but not the full dose in the start of the day…
So as you said when I do the backload I would do an estimate of roughly 150g protein daily but maybe consume around 75g p for the ulc along with the same amount of fat then workout and straight after have a serving of whey say about 30g of protein and then maybe around 50g or carbs be it from dextrose or two bananas etc. Then I start to backload with the carbs and protein so I was thinking for a backload day something like this…
Lean beef, white rice or potatoes then few hours later some oreos or pop tarts then before bed some fruity pebbles?
Am I on the right lines now lol
Yeah I will give them forums a look over and I have been watching kiefers youtube videos which have helped
Exactly my man. I REALLY hammered the sweet initially, especially when trying to see where my ‘wall’ was. So go for it when trying to get in your 500g of carbs. But as you taper down (it’s unlikely you’ll be able to consistently eat 500g of carbs every day and not feel bloated and wake-up super tight and stuff) try to make sure you’re eating enough ‘whole’ foods that you’re getting in some micro-nutrients. You’ll feel better that way.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking like 500g of carbs in a fairly small period of time is a lot to get in so it may have to be the occasional sweet thing I was thinking could I have things like these to help ramp my carbs up …
Home made banana cake/bread
Krispy kreme doughnut
Croissants and chocolate croissants
Costco pastries like danish whirls
So what I will do is a 5 day prep phase to kick things of going for a 1:1 fat and protein daily ratio then on the 6th day I’ll start my backloading and start with around 300g carbs keeping fat a little lower when ingesting the carb portion of the day?
I’m planning for the majority of my backloads to be revolved around the “cleaner carbs” like white rice, gluten free pasta, potatoes and white bread then having the more sweeter “bad” stuff in the evening
Good luck with it creasey. I found CBL SA excellent for adding lean muscle. Just be careful if you choose CNS for fatloss though. I have just finished running it for nearly 3 months and to be honest it just didnt work as well as expected after about a month. It seems like a good diet, & i really appreciated Kiefer’s scientific approach, but I found there are just too many caveats for it to work in its current form. I am keen to check out his new books when they come out & see what has changed.
Just would like to add, on the topic of CBL that Keifer recently has been advising something for ‘leaner’ individuals, and that’s that the 1:1 protein ratio, as you get deeper into your diet, may need to be adjusted to .5:1 fat to protein.
I found this out as well too this summer when getting into the single-digit BF%. Just a tip I thought I’d share.
I love reading CBL ‘discussions’ between Kiefer, Lyle McD, and Alan Aragon. Always a good read, lol.
Cheers guys I’m really looking forward to it, I have come from anorexia nervosa so I was 5.5 stone and managed to get to 10ish stone just using conventional sort of body building diet but now I’m really looking forward to the challenge of cbl! I think it will help adress certain pyschological issues as I was always worried about eating the so called “bad” foods and also worried about eating fat so its time to man up and enjoy!!
I will be using my carb choices by having cleaner carbs for dinner then I will allow myself to have some banana cake as this is high in carbs and also oreos of a later evening however I have heard that pastries in particular are very good for cbl so does this mean I can go costco and abuse their pastry section such as croissants, danish swirls and muffins?
It seems like you guys have done very well on cbl and you all certainly know your stuff and I am greatful for all the advice given to me 
Also is it just hfcs sugars that I should avoid on my backloads, can I have glucose syrup and fructose in the ingredients??
Can I go back to normalised eating I.e. eating carbs in morning and throughout the day if I don’t enjoy cbl? What would happen?
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
Can I go back to normalised eating I.e. eating carbs in morning and throughout the day if I don’t enjoy cbl? What would happen?[/quote]
Nothing probably. I mean you were likely eating like that before trying it. It’s not like CBL is steroids that will forever change your hormone production and stuff. It’s just a way of eating that may provide benefits to some that other diets don’t.
I think you’re REALLY over-thinking this broheim. haha
Yeah that’s true I was just wondering if it may have an effect on your body using carbs in the early stages of the day …
Yeah I think you are right mate I’m being to bro science and analytical over it all and that’s not the idea its to be able to eat and not have to worry so much
As of monday I’m going for it I’m not going to worry that my fat intake is going to be over 100g and on my backloads I’m going to go for it at least 300g consisting of gluten free pasta, pizza, fruit cake, tea cakes, frosted flakes and cookies … Do you reckon I could have porridge if I cook it longer to raise the gi levels as I have a mean recipe for porridge that tastes great lol
This is my first post to T-Nation
Just to validate myself a LITTLE bit I went back over the last week and read this forum from the very first post.
First off, Ive been very impressed with Spidey and several others and their post. Good stuff, Im jealous you can eat what you eat in the backload and not get fat!
A little about me, im 6 feet tall, 159 pounds (down 3 on my 7th day of the prep phase)
Goal is obviously to gain a little MUSCLE weight, as well as drop some fat.
Im studying nutrition and bio chemistry. I spend HOURS a day studying food and what it does to your body. Alot of which I agree with robb wolf and kiefer. They have some GREAT STUFF.
I come from a crossfit/paleo background where I lost a good amount of weight, but not where I want to be. I have now added in 5/3/1 weight lifting starting this week and just finished the fourth workout. Im trying to gain size and stay athletic at the same time. I enjoy doing muscle ups on the rings, but want to be able to power clean/squat heavy. Honestly, it has to do alot with wanting to feel great with my shirt off, like alot of people here im sure can relate with.
MY first CBL will be tuesday night. While im excited about including rice/potatoes and possible bread back into my diet… kinda nervous at the same time. Just do not want to gain any fat back that I lost!
Any questions about certain foods and what they do to your body, shoot em my way!
Lets keep this thread going. Its been a VERY GOOD READ.
Here’s to my first post.
And BTW I PR’d last night on my squat clean while in the middle of my VLC, so let me attest to the fact that the prep phase is not all that bad! Besides being crazy tired mid afternoon!
Welcome and good luck. I wouldn’t worry about getting fat, as long as you stick to the protocol. And I find it odd that you seem to suggest that being able to do ring MUs and heavy cleans/squats are antithetical to each other. I’m a powerlifter, but also an acrobat. Really no reason why you can’t do both. Just keep getting stronger overall. Remember, strength is neuromuscular first and foremost.
[quote]animus wrote:
Welcome and good luck. I wouldn’t worry about getting fat, as long as you stick to the protocol. And I find it odd that you seem to suggest that being able to do ring MUs and heavy cleans/squats are antithetical to each other. I’m a powerlifter, but also an acrobat. Really no reason why you can’t do both. Just keep getting stronger overall. Remember, strength is neuromuscular first and foremost.[/quote]
Your very right. I guess I was alluding to the fact that I want to stay on the athletic “looking” side of being Big and lean rather than the body builder look. Although, I want the best of both worlds.
1st CBL tonight. Did a shortened (7 day) prep phase
I have the day laid out already to keep me on track.
Total macros are going to end up at 211.5g pro/157g cho/ 111g fat.
I thought this was pretty good.
5am - wake up
7am - kiefer coffee w heavy cream, 10g whey isolate, 3g creatine
8:30am - Crossfit workout w LOTS of deadlifts. Post workout whey shake
11am - 4 eggs cooked in tbsp coconut oil, chicken, 1/2 avocado, spinach
1:45pm - 2tbps Almond butter
4:00pm - Primal pack (few nuts and grassfed beef jerky)
6:30pm - 5/3/1 workout - squats w/ a few extras
7:15pm - Progenex more muscle shake (has leucine too), ripe banana
8:00pm - 3 (Lean Turkey) tacos with 3 gluten free shells, 1/2 pounds turkey, some sour cream 1 cup cooked rice.
9:30pm - Bed.
Thoughts? Critics?
Yes I have read the book.