Can Atheists go to Heaven?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Catholicism is pure counterfeit poison. We have a guy here who says he’s a Christian and can’t be bothered to love a lost man through a keyboard and a computer to say nothing of what Paul sacrificed to see men saved. I dunno. I just don’t know what to say to that.

[/quote]

Na, he just has identified me as a lost cause and has moved on to more promising pastures.

You cannot forget that for every moment he would spend not converting me he could actually convert someone else.

62

?Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.?
― Marcus Aurelius

And to answer your question, no. Not because they are atheist, but simply because heaven does not exist.

63

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
I’m with Orion on this one. I don’t see the point serving an unseen entity. I’d rather serve fellow human beings who are with me here on Earth, than take a leap of faith on something so unbelievably ludicrous, that it has created more destruction and death than it has good.
[/quote]

Hold your horses, human beings are so incredibly fucked up that it is questionable whether organized religion was even able to do any significant damage.

For all we know we still might be sacrificing virgins without their spiritual struggle.

We would have trouble finding any, but still.

64

Well, since I noticed the quote…

I’m not interested…

I don’t care…

…To get into a discussion about his atheism, or his view of God. He said his position (though I’ve long known it), fully aware and of sound mind, and so now I leave him to it. I’m not interested in 3 more pages of how Orion feels. I already know/knew. And I’m not under any obligation to entertain Orion (or anyone), as he lets me know, page after page, how much he detests the Christian god, having rejected him. Again, I know.

That simple. To extrapolate from that I don’t care about him as a person…

I say the last for Orion’s sake, not Tirib’s.

65

[quote]orion wrote:

You cannot forget that for every moment he would spend not converting me he could actually convert someone else. [/quote]

Spoken like a man of Economics!

66

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
I’m with Orion on this one. I don’t see the point serving an unseen entity. I’d rather serve fellow human beings who are with me here on Earth, than take a leap of faith on something so unbelievably ludicrous, that it has created more destruction and death than it has good.
[/quote]

Hold your horses, human beings are so incredibly fucked up that it is questionable whether organized religion was even able to do any significant damage.

For all we know we still might be sacrificing virgins without their spiritual struggle.

We would have trouble finding any, but still.[/quote]

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?

67

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
God has made you what you are, warts and all.

Its not like he could not have shifted the whole temptation thing in one or the other direction, the point is that he knew what would happen if he made man the way he was.

Allegedly.

To borrow from Hitchens, you are born sick and commanded to be well.

That is not very nice. [/quote]

Lol…what am i fundy now? You’re forgetting free will and Original Sin.[/quote]

Both attributes you were created with, at least with the potential.

He knew. [/quote]

Yeah, still doesn’t make sense.

68

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, since I noticed the quote…

I’m not interested…

I don’t care…

…To get into a discussion about his atheism, or his view of God. He said his position (though I’ve long known it), fully aware and of sound mind, and so now I leave him to it. I’m not interested in 3 more pages of how Orion feels. I already know/knew. And I’m not under any obligation to entertain Orion (or anyone), as he lets me know, page after page, how much he detests the Christian god, having rejected him. Again, I know.

That simple. To extrapolate from that I don’t care about him as a person…

I say the last for Orion’s sake, not Tirib’s.

[/quote]

Word.

69

[quote]orion wrote:

Na, he just has identified me as a lost cause and has moved on to more promising pastures.
[/quote]

But no, not a lost cause. Just treating you like an adult who has made his decision. What happens later in your life, I’ve no idea. At the moment, I don’t feel like wasting my time telling you about a Gospel you know and/or have access to, so you can tell me how much you dislike the Christian God. Over and over.

70

[quote]Sloth wrote:

That simple. To extrapolate from that I don’t care about him as a person…

I say the last for Orion’s sake, not Tirib’s.

[/quote]

You know, “detest” is a bit harsh.

But, since I believe that man makes gods in his image instead of the other way around I sometimes wonder.

Then again, if he does not invent gods he invents something else and that always gets to be so unnecessarily bloody, so why not religion.

At least when it comes to religion the worst is behind us.

I will regret having written the last sentence, I am positively sure of that.

Also, Gregorian chants, moral philosophy and Christmas.

So there.

71

The christian heaven, if it did exist (which it more than likely does not), would be as Hitchens described it, as a “celestial North Korea”.

I’ll pass, thank you…

72

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
I’m with Orion on this one. I don’t see the point serving an unseen entity. I’d rather serve fellow human beings who are with me here on Earth, than take a leap of faith on something so unbelievably ludicrous, that it has created more destruction and death than it has good.
[/quote]

Hold your horses, human beings are so incredibly fucked up that it is questionable whether organized religion was even able to do any significant damage.

For all we know we still might be sacrificing virgins without their spiritual struggle.

We would have trouble finding any, but still.[/quote]

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

I heard Putin believes he’s the second coming of St. John the Baptist. Speaking of Russia, I’m going to go catch up on Dr. Matt’s thread.

73

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

Are you an atheist?

74

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
The christian heaven, if it did exist (which it more than likely does not), would be as Hitchens described it, as a “celestial North Korea”.

I’ll pass, thank you…[/quote]

Again. Banquets, hiking, and sex…not sure how that comes close to celestial North Korea.

75

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
I’m with Orion on this one. I don’t see the point serving an unseen entity. I’d rather serve fellow human beings who are with me here on Earth, than take a leap of faith on something so unbelievably ludicrous, that it has created more destruction and death than it has good.
[/quote]

Hold your horses, human beings are so incredibly fucked up that it is questionable whether organized religion was even able to do any significant damage.

For all we know we still might be sacrificing virgins without their spiritual struggle.

We would have trouble finding any, but still.[/quote]

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

There once was a catholic Church.

Small c on purpose. When it was no longer catholic it became bloody.

Then we had nationalism, socialism, fascism, communism, bloody, bloody, bloody…

People like mass movements and belief systems, dont ask me why, they do.

I would say Europeans are just about ready for the next round, Americans still believe in God.

Does not make any sense to me, I am just observing this.

76

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

Are you an atheist?
[/quote]

I dont believe me beliefs are important to the conversation. What is accepted as evidence shouldnt change based upon religious background, but unfortunately…

I was simply inquiring on if she could offer a logical explanation on why she thought human beings would still be barbaric, without religion.

77

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
I’m with Orion on this one. I don’t see the point serving an unseen entity. I’d rather serve fellow human beings who are with me here on Earth, than take a leap of faith on something so unbelievably ludicrous, that it has created more destruction and death than it has good.
[/quote]

Hold your horses, human beings are so incredibly fucked up that it is questionable whether organized religion was even able to do any significant damage.

For all we know we still might be sacrificing virgins without their spiritual struggle.

We would have trouble finding any, but still.[/quote]

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

There once was a catholic Church.

Small c on purpose. When it was no longer catholic it became bloody.

Then we had nationalism, socialism, fascism, communism, bloody, bloody, bloody…

People like mass movements and belief systems, dont ask me why, they do.

I would say Europeans are just about ready for the next round, Americans still believe in God.

Does not make any sense to me, I am just observing this. [/quote]

For the most part I feel you are correct. But the holy book that the catholics worship is horrbily barbaric. Maybe i am misunderstanding your statement about “no longer catholic.”

78

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

Are you an atheist?
[/quote]

I dont believe me beliefs are important to the conversation. What is accepted as evidence shouldnt change based upon religious background, but unfortunately…

I was simply inquiring on if she could offer a logical explanation on why she thought human beings would still be barbaric, without religion.[/quote]

I didn’t know Orion (I always said it O’Ryan) was a girl! Since, when?

79

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

Do you have any evidence to back this, or is it purely speculation?[/quote]

Are you an atheist?
[/quote]

I dont believe me beliefs are important to the conversation. What is accepted as evidence shouldnt change based upon religious background, but unfortunately…

I was simply inquiring on if she could offer a logical explanation on why she thought human beings would still be barbaric, without religion.[/quote]

I didn’t know Orion (I always said it O’Ryan) was a girl! Since, when?[/quote]

Umm what? Since when what?

80

[quote]Dt546 wrote:

I dont believe me beliefs are important to the conversation. What is accepted as evidence shouldnt change based upon religious background, but unfortunately…

I was simply inquiring on if she could offer a logical explanation on why she thought human beings would still be barbaric, without religion.[/quote]

Well, I’ll assume you’re an atheist simply for the exercise.

So you say, “There isn’t a one religion created by any sort of god. It’s man-made!”

Later you say, “Religion is/has been bloody”

You see the implication? Ultimately it’s a rant against man’s tendencies. Pretty much what Orion is saying.