[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
An imagination is a nice thing to have.[/quote]
I agree… it’s what fuelled scientific discovery.
[/quote]
Yep. Some people may use it for rational inquiry and problem solving and others may use it to write fiction.
[quote]pat wrote:
Science is nothing but belief.[/quote]
correct; belief based on evidence, not blind faith.
[quote]pat wrote:
Science doesn’t yield truth, it makes correlations based on seemingly related events.[/quote]
Science is a tool that helps us search for it. Science places value on evidence and skepticism, and isn’t satisfied with what’s already known. Science continually wants to understand our world on a much deeper level, and is willing to question and doubt itself in order get that deeper understanding.
Close enough to the truth for this honkey.
[quote]pat wrote:
What I find striking is how much ‘faith’ atheists put in science, but yet they don’t even really know what science is.[/quote]
What I find striking, is how little you understand the concept of “faith”, which is probably because you have a hard time wrapping your head around the idea of not having any.
I assure you, faith has nothing to do with it.
[quote]pat wrote:
I don’t mean they don’t know scientific facts, I mean they don’t know what science itself it’s, what it actually measures and how it derives it’s conclusions.
Most scientific conclusions are assumptions based on observation.[/quote]
Observations of what’s reality, which requires zero faith.
[quote]pat wrote:
So wait, let me say for you… You’re going to say I insert God where the phenomenon is unknown, NO.[/quote]
Believers love to insert “god did it” for any unexplainable phenomenon; that’s lazy IMHO.
[quote]pat wrote:
I am saying I know both science and God and based on the ass hat things you lot say, I know both better than you do.
**When I say ‘you’ I mean atheists in general, not you as in big flamer.[/quote]
That’s amusing. Your religion can spew some of the most ridiculous ass hat claims in the history of mankind, claims that you and your ilk would say requires “faith”. We’re talking some of the MOST ridiculous shit in the history of man, unbelievable shit that could only come from religion and at a time of extreme ignorance.
Fact: as science progresses, religion is forced to adjust to keep up. Or do you still believe that the sun orbits our flat earth? LOL
[quote]pat wrote:
Ever notice when debating an atheist, is that the first thing they do is tell you how smart they are and how dumb you are?
Ironic when you are advocating a belief in nothing.[/quote]
What I have noticed, is how bat shit crazy believers can get when atheists start to question their mythology. This is usually when THEY call YOU stupid.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< Fact: as science progresses, religion is forced to adjust to keep up. >>>[/quote]Not mine Sparky, but your point is excruciatingly important. All these concessions to modern man in the name of Jesus are a stench in the nostrils of the Holy immutable God. However you are dead wrong when you say that faith has nothing to do with the acceptance of science. Faith is the foundation of everything science is and every reason you… well, have faith in it.
.
.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< What I have noticed, is how bat shit crazy believers can get when atheists start to question their mythology. This is usually when THEY call YOU stupid.
[/quote]I have never done that to anyone Sparky.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< What I have noticed, is how bat shit crazy believers can get when atheists start to question their mythology. This is usually when THEY call YOU stupid.
[/quote]I have never done that to anyone Sparky.[/quote]
True, I’ll give you that. We could probably have a helluva great discussion in real time.
What I don’t understand is why people feel the need to try and prove they are right and the other party is dead wrong. I’ve gone to a few religious events and there are people there who actually brought signs, and spend their day yelling to people like me, a 25 year old male, with a decent education, and a sound mind, that I was so wrong that they couldn’t keep to themselves and had to come out and let everyone know how wrong we all were.
Sure I’ve gone out into the world and talked about my beliefs (my mission). Yet I’ve never felt it was necessary to stand outside of a church gathering and yell out reasons why they are going to hell. Daily I would invite people to hear about my beliefs in Christ and his doctrine, but if they didn’t want to listen, or in the course of the discussion neither one of us could see eye to eye I would thank them for the time, and go talk to someone else, I wouldn’t dust off my feet and condemn them to hell, I wouldn’t let others know that they are bad people for not believing in my spaghetti monster, just thanks for the talk and have a good day.
I suppose it’s an issue of pride, and I’d like to think that having a prideful composure isn’t applauded in any community whether its science or religion. (the bad kind of pride)
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:[quote]Sparky wrote:
What I have noticed, is how bat shit crazy believers can get when atheists start to question their mythology. This is usually when THEY call YOU stupid.[/quote]I have never done that to anyone Sparky.[/quote]
[quote]Sparky wrote: True, I’ll give you that. >>>[/quote]Thank you. My faith does not require you to be stupid to be wrong. In fact the more brilliant somebody is the wronger they usually are too, but brilliant nonetheless. Hence my Hitchens memorial thread. [quote]Sparky wrote: We could probably have a helluva great discussion in real time.[/quote]Indeed. I hesitated to get started on these topics in the first place way back when exactly because of how difficult they are to pursue online like this.
[quote]kamui wrote:
Where do pantheists go after death ?
[/quote]
In a coffin if they are like most of us, or to be cremated. Metaphorically speaking back to nature or God for Spinoza, but this isn’t something like “sitting at the table” with all those who have passed before you.
In a the same sense “where does pain go after illness?” But its fun to raise these questions kinda like what is the sound of one hand clapping?
and so atheists can go to heaven if and only if God invites them lol
Or can atheists go to church? Not as much fun with that one heh?
[quote]Trad_Climb wrote:
What I don’t understand is why people feel the need to try and prove they are right and the other party is dead wrong. I’ve gone to a few religious events and there are people there who actually brought signs, and spend their day yelling to people like me, a 25 year old male, with a decent education, and a sound mind, that I was so wrong that they couldn’t keep to themselves and had to come out and let everyone know how wrong we all were.
Sure I’ve gone out into the world and talked about my beliefs (my mission). Yet I’ve never felt it was necessary to stand outside of a church gathering and yell out reasons why they are going to hell. Daily I would invite people to hear about my beliefs in Christ and his doctrine, but if they didn’t want to listen, or in the course of the discussion neither one of us could see eye to eye I would thank them for the time, and go talk to someone else, I wouldn’t dust off my feet and condemn them to hell, I wouldn’t let others know that they are bad people for not believing in my spaghetti monster, just thanks for the talk and have a good day.
I suppose it’s an issue of pride, and I’d like to think that having a prideful composure isn’t applauded in any community whether its science or religion. (the bad kind of pride)[/quote]Ya jist gotta do this to me don’t ya. =] I KNOW you know this passage describing the founding of your church as alleged by Joseph Smith Jr.:
[quote] 18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.[/quote] JS-H 1:18-19 “God” certainly seems to disagree with you if your “prophet” was tellin the truth. All the sects, that would be ALL the churches, ALL the creeds, that would be ALL the doctrine and ALL the professors, that would be ALL the people, ALL wrong with hearts far from him and Joseph is forbidden by god himself to commune with any of them.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Trad_Climb wrote:
What I don’t understand is why people feel the need to try and prove they are right and the other party is dead wrong. I’ve gone to a few religious events and there are people there who actually brought signs, and spend their day yelling to people like me, a 25 year old male, with a decent education, and a sound mind, that I was so wrong that they couldn’t keep to themselves and had to come out and let everyone know how wrong we all were.
Sure I’ve gone out into the world and talked about my beliefs (my mission). Yet I’ve never felt it was necessary to stand outside of a church gathering and yell out reasons why they are going to hell. Daily I would invite people to hear about my beliefs in Christ and his doctrine, but if they didn’t want to listen, or in the course of the discussion neither one of us could see eye to eye I would thank them for the time, and go talk to someone else, I wouldn’t dust off my feet and condemn them to hell, I wouldn’t let others know that they are bad people for not believing in my spaghetti monster, just thanks for the talk and have a good day.
I suppose it’s an issue of pride, and I’d like to think that having a prideful composure isn’t applauded in any community whether its science or religion. (the bad kind of pride)[/quote]
Ya jist gotta do this to me don’t ya. =]
[quote] 18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)â??and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: â??they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.â??
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.[/quote] JS-H 1:18-19 “God” certainly seems to disagree with you if your “prophet” was tellin the truth. All the sects, that would be ALL the churches, ALL the creeds, that would be ALL the doctrine and ALL the professors, that would be ALL the people, ALL wrong with hearts far from him and Joseph is forbidden by god himself to commune with any of them. [/quote]
Sorry mods, I am playing around with different options for the tagging and since preview doesn’t render the bbcode anymore I have to go live to see if what I’m doing is working with this forum software.
Of course I know my church was started by Joseph Smith being told to join no other church, and that he was made responsible to restore Christs original set up. By why do people feel it so necessary to make a spectacle of how they feel I am wrong. Going with what Smith was told, shouldn’t I and all my fellow members be outside all the other religions chapels letting them know the good news: “hey idiots we think you are just as wrong as you think we are wrong!”
I understand they think we are crazy to believe in Joseph’s vision, but I think its crazy to baptize/christen a baby. Yet I’ve never met a Mormon who said "hey want to go protest outside X church this Friday?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
On other hand…
If i go to Hell, i may end up discussing politics and economics with libertarians.
Heaven may be ok, after all.
[/quote]
When we are done arguing, we drink, they pray.
Take your pick, but in the face of eternity, what does it matter?[/quote]
I drink while I pray.
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
Thor>Prince of Peace[/quote]
Jesus turned water in to wine. Who brings the party favors…that’s what I thought.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
Thor>Prince of Peace[/quote]
Jesus turned water in to wine. Who brings the party favors…that’s what I thought.[/quote]
LOL. Chris, the more you post the more I like you.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
Thor>Prince of Peace[/quote]
Jesus turned water in to wine. Who brings the party favors…that’s what I thought.[/quote]
LOL. Chris, the more you post the more I like you.[/quote]
Haha, well after all those stories about Soviet Russia, I’ve come to like you, too Doctor.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Good to see my ol buddy Cortes stick his nose back in here for a while. I almost PM’d you last night, but I got hung up in a tussle with my other ol buddy Thunderbolt.
[/quote]
Thanks Tirib. I haven’t missed a single post of any of this. I have just decided it is better right now for me to remain in a period of reading and contemplation; something I do periodically. I’ll be back to posting regularly soon enough. Not sure when, but I’ve not left T-Nation in 10 years now (despite my join date, I used to purchase the paper mag). I’m not going anywhere.