[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:I rise every day and get armored for war with the enemy, the world and my own carnality. I am no paragon of puritanical perfection and make no pretense to being such.[/quote]Good, then maybe you will resere the judging for the Judge.[/quote]Ya skipped the first part again. The judge’s judgement with regard to the things I address dogmatically is clearly revealed in his written Word for those who take it seriously. I’m just a messenger and where “judgement” is concerned? That has NOTHING to do with Calvinism as I have stated TEN THOUSAND times. The war to me is NOT Calvinism vs. Catholicism. It is Christianity, which includes a great many non Calvinists with which I disagree on quite a bit, against CatholicISM. Now did ya hear that? I can grab a few dozen posts where I’ve said that if need be. [quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:I wouldn’t talk about a dog the way you talk to and treat Lifty sometimes. You denigrate and assault his intelligence and hence his person. That is arrogance. I don’t like it, but it doesn’t make you an especially horrible guy. It makes you human and arrogant. Like the rest of us. I made one generic comment several weeks ago and left it alone.[/quote]Lifty makes ridiculously stupid comments based on ridiculously stupid assumptions, and I advise him of that. [/quote]Do you really want me to repost some of the abuse you have hurled at Lifty and let folks decide whether that is smug condescending arrogance? I defy you, I triple dog dare you to find one post in all these PWI threads where I have done that to even one of my most vehement opponents. Lifty is naive and idealistic, but he is not stupid. You are a very generously gifted man Thunderbolt. You know he is not stupid. It’s you who can’t the see the real difference.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:You have decided that you are judge and jury over whether other folks’ religion “measures up”, and you inform people without solicitation and without context that their faith is “evil” and “soulless”. If you don’t recognize the difference, it ain’t my problem to fix.[/quote]See above. I am commanded and so are you, if you’re a Christian like you say, to defend the faith once for all delivered to the saints. I do. You don’t. Because you don’t take the bible seriously as is amply evinced by your willingness to act yourself as JUDGE of the Word of God and dismiss the most unbelievably crystal clear parts you don’t like.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:I don’t? Here we go with this now too. You negatively caricature both the substance and the attitude of a thread with 9000+ views since the 13th of February, but will scamper off with the rabbit hole comment below if I politely and VERY respectfully challenge you to demonstrate your claims. 1988 I discovered epistemology Thunderbolt. This is not some new neato intellectual toy I just found to play games with people with.[/quote]Well, your recent tone-deaf insistence of jamming it into every conceivable conservation or debate says otherwise, and as a result, you’ve become insufferable. You act like the college freshman who suddenly “discovered” psychology and now can’t enter an adult conversation without explaining the world through psychology.[/quote] You are attacking me for sins of the past. I have made a concentrated effort not to hijack people’s threads. If I’m not doing as well as I think, please you or somebody else show me. I’m not aware of it.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:As for your thread, I’ve said a number of times - and I’ll say it again - I have no interest in your thoughts on epistemology. I’ll say it again, just so we’re clear - I don’t have any interest in your thoughts on epistemology.[/quote]And I’ll say again. For myself and on behalf of others who have said so as well. WE are interested in YOUR views on epistemology. Subtle but unmistakable difference there. I can tell you’re not interested in my views because you still haven’t the first flickering clue what they are. Which is actually better because if I thought you did understand and were acting like this I’d call you a coward and try to goad you into the debate with semi lighthearted snarky remarks about your abilities in this area. That not being the case I wouldn’t do that though.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:That is why I decline participation - no other reason. Epistemology is a fascinating subject - I just am not all that interested in your take on it.[/quote]You selfishly deny several members the pleasure of your input because of lil ol me? You make me far too important.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:I’m trying it again now and I’ll try it again in the future. Of course you have a job. Totally understandable, but it does seem a bit disingenuous to point your scorn at somebody and then say, "but I won’t substantiate that because it’s a rabbit hole and I have a job. May I ask some of your other concerns. I will never trifle with you. I am asking sincerely.[/quote]My “scorn” isn’t because you started and continue a thread on epistemology. My “scorn” is a result of your plain inability to stay on topic and limit your crusade so that it doesn’t devolve yet another thread into trench warfare over whether Calvinists or Catholics have it right.[/quote]See above. It is not about Calvinists and CatholicS. I love the Catholic people. I would give Chris(or Sloth)my last dollar if he needed it without a second thought. It’s about the saving gospel and the horrific counterfeit that is CatholicISM. Can I make that still any plainer?[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:And that is, to be crystal clear, exactly what you do - you try and make every topic about Calvinism vs. “false faiths”. [/quote]See the preceding.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:Sloth makes a comment in this thread that despite Orion’s desire to the contrary, he is not interested in trying to convert Orion to Christianity in this thread - what do you do? You attempt to ignite the battle between Calvinism vs. Catholicism - again. It’s getting old.[/quote]I misunderstood and said so once pointed out. I apologized. He doesn’t know that though because he has me on ignore like a big boy. Had his comment meant what I initially thought it did, my response would have been on topic. I readily apologized and was very sincerely glad to have been wrong there and said that too.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Logic is born from the God of heaven. Right now wouldn’t be soon enough for me. I’m hopin for ya Lifty. You’re naive and screwy sometimes, but I’ve always been kinda fond of you ya know.[/quote]So is logic arbitrary and dependent on God’s will?[/quote]Nothing is arbitrary and everything is dependent on God’s will Lifty. Logic reflects His nature which image He created into us. That’s where our logic comes from, but His is bigger. He’s God n we ain’t. He understands all that we can’t and never will. Like how to command light and matter to exist from nothing for instance. I addressed this exact thing in the epistemology thread.
[quote]Trad_Climb wrote: Mormon here, just sharing how I feel. >>>[/quote]Welcome Elder Trad_Climb. Your input is certainly valued as all views should be heard. If you are a typical committed LDS you are a decent sorta fella, patriotic and a good neighbor, worker, workmate, friend and family man. I must however be so bold as to tell you I have read the Book of Mormon(several historic editions), Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great price, Apostle McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine”, much in the journal of discourses and a pile of anti LDS literature including the Tanner’s "Mormonism: Shadow or Reality cover to cover along with Fawn Brody’s "No man knows my History.
You no doubt know what all of those are and are quite displeased by the last two and yes I am well aware of what you will tell me about each. In any case I do humbly submit that I know more about your church than any six average Mormons combined. That said these pagans and Catholics have me all tied up and I wore myself out on the last Mormons that were around here. I am in spite of everything, happy to assume you’re probably a very nice guy who I would wind up liking very much.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:same hell as Jeffrey Dahmer.[/quote]So, you know for a fact that jeffrey Dahmer is in hell?[/quote]Not for absolutely certain, but my point stands. Incidentally I saw an interview with Dahmer where he told the reporter that he knew he was evil. He didn’t wanna hear about Mom and Dad and upbringing and illness, blah blah blah. He looked right at the guy told him: I am evil, a bad man. That’s a good sign Chris. Maybe he was a poor choice for my point
There’s a Hindu proverb about an atheist who was so militant that he went around constantly repeating “there is no God, there is no God…ect.” One day as he was carrying on like this he got so “into it” he walked off the edge of a mountain path and fell to his death, his last thoughts being “there is no God.” Upon death he instantly achieved Nirvana i.e. complete oneness with God as a reward for a life spent almost entirely in the contemplation of God. So if certain schools of Hindu thought are correct, maybe some atheists do go to heaven, but only if they’re really enthusiastic about it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Welcome Elder Trad_Climb. Your input is certainly valued as all views should be heard. If you are a typical committed LDS you are a decent sorta fella, patriotic and a good neighbor, worker, workmate, friend and family man. I must however be so bold as to tell you I have read the Book of Mormon(several historic editions), Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great price, Apostle McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine”, much in the journal of discourses and a pile of anti LDS literature including the Tanner’s "Mormonism: Shadow or Reality cover to cover along with Fawn Brody’s "No man knows my History.
You no doubt know what all of those are and are quite displeased by the last two and yes I am well aware of what you will tell me about each. In any case I do humbly submit that I know more about your church than any six average Mormons combined. That said these pagans and Catholics have me all tied up and I wore myself out on the last Mormons that were around here. I am in spite of everything, happy to assume you’re probably a very nice guy who I would wind up liking very much.
[/quote]
I am told I am not a typical LDS member often actually, but I don’t wear my beliefs on my sleeve. People are often surprised I’m Mormon and say things like “but you’re so normal!” I suppose I’m suppose to take offense to that because I’m suppose to be this neo-breed of christian, but I don’t see why I can’t be just a normal man, and still have a strong belief in Christ.
I actually have no problem that you’ve read many pro & anti Mormon books, I’ve read quite a few on your list as well, you should give Porter Rockwell’s Journal a read too, the guy was the body guard to the prophet and basically went around killing people, not a whole lot of gospel but who doesn’t like a renegade.
I’m just here to share my beliefs with anyone who would like to read them out there, and am willing to answer any question the best I can. Thanks for the familiar “elder” greeting, made me smile.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Logic is born from the God of heaven. Right now wouldn’t be soon enough for me. I’m hopin for ya Lifty. You’re naive and screwy sometimes, but I’ve always been kinda fond of you ya know.[/quote]So is logic arbitrary and dependent on God’s will?[/quote]Nothing is arbitrary and everything is dependent on God’s will Lifty. Logic reflects His nature which image He created into us. That’s where our logic comes from, but His is bigger. He’s God n we ain’t. He understands all that we can’t and never will. Like how to command light and matter to exist from nothing for instance. I addressed this exact thing in the epistemology thread.
[/quote]
Well, I guess I am just going to have to take your word for it because - epistemologically speaking - I ain’t certain.
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[quote]bigflamer wrote:
.[/quote]
Science is nothing but belief. Science doesn’t yield truth, it makes correlations based on seemingly related events.
What I find striking is how much ‘faith’ atheists put in science, but yet they don’t even really know what science is.
I don’t mean they don’t know scientific facts, I mean they don’t know what science itself it’s, what it actaully measures and how it derives it’s conclusions.
Most scientific conclusions are assumptions based on observation.
So wait, let me say for you… You’re going to say I insert God where the phenomenon is unknown, NO.
I am saying I know both science and God and based on the ass hat things you lot say, I know both better than you do.
**When I say ‘you’ I mean atheists in general, not you as in big flamer.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Is heaven like a Utopia?
That means conflicts could not exist there.
That means there can be no such thing as scarcity there.
That means man does not have to plan economic activity there.
That means man loses his ability to think and to problem solve because he has no need for such reasoning skill in a place of such abundances.
Therefore, in heaven man becomes a slug - existing at the whim of a jealous, vengeful, and child-like god.[/quote]
[b]1 Corinthians 2:9
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”[/b][/quote]
So logic does not exist in Heaven?
Then I am not going.
[/quote]
Nobody is forced bub. You want out, say the word.
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[quote]pat wrote:
.[/quote]
And then after birth the mother tortured her son for all of eternity for not believing.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ya skipped the first part again. The judge’s judgement with regard to the things I address dogmatically is clearly revealed in his written Word for those who take it seriously. I’m just a messenger and where “judgement” is concerned? That has NOTHING to do with Calvinism as I have stated TEN THOUSAND times. The war to me is NOT Calvinism vs. Catholicism. It is Christianity, which includes a great many non Calvinists with which I disagree on quite a bit, against CatholicISM. Now did ya hear that? I can grab a few dozen posts where I’ve said that if need be.[/quote]
I’m not interested - messengers don’t act as judges, they act as messengers.
Wait, wait, wait - I call Lifty a moron, and you stalk Catholics to constantly inform them that they follow a “soulless” and “evil” faith, and you’re more torn up about my manners and than yours? Are you serious?
Here is why I am not much interested in what you have to say - you have in fact judged me, and you haven’t the foggiest clue what my religion is. There’s no need for a conversation about it - you stick to your pre-fabricated script. It’s pointless - which is why I don’t much care what you say about epistemology…you’re entirely too narrow and limited on the topic for it to be all that interesting to me. If you think you’ve already gotten me “figured out” without even knowing much about me, that’s a “dialogue” that’s a complete waste of my time.
Make what you will of that, but that is the reality.
I just did, chief. You tried to divert this thread into yet another tangent of Calvinism vs. Catholicism (as you flat out admit below). That is precisely what I’ve been saying.
I’m sure they will survive without the ruminations of an anonymous internet opinionator.
Yes, it’s quite plain, but note - you conceded the point. You admit that, yes, you have, in fact, attempted to ignite that debate yet again in this forum. By your own words - It’s about the saving gospel and the horrific counterfeit that is CatholicISM. Yep, this conversational thread became yet another redundnant platform for you to pursue this crusade.
That was exactly my point, thanks for making it for me.
[quote]pat wrote:
.[/quote]Ohh Patty boy my old nemesis, that is a GOOD one with the babies!!! I will be borrowing that for the epistemology thread and you will get credit. Ya did it again man. That poster is the most protestant, reformed, Calvinist and Van Tillian transcendental illustration I have ever heard of. MAGNIFICENT!!!
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
.[/quote]Ohh Patty boy my old nemesis, that is a GOOD one with the babies!!! I will be borrowing that for the epistemology thread and you will get credit. Ya did it again man. That poster is the most protestant, reformed, Calvinist and Van Tillian transcendental illustration I have ever heard of. MAGNIFICENT!!!
[/quote]
Make sure you tag my rebuttal following his post.
Moms love is unconditional, god’s love isn’t.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
.[/quote]
And then after birth the mother tortured her son for all of eternity for not believing.[/quote]
Where you beaten as a child?
Pat the humor is low but I am actually lolling at some of those pics. Particularly the Dawkins one and the one before and after it as well.