Calling All Agnostics/Atheists: How Can You Be Happy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
orion wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
forlife wrote:
ironmaniac508 wrote:
Personally I believe in God and such. However I hate that mentality that if you dont go to church you are evil, and will burn in hell. Many people might go to church, but some are the most awful people you will ever meet.
Also I feel the church during the middle ages was one of the most evil things in the history of mankind. The pope was considered the leader of christian Europe. The church of old had a lot of blood on its hands, between the crusades, and inquisitions and so on. The idea behind religion should be to inspire morals, not fear.

Your post, and Vegita’s, makes me wonder if there might be a negative correlation between fundamentalism and happiness.

Thats funny forliar…given the hard data from the CDC on the high depression, anxiety and suicide rates among homosexual men.

Given your conduct in those threads I can understand why.

The constant yearning to kick you in the nuts probably takes a toll on gay men.

Hey, why don�?�´t you get a badge and a gun and take your show on the road?

Are things that bad in austria (small “A” on purpose) that you need to spend this much time on an American BB web site? Just no real friends you can talk to is that it? Come on Whorion let us all know.

[/quote]

You are not man enough for austria (sic!).

Your sthinker is unclean, unshaven even!

62

[quote]forlife wrote:
That’s cool, I wasn’t saying it shouldn’t impact your happiness. Out of curiosity, why does it though? Would you be more happy if you truly believed you were going to live forever?[/quote]

If I knew that there was a god, probably.

I’ve known a lot of people that died; many of them far before their time. They were watershed moments for me that I’ve only started to recover from in the last year.

Watch “Rescue Me.” Tommy Gavin is very, very similar to me.

63

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Essentially I’m claiming morals are your god, not morals necessitate a god.[/quote]

Sounds like we’re in agreement!

64

[quote]forlife wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Essentially I’m claiming morals are your god, not morals necessitate a god.

Sounds like we’re in agreement![/quote]

I don’t think our beliefs are as different as our arguments make them out to be.

65

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
If I knew that there was a god, probably.

I’ve known a lot of people that died; many of them far before their time. They were watershed moments for me that I’ve only started to recover from in the last year.

Watch “Rescue Me.” Tommy Gavin is very, very similar to me. [/quote]

I can definitely understand losing someone you love, and wanting to see them again. That, along with accepting the possibility of my own mortality, was probably the single hardest thing about admitting that I didn’t really have all the answers. What I do know is that we should make the most of every minute we have with our loved ones, here and now. That way, we enjoy them to the fullest extent, and if we are lucky enough to see them again that is just icing on the cake.

66

[quote]forlife wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If I knew that there was a god, probably.

I’ve known a lot of people that died; many of them far before their time. They were watershed moments for me that I’ve only started to recover from in the last year.

Watch “Rescue Me.” Tommy Gavin is very, very similar to me.

I can definitely understand losing someone you love, and wanting to see them again. That, along with accepting the possibility of my own mortality, was probably the single hardest thing about admitting that I didn’t really have all the answers. What I do know is that we should make the most of every minute we have with our loved ones, here and now. That way, we enjoy them to the fullest extent, and if we are lucky enough to see them again that is just icing on the cake.[/quote]

I’m Irish man. That ain’t good enough.

67

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
makkun wrote:
I think the question is not so much if you can be ‘happy’ as an agnostic/atheist, or whether the agnosticism/atheism has contributed to the person’s happyness and general positive outlook on life.

I for myself remember the day (after years of thinking on the topic) when I came to my personal conclusion that a) life has no deeper meaning and b) there is no god. I felt a profound sense of happiness and closure on spiritual questions that day, and have - even when confronted with personal misery - never looked back (in about 15 years now). Also, it helped me to focus the need to act ethically on my personal responsibility and relationships with others, not the authority of an external ‘higher’ authority.

I realise that the above conclusions will not make everyone happy, but for me it worked to get a lot of questions out of the way that seem to bother many other people.

Makkun

This is a very rational point of view. Unless a person has direct experience, they often will simply dismiss an idea, and that’s a good thing.

Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.

What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.

That strikes me as slightly odd. Why would you want a God that was so capricious and fickle?

Those are human traits, so there’s really no comparison. I know that you’re using concepts with which you are familiar though.

What I said makes sense though if you try and answer the age-old questions about good and evil, why one person gets a miracle while the other does not. God simply encourages what he wants and ignores the rest.

I teach high school. Do I really care about those who have no desire to learn? Nah. Its a waste of time. So I look for that attitude in a student and go from there. Same way, God looks for something, finds it, and ignores the leftovers.

If God hasn’t spoken to someone, maybe they’re a ‘leftover’.

[/quote]

Please tell me you don’t teach science…

68

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
forlife wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If I knew that there was a god, probably.

I’ve known a lot of people that died; many of them far before their time. They were watershed moments for me that I’ve only started to recover from in the last year.

Watch “Rescue Me.” Tommy Gavin is very, very similar to me.

I can definitely understand losing someone you love, and wanting to see them again. That, along with accepting the possibility of my own mortality, was probably the single hardest thing about admitting that I didn’t really have all the answers. What I do know is that we should make the most of every minute we have with our loved ones, here and now. That way, we enjoy them to the fullest extent, and if we are lucky enough to see them again that is just icing on the cake.

I’m Irish man. That ain’t good enough. [/quote]

Irish something I wanted to check, are you Irish as in born and raised in Ireland, or Irish as in a white boxer in the US who is not Italian?

69

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Irish something I wanted to check, are you Irish as in born and raised in Ireland, or Irish as in a white boxer in the US who is not Italian?[/quote]

No no, I’m American, Irish-American as some like to call it (although I don’t believe in calling it that.)

I’m actually part Italian too, as most folks in NJ are.

Why?

70

Is he anything like this?

71

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
The question of whether or not there is a god and an afterlife is the biggest issue in my life. Always has been.

The fact that I’m not sure directly contributes to the amount I drink.

Is it possible to be happy? Sure, for some people. For me, no.

Happiness is old, white and conservative…you may want to join the crowd??
[/quote]

Good One :slight_smile: I really find it funny you added white

72

[quote]forlife wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If I knew that there was a god, probably.

I’ve known a lot of people that died; many of them far before their time. They were watershed moments for me that I’ve only started to recover from in the last year.

Watch “Rescue Me.” Tommy Gavin is very, very similar to me.

I can definitely understand losing someone you love, and wanting to see them again. That, along with accepting the possibility of my own mortality, was probably the single hardest thing about admitting that I didn’t really have all the answers. What I do know is that we should make the most of every minute we have with our loved ones, here and now. That way, we enjoy them to the fullest extent, and if we are lucky enough to see them again that is just icing on the cake.[/quote]

The hardest part is realizing that there truly is no such thing as death. Do you die when you take off your suit? No. Similarly, dying is just taking off your body.

Life cannot come from non-life. Life is eternal. Most will see their loved ones and simply become part of God’s consciousness. Many will recycle for some reason of God’s. But life can only come from life. Maybe that’s why rocks don’t give birth?

73

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
makkun wrote:
I think the question is not so much if you can be ‘happy’ as an agnostic/atheist, or whether the agnosticism/atheism has contributed to the person’s happyness and general positive outlook on life.

I for myself remember the day (after years of thinking on the topic) when I came to my personal conclusion that a) life has no deeper meaning and b) there is no god. I felt a profound sense of happiness and closure on spiritual questions that day, and have - even when confronted with personal misery - never looked back (in about 15 years now). Also, it helped me to focus the need to act ethically on my personal responsibility and relationships with others, not the authority of an external ‘higher’ authority.

I realise that the above conclusions will not make everyone happy, but for me it worked to get a lot of questions out of the way that seem to bother many other people.

Makkun

This is a very rational point of view. Unless a person has direct experience, they often will simply dismiss an idea, and that’s a good thing.

Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.

What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.

That strikes me as slightly odd. Why would you want a God that was so capricious and fickle?

Those are human traits, so there’s really no comparison. I know that you’re using concepts with which you are familiar though.

What I said makes sense though if you try and answer the age-old questions about good and evil, why one person gets a miracle while the other does not. God simply encourages what he wants and ignores the rest.

I teach high school. Do I really care about those who have no desire to learn? Nah. Its a waste of time. So I look for that attitude in a student and go from there. Same way, God looks for something, finds it, and ignores the leftovers.

If God hasn’t spoken to someone, maybe they’re a ‘leftover’.

Please tell me you don’t teach science…[/quote]

No longer. I teach maths, and symbolic logic (the Laws of Human Thought) as the foundation of math. One of my degrees is in Philosophy (others are math, history, Masters in math ed)

74

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

Headhunter wrote:
Always happy to deliver for a fan. I CAN ask but if you don’t have what HE wants, you’re out of luck. God is like a movie director or producer – He chooses a few while the rest wind up taking the bus back to Montana and points therein.

Is he anything like this?

- YouTube [/quote]

No, but here’s a pretty accurate pic.

75

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[…]This is a very rational point of view. Unless a person has direct experience, they often will simply dismiss an idea, and that’s a good thing.

Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.

What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.[/quote]

Since no deity has ever spoken to me, I obviously can’t really understand - but given your brilliant self-analysis, who am I to argue? :wink:

Makkun

PS: Thanks for the usage of ‘rational’- I see that as a compliment.

76

[quote]Dustin wrote:
[…]God’s existence doesn’t justify our responsibility to treat others with dignity.[/quote]

I fully agree - that’s the original agnostic assertion I made which later led me further away from religion. But yeah, this is valid for everyone - do as good as possible towards others, irrespective of the consequences later on.

Makkun

77

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

Irish something I wanted to check, are you Irish as in born and raised in Ireland, or Irish as in a white boxer in the US who is not Italian?

No no, I’m American, Irish-American as some like to call it (although I don’t believe in calling it that.)

I’m actually part Italian too, as most folks in NJ are.

Why?[/quote]

Lol, just wondering. I find it interesting how people in the states are so proud of where their family came from.

Have you ever visited Ireland? Awesome place to go out drinking!

79

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Lol, just wondering. I find it interesting how people in the states are so proud of where their family came from.
[/quote]

It’s a strange phenomena. Only found in America, because there’s not really an American “race” per se. That’s why I don’t like calling myself an “Irish-American” or an “Italian-American.” My family was from those countries, but me, I’m as American as they come.

Although, you’re an Englishmen living in Mexico, right? If you live in Mexico for the rest of your life and raise your kids there, would you have them thinking that they’re Mexicans? Same kind of thing I guess.

[quote]
Have you ever visited Ireland? Awesome place to go out drinking![/quote]

Not yet. Have every intention though… Seems like a beautiful place. With some kickass bars, of course… haha.

80

Drinking with Irish people is dangerous! I would really recommend taking a trip there, you will not be dissapointed.

Here in Mexico, people who can trace their family back to Spain within a couple of generations will let you know within about 2 minutes of you meeting them.

My Daughter has dual nationality, she was born here. I keep telling her she is English but she corrects me and says that she is Mexican. I actually am not that bothered as long as she supports England at football and can speak English (the latter being more about job prospects than any emotional tie to England.)

With my work, there is a fair chance that we will end up moving somewhere else at some point (Philippines or India at a guess,) I love Mexico but could be happy pretty much anywhere.

81

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Here in Mexico, people who can trace their family back to Spain within a couple of generations will let you know within about 2 minutes of you meeting them.

My Daughter has dual nationality, she was born here. I keep telling her she is English but she corrects me and says that she is Mexican. I actually am not that bothered as long as she supports England at football and can speak English (the latter being more about job prospects than any emotional tie to England.)
[/quote]

hahahah. That is funny. Go figure.