Wow looks like I wasted 10 minutes typing that up for nothing. Stupid Gays.
V
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
forlife wrote:
ironmaniac508 wrote:
Personally I believe in God and such. However I hate that mentality that if you dont go to church you are evil, and will burn in hell. Many people might go to church, but some are the most awful people you will ever meet.
Also I feel the church during the middle ages was one of the most evil things in the history of mankind. The pope was considered the leader of christian Europe. The church of old had a lot of blood on its hands, between the crusades, and inquisitions and so on. The idea behind religion should be to inspire morals, not fear.
Your post, and Vegita’s, makes me wonder if there might be a negative correlation between fundamentalism and happiness.
Thats funny forliar…given the hard data from the CDC on the high depression, anxiety and suicide rates among homosexual men.
[/quote]
Given your conduct in those threads I can understand why.
The constant yearning to kick you in the nuts probably takes a toll on gay men.
Hey, why don´t you get a badge and a gun and take your show on the road?
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Wow looks like I wasted 10 minutes typing that up for nothing. Stupid Gays.
V[/quote]
I actually liked your post, sorry I didn’t respond to it specifically 
[quote]forlife wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Wow looks like I wasted 10 minutes typing that up for nothing. Stupid Gays.
V
I actually liked your post, sorry I didn’t respond to it specifically :)[/quote]
Haha I was just joshin ya anyways. It’s friday and I feel like a pent up monkey. I just feel like throwing my poo on everyone today.
V
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Quick - Forlife needs someone to validate his worldview.[/quote]
Typically “Christian” of you.
He asked a legit question. What’s your problem?
[quote]makkun wrote:
Also, it helped me to focus the need to act ethically on my personal responsibility and relationships with others, not the authority of an external ‘higher’ authority.
Makkun[/quote]
Good post! The portion I highlighted is most important to me. I/we should all act this way regardless if there is a God or not. God’s existence doesn’t justify our responsibility to treat others with dignity.
[quote]forlife wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I disagree, I label philosophy and morality as supernatural endeavors. They attempt to answer the same questions religion does. I even consider religions branches of moral philosophy. Things like the Christian philosophy ring any bells?
Morals are not things of the scientific world. Believing in morals is believing in something not of the ordinary world, or if you will, something supernatural. You have faith in something with no scientific factual base, outside of the tangible world, that can only be investigated by thought, as an ultimate guiding force for human behavior. Sounds pretty supernatural to me. Now all you need is a group of followers and some codified beliefs. Then you�¢??d have a religion. =0)
Usually, the term supernatural refers to non-mundane explanations for events in the material world. Ethics, morality, and philosophy are ideas rather than material quantities. Which is why they are outside the domain of science.
My point was that you can have morals without believing in supernatural intervention in the material world.[/quote]
Of or relating to existence outside the natural world, morals and philosophy to the t. (I also just wanted to note that pretty much all philosophical constructs fall into this category, not exclusively morals, value, beauty, ownership, rights, good, bad, evil, pleasure, love, est.)
You also have to remember that you can believe in god without believing in supernatural intervention. Deists are a perfect example of this. They reject â??miraclesâ?? and even revelation without rejecting the supernatural.
Not believing in the physical intervention of the supernatural isnâ??t the exclusive domain of the atheist. Supernatural includes things far beyond specifically physical intervention.
Further, morals effect daily actions of humans, and they are supernatural => morals are supernatural intervention.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.
What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.
[/quote]
Ever since I learned not to take you seriously, I actually look forward to your posts, and this one doesn’t disappoint.
If you get a chance, could you ask Him to give me a call?
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
makkun wrote:
I think the question is not so much if you can be ‘happy’ as an agnostic/atheist, or whether the agnosticism/atheism has contributed to the person’s happyness and general positive outlook on life.
I for myself remember the day (after years of thinking on the topic) when I came to my personal conclusion that a) life has no deeper meaning and b) there is no god. I felt a profound sense of happiness and closure on spiritual questions that day, and have - even when confronted with personal misery - never looked back (in about 15 years now). Also, it helped me to focus the need to act ethically on my personal responsibility and relationships with others, not the authority of an external ‘higher’ authority.
I realise that the above conclusions will not make everyone happy, but for me it worked to get a lot of questions out of the way that seem to bother many other people.
Makkun
This is a very rational point of view. Unless a person has direct experience, they often will simply dismiss an idea, and that’s a good thing.
Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.
What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.
That strikes me as slightly odd. Why would you want a God that was so capricious and fickle?[/quote]
Those are human traits, so there’s really no comparison. I know that you’re using concepts with which you are familiar though.
What I said makes sense though if you try and answer the age-old questions about good and evil, why one person gets a miracle while the other does not. God simply encourages what he wants and ignores the rest.
I teach high school. Do I really care about those who have no desire to learn? Nah. Its a waste of time. So I look for that attitude in a student and go from there. Same way, God looks for something, finds it, and ignores the leftovers.
If God hasn’t spoken to someone, maybe they’re a ‘leftover’.
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Now, the fact is that God initiated the creation of billions of beings in order to have a better shot at producing desireable beings, much like an animal breeder does, to pick out the best seed stock. Just like slaveowners in the pre-Civil War era bred black people for a speciific goal, God picks and chooses. If God never picks someone, it simply means that that person didn’t ‘make the cut’ so to speak.
What qualities those are, only God knows. Since God has spoken to me, I’d suppose that being kind of crazy was something He looks for.
Ever since I learned not to take you seriously, I actually look forward to your posts, and this one doesn’t disappoint.
If you get a chance, could you ask Him to give me a call?[/quote]
Always happy to deliver for a fan. I CAN ask but if you don’t have what HE wants, you’re out of luck. God is like a movie director or producer – He chooses a few while the rest wind up taking the bus back to Montana and points therein.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Further, morals effect daily actions of humans, and they are supernatural => morals are supernatural intervention.
[/quote]
By your definition:
Peanut butter is supernatural because it tastes delicious.
Flowers are supernatural because they are beautiful.
Sex is supernatural because it feels so good.
I’m not really interested in arguing semantics though.
The point is that people don’t need to believe in a god in order to have morals, and align their life with those morals. Fundamentalists claim that without theism, the world would devolve into total anarchy.
It’s understandable, because their personal morality is defined by the belief in a god. But they’re missing the fact that many people value love, courage, and integrity for their own sake, independent of the threat of damnation if they don’t.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Always happy to deliver for a fan. I CAN ask but if you don’t have what HE wants, you’re out of luck. God is like a movie director or producer – He chooses a few while the rest wind up taking the bus back to Montana and points therein.
[/quote]
It must feel pretty cool to be hand picked by the Almighty Creator of the Universe. I mean, dude.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Always happy to deliver for a fan. I CAN ask but if you don’t have what HE wants, you’re out of luck. God is like a movie director or producer – He chooses a few while the rest wind up taking the bus back to Montana and points therein.
It must feel pretty cool to be hand picked by the Almighty Creator of the Universe. I mean, dude.[/quote]
Na, it gets kinda old after a while to be honest. Fucker thinks no rules apply to him so i’m like in a deep sleep or in the middle of wanking it and he does the loud boomy voice thing just to mess with me. It’s ok though, last night I spanked it to an image of his old lady. That will teach the old fart.
V
[quote]forlife wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
The question of whether or not there is a god and an afterlife is the biggest issue in my life. Always has been.
The fact that I’m not sure directly contributes to the amount I drink.
Is it possible to be happy? Sure, for some people. For me, no.
Why should our happiness depend on believing that there is a god and an afterlife?
Once I thought about it, living forever would be the ultimate hell. Once you’ve tried all the ice cream flavors, maxed out all the equipment in the gym, and had countless conversations with your friends, what else is there to enjoy? I mean, forever is a damn long, long, long…long time.
Not that I would snub my nose at a few hundred extra years. But forever? No thanks.[/quote]
I didn’t say that yours should- I said that whether there is or not has a tremendous impact on mine.
I was a philosophy major for a long time… these questions are what keeps me going. The God one especially.
That’s cool, I wasn’t saying it shouldn’t impact your happiness. Out of curiosity, why does it though? Would you be more happy if you truly believed you were going to live forever?
[quote]forlife wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Further, morals effect daily actions of humans, and they are supernatural => morals are supernatural intervention.
By your definition:
Peanut butter is supernatural because it tastes delicious.
Flowers are supernatural because they are beautiful.
Sex is supernatural because it feels so good.
I’m not really interested in arguing semantics though.
The point is that people don’t need to believe in a god in order to have morals, and align their life with those morals. Fundamentalists claim that without theism, the world would devolve into total anarchy.
It’s understandable, because their personal morality is defined by the belief in a god. But they’re missing the fact that many people value love, courage, and integrity for their own sake, independent of the threat of damnation if they don’t.
[/quote]
Oh, please, you always are hell bent on semantics. And second, itâ??s not my definition, it is the English languageâ??s.
And yes, that is exactly my point. The assigning of value is supernatural. Value is an entirely arbitrary, unquantifiable, unscientific supernatural concept. If you believe in any of those things, it is indeed a spiritual endeavor.
Many atheists believe in pleasure and the pursuit of pleasure in life. Right that down in a book, and it is religion (itâ??s been done several times before).
I mean, religion is essentially assigning the values of good and bad to the world. Now religion generally focuses on the more significant things in life like killing or charity, est. But love your neighbor (love =good) and flowers are beautiful (beauty=good) follow the very same supernatural assignment of value.
My point is that I donâ??t believe Iâ??ve ever met a person that was truly atheist in the since of rejecting all spirituality. I think you are arguing semantics by saying you donâ??t believe in the spiritual. Because I think you just think your shit donâ??t stink.
I did a search of “supernatural” on the Wiki link you provided, but there weren’t any hits.
Here’s an actual definition for you:
[quote]1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.
4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.[/quote]
If you want to label all morals as supernatural, go for it. I disagree, but it’s irrelevant. As long as you don’t try claiming that people have to believe in a god in order to have morals, we cool.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I did a search of “supernatural” on the Wiki link you provided, but there weren’t any hits.
Here’s an actual definition for you:
- of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
- of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
- of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.
- of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
If you want to label all morals as supernatural, go for it. I disagree, but it’s irrelevant. As long as you don’t try claiming that people have to believe in a god in order to have morals, we cool.[/quote]
Also form wiki:
Supernatural, refers to forces and phenomena which are beyond ordinary scientific understanding. Concepts in the supernatural domain are closely related to concepts in religious spirituality and metaphysics.
Natural philosophy, metaphysics, ethics, religion, est. are all kindred spirits (pardon the theological pun). Whatever you want to call the field. Most religions use revelation as a basis, and I understand your problem with that (I have issues of revelation yielding value assignment myself). But revelation, or even a god, is not a necessity of spirituality or religion.
Essentially I’m claiming morals are your god, not morals necessitate a god.