I get the summer/winter blend thing from an environmental standpoint. The question to me isn’t why we have that it’s why don’t we have the facilities to make more of it. We could use 6 or 7 more refineries here in order to keep up with our demand.
I’d be OK with the taxes if they went directly to work on our roads.
james
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Pitt -
If oil companies have such control over prices why did they let oil crash to $35/barrel in 08/09 and then let it stay sub $50 for over 6 months?
Are you aware that most of the Canadian oil sands oil has a marginal cost of $60 + ? (and remember that this is the cost of producing the unrefined product…)
Are you aware that most of the large oil companies are public companies and as such, you have full access to their financial statements ?
Here are the most recent profit margins for some well known companies:
Exon - 10.37%
Shell- 5.52%
BP - 4.58%
Outrageous isn’t it ? Getting 5 bucks in your pocket for every $100 in sales !! [/quote]
You seem to be quite an expert , I am sure that is considering the profit right down to Retail(NOT)
Shell from ground to pump Shell USA - Wikipedia
These are FUCKING HUGE COMGLOMERATES glad you can wrap your mind around them with such ease
I hope you are making a killing in the market
[/quote]
Could you explain this ? ( I mean this sincerely and not as any sort of provocation).
I could be wrong ( I’m far from an expert on this) but it’s my understanding that Shell is a fully integrated gas and oil company and that the profits available to the shareholders of “Shell” (RDSA, RDSB) accrue from all segments of Shells operations and not just one. Ie. when you buy stock in Shell you hold interest in all segments of operations from exploration to retail. If that is the case then my point still stands regarding the figures I stated and the profit margin for the operation as a whole, for the last 12 months, was 5.5%.
Most of these companies own at least partically most of these, the the driller , the refiner, the transporter , the pipe line , the advertiser and the retailer
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
because maybe people will FINALLY see how this Democratic Mafia is and has been fucking up this country club known as California with their policies that made us drop from 5th largest economy to the 9th.[/quote]
Well, typically we don’t do anything unless there is a crisis. Maybe this is the crisis we need.
And people shouldn’t be pissed about the profit from Shell. They should be pissed about the distinct lack of competition in the marketplace amongst suppliers. Sure, the gas stations are mom and pop but they all get their gas from one place. Why not force the oil drill companies to be different than the refineries?
james
[/quote]
Do you know that we have this stupid summer and winter blend, which adds almost $1 per gallon ?
Also, 50 cents of every gallon of gas is pure tax ? Only in California too !
[/quote]
I am not expert of the blend I will tell you for people that have never been to La 160 some cities back to back stacked on top each other 4 hours to cross not even considering traffic. The Bay area is not much different. By the way your air still sucks 
Cali is one bigg mass of humanity
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Pitt -
If oil companies have such control over prices why did they let oil crash to $35/barrel in 08/09 and then let it stay sub $50 for over 6 months?
Are you aware that most of the Canadian oil sands oil has a marginal cost of $60 + ? (and remember that this is the cost of producing the unrefined product…)
Are you aware that most of the large oil companies are public companies and as such, you have full access to their financial statements ?
Here are the most recent profit margins for some well known companies:
Exon - 10.37%
Shell- 5.52%
BP - 4.58%
Outrageous isn’t it ? Getting 5 bucks in your pocket for every $100 in sales !! [/quote]
You seem to be quite an expert , I am sure that is considering the profit right down to Retail(NOT)
Shell from ground to pump Shell USA - Wikipedia
These are FUCKING HUGE COMGLOMERATES glad you can wrap your mind around them with such ease
I hope you are making a killing in the market
[/quote]
Could you explain this ? ( I mean this sincerely and not as any sort of provocation).
I could be wrong ( I’m far from an expert on this) but it’s my understanding that Shell is a fully integrated gas and oil company and that the profits available to the shareholders of “Shell” (RDSA, RDSB) accrue from all segments of Shells operations and not just one. Ie. when you buy stock in Shell you hold interest in all segments of operations from exploration to retail. If that is the case then my point still stands regarding the figures I stated and the profit margin for the operation as a whole, for the last 12 months, was 5.5%.
Most of these companies own at least partically most of these, the the driller , the refiner, the transporter , the pipe line , the advertiser and the retailer
[/quote]
Ok,
Did you look at the link I provided? Do you see that the number I provided, the 5.5%, is the margin for the whole of the operation and not just one segment? ( You can check the other ones too)
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Pitt -
If oil companies have such control over prices why did they let oil crash to $35/barrel in 08/09 and then let it stay sub $50 for over 6 months?
Are you aware that most of the Canadian oil sands oil has a marginal cost of $60 + ? (and remember that this is the cost of producing the unrefined product…)
Are you aware that most of the large oil companies are public companies and as such, you have full access to their financial statements ?
Here are the most recent profit margins for some well known companies:
Exon - 10.37%
Shell- 5.52%
BP - 4.58%
Outrageous isn’t it ? Getting 5 bucks in your pocket for every $100 in sales !! [/quote]
You seem to be quite an expert , I am sure that is considering the profit right down to Retail(NOT)
Shell from ground to pump Shell USA - Wikipedia
These are FUCKING HUGE COMGLOMERATES glad you can wrap your mind around them with such ease
I hope you are making a killing in the market
[/quote]
Could you explain this ? ( I mean this sincerely and not as any sort of provocation).
I could be wrong ( I’m far from an expert on this) but it’s my understanding that Shell is a fully integrated gas and oil company and that the profits available to the shareholders of “Shell” (RDSA, RDSB) accrue from all segments of Shells operations and not just one. Ie. when you buy stock in Shell you hold interest in all segments of operations from exploration to retail. If that is the case then my point still stands regarding the figures I stated and the profit margin for the operation as a whole, for the last 12 months, was 5.5%.
Most of these companies own at least partically most of these, the the driller , the refiner, the transporter , the pipe line , the advertiser and the retailer
[/quote]
Ok,
Did you look at the link I provided? Do you see that the number I provided, the 5.5%, is the margin for the whole of the operation and not just one segment? ( You can check the other ones too)
[/quote]
You will have to exp-lain it to me
were your profits just in America ?
It looks to me that %5.52 was a quarterly profit
Return on asset and return on equity may not be the bottom line but it also could be deemed as profit.
In my opinion to see the whole profit of shell oil would be such a major undertaking it would not fit in one book let alone 1 paragraph . You would have to look at Gross profits and every line of expenditures to see the true profit
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In my opinion to see the whole profit of shell oil would be such a major undertaking it would not fit in one book let alone 1 paragraph . You would have to look at Gross profits and every line of expenditures to see the true profit[/quote]
Two questions:
What do you suppose causes prices to come down?
I’ll answer that for you, it’s competition.
Second question:
Is Obama helping or hurting the US by NOT allowing drilling on federal lands?
The answer is he’s hurting us.
Just as he hurt us by spending 90 billion dollars on failed green energy companies. Not one of them produced a thing…all losers!
Zeb, drilling on federal land won’t lower our gas prices. All gas goes into the open market for sale. The only way for drilling like you suggested to work would for the govt to step in and give the fuel to U.S. refineries or sell it at a lower cost. Thanks to the global economy it’s simply not as easy as drill more to put more oil in the system.
james
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In my opinion to see the whole profit of shell oil would be such a major undertaking it would not fit in one book let alone 1 paragraph . You would have to look at Gross profits and every line of expenditures to see the true profit[/quote]
If only public compaines had to compile their financial information into statements, and if only we had professionals that audited those statements to vouch for their accuracy…
Oh what a world we would live in.
Imagine
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In my opinion to see the whole profit of shell oil would be such a major undertaking it would not fit in one book let alone 1 paragraph . You would have to look at Gross profits and every line of expenditures to see the true profit[/quote]
If only public compaines had to compile their financial information into statements, and if only we had professionals that audited those statements to vouch for their accuracy…
Oh what a world we would live in.
Imagine[/quote]
Thank you beans.
Pitt, what you are saying is exactly what is done.
Return on assets, return on equity etc. are just different ways of looking at the same thing. You seem to be suggesting that you would have to “add” them together to get some sort of “true profit” figure. This is very bizarre and shows just how far outside any area of expertise of yours you are when discussing this.
That you’re unaware (or were) that public companies compile public statements is also very telling.
Net Income = Total Sales - Total expenditures
Profit margin = Net Income/Sales
Return on Equity = Net Income/Equity
For the last 12 months Shell had net income of 26B. They had sales of 476B. 26/476 = 5.5%
Return on Assets was 7%, Return on Equity was 15 %. That doesn’t in any way change their profit margin though…
Here is a link to their 2011 Annual report in PDF.
This is why ratios and relative figures are so important.
26 Billion is a huge number. But it is quite irrelevant ON ITS OWN. To quote a number like that on its own completely ignores how much money was invested to make it, how much had to be sold etc.
If I had a small business and had sales of $500,000 and profits of $25,000 would you call it outrageous ???
I doubt it… but this really no different than Shell’s current situation…
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Zeb, drilling on federal land won’t lower our gas prices. All gas goes into the open market for sale. The only way for drilling like you suggested to work would for the govt to step in and give the fuel to U.S. refineries or sell it at a lower cost. Thanks to the global economy it’s simply not as easy as drill more to put more oil in the system.
james[/quote]
That was well said James, unfortunately though you are wrong.
The price of gasoline would drop over night if the socialist and chief even announced that we would begin massive drilling.
Know why jimbo?
Because markets are driven by one word…“expectations”.
Go figure huh?
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Zeb, drilling on federal land won’t lower our gas prices. All gas goes into the open market for sale. The only way for drilling like you suggested to work would for the govt to step in and give the fuel to U.S. refineries or sell it at a lower cost. Thanks to the global economy it’s simply not as easy as drill more to put more oil in the system.
james[/quote]
I think you are partially right. Oil is sold into the open market so any increase in production in a given area is diluted across the whole market.
Increases in production should still though put downward pressure on prices ( but just not solely where the production takes place)
Bottlenecks are also important to consider ( Discount between Brent and WTI ). Apparently the Keystone pipeline would largely solve this.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
That was well said James, unfortunately though you are wrong.
The price of gasoline would drop over night if the socialist and chief even announced that we would begin massive drilling.
Know why jimbo?
Because markets are driven by one word…“expectations”.
Go figure huh?[/quote]
Sorta. Let’s not forget that we are not the only country demanding fuel. Not to mention that we are going to have a limited supply of summer blended fuel as we have a pretty limited number of refineries given the size of our market. Think of a fireplace that’s small and trying to heat a big house. The answer isn’t going to be to put more wood in there because it can’t burn it. You need more fireplaces.
There might be a sudden drop in prices due to speculation but I bet it would quickly go right up again as demand increases. Just a guess though.
james
California’s STOOOOPID regulations have added at least 50 cents per gallon, then CA’s gas tax is also another 50 cents per gallon.
Has any other state followed California with such stupid policies ?
Has any other state followed California with passing their own Global Warming Law ?
Nuff said.