Buying A Crotch Rocket

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
Take the MSF class. Get a Ninja 250 or a 500. Learn how to drag pegs with it and get yourself into and out of bad spots. Sell it in a year for as much as you bought it for. Then buy race rep of your choice. It’s a lot less glamorous than hopping onto a CBR-RR or GSX-R, but it’s a lot safer.

A 600cc race rep is a serious machine. Most will outrun and out brake all but the fastest cars. Youcould give a 16 year old kid the keys to a Ferrari Enzo, but they won’t be able to do much with it. They haven’t developed the skills to handle one properly near the limits. Similarly, you might be able to ride a 600 or liter bike, but when something bad happens, will you be able to handle it safely? The guy above me says you don’t buy a car to crash it, so why buy a bike to drop it? Well, riding a bike is a lot harder than driving a car. Everything happens a lot faster and you don’t get the stability of 4 wheels. A race rep is on the fine line of performance and can be unforgiving.

It’s not even just the engine, it’s the suspension geometry and the brakes. A more forgiving and cheaper bike means you can push your limits more gradually without the bike biting you in the ass. And if you have a bad crash,it’s also not going to hurt your wallet as much.

In a car, you make a mistake, you lock up the wheels, it skids a bit, you shake up your nerves and life goes on. In a bike, you lock up the wheels, you stop turning, the bike might get traction and throw you off, it might slide under. A lot of things you can get away with in a car, can be damaging, costly or even fatal on a bike.

I know because I traded my Ninja 500 for a gorgeous Ducati with some giant Brembos up front after 2 months of riding. I’m going around a turn, a van runs a stop, I grab a little too much brake, the front tire locks up, bike wobbles, bites in and throws me over the front. Bike slides 30 feet. That’s scraped knees and bruised wrists for me and about 2 grand in damage to the bike.

Can you start out on a 600 or bigger? Yes. Will you learn more safely if you start smaller, slower and less sporty? Probably. If you buy a used 250 or 500, you can abuse it and resell it without losing any value. You might not look cool riding around on a doofy bike for a few months. But if that keeps you from highsiding your bike if a car cuts you off, then I think it’s a pretty worthy sacrifice.[/quote]

for the win! ^ The first sentence is gold. And buy used. You WILL drop your first bike. I have yet to meet a single person who hasn’t dropped theirs, when they first started to ride. Riding is a skill that has to be developed with time in the saddle, just like anything else.

As for brand, they are all close to the same. Different people like different bikes. I’m a Yama Hammer fan because I used to work as a mechanic, obviously a bike shop. PM if you want more information.

FYI that’s a picture of me in '04 at Spokane, WA.

I really was going to suggest the track, but someone beat me to it. Oh well ; ) But think seriously about the track. It’s awesome when a guy on a 600 or smaller drives around a guy on a liter bike, or larger. They only reason a thousand can keep up, the straight.

Most people think racing is really expensive. It is, yet you have to realize the reason it is expensive, because of all the gear required. You HAVE to have a DOT helmet, full gear, gloves, boots and a back protector. The gear serves a purpose though. I wrecked at the track a solid dozen times. EVERY SINGLE time, I would stand up and walk over to the bike, stand the bike up, throw a leg over, start the engine and ride away. I can’t make the same claim with the street.

The above picture is from May '05. My bike broke the crank bearing in '04 after a track day. I was on a buddies bike. He had the exact same bike, except Charline’s was an '02 with out the track improvements. I THOUGHT I knew how to ride. A girl turned in front of me and you see the result. Just food for thought.

I didn’t know this many people rode bikes.

Can I ask…what’s the best helmet and does anyone know if they can be custom made to fit better?

I have a big head. I don’t really like looking like I am moon walking every time I hope on my horse.

I went through a couple of HJC helmets…they aren’t the best but they did what they had to till I could afford something better. I basically just keep them for anyone that jumps on the back now. I would say Arai and Shoei are the best out there. I persoanally like Arai helmets…it’s quiter inside when your riding and they fit better for me. If you have a bigger head then I would look at the Shoei helmets.

Also I bought a flat black Arai…saved serious $ because it had no design on it. Now I’m having someone air brush my own design on the helmet. I know the kid pretty well so its geting done for a good deal. Still the amount spent on the flat black helmet with the air brush is cheaper then any Arai or Shoei graphic helmet.

Check out sportbiketrackear.com…I think they give the best advice on clothing,parts, and accessories.

Think about what you want as you crash. Would you want a half helmet or even a flip up? I sure wouldn’t. Buy a decently priced American product, like Joe Rocket. Or even an Arai, I know a number of guys who like Shoe’s, yet every time I had one on, I wrecked. The most recent almost killing me. Just personal preference now : ) Don’t buy used, you have no idea of the history of the helmet.

As for custom, not sure but anything ‘custom’ will be very expensive. When I rode, I was never worried about what the cagers thought ; )

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t know this many people rode bikes.

Can I ask…what’s the best helmet and does anyone know if they can be custom made to fit better?

I have a big head. I don’t really like looking like I am moon walking every time I hope on my horse.[/quote]

[quote]SeanParent wrote:
I went through a couple of HJC helmets…they aren’t the best but they did what they had to till I could afford something better. I basically just keep them for anyone that jumps on the back now. I would say Arai and Shoei are the best out there. I persoanally like Arai helmets…it’s quiter inside when your riding and they fit better for me. If you have a bigger head then I would look at the Shoei helmets.

Also I bought a flat black Arai…saved serious $ because it had no design on it. Now I’m having someone air brush my own design on the helmet. I know the kid pretty well so its geting done for a good deal. Still the amount spent on the flat black helmet with the air brush is cheaper then any Arai or Shoei graphic helmet.

Check out sportbiketrackear.com…I think they give the best advice on clothing,parts, and accessories.
[/quote]

I have a Scorpion now which is unmatched when it comes to fog prevention on the shield and their liners come out so you can throw them in the wash. I would actually consider them some of the best for the money…but I guess I was really asking about top end helmets…which I guess the Arai and Shoei you mentioned are. I just hate that the XXL’s are usually “bulky”.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Think about what you want as you crash. Would you want a half helmet or even a flip up? I sure wouldn’t. Buy a decently priced American product, like Joe Rocket. Or even an Arai, I know a number of guys who like Shoe’s, yet every time I had one on, I wrecked. The most recent almost killing me. Just personal preference now : ) Don’t buy used, you have no idea of the history of the helmet.

As for custom, not sure but anything ‘custom’ will be very expensive. When I rode, I was never worried about what the cagers thought ; )

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t know this many people rode bikes.

Can I ask…what’s the best helmet and does anyone know if they can be custom made to fit better?

I have a big head. I don’t really like looking like I am moon walking every time I hope on my horse.[/quote]
[/quote]

How many wrecks have you had?

All of these were on the street?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t know this many people rode bikes.

Can I ask…what’s the best helmet and does anyone know if they can be custom made to fit better?

I have a big head. I don’t really like looking like I am moon walking every time I hope on my horse.[/quote]

I have a big head and the only helmet I’ve ever found comfortable and doesn’t make me look like an orange on a toothpick is HJC.

[quote]Xander89 wrote:
I’ve been thinking about buying a crotch rocket for well over a year, and have been putting aside some money for one for almost as long. I haven’t really done a lot of research (looking into the issue for 15-20 minutes every couple weeks or so), and I plan on doing a lot more before finally making a purchase. Summer’s coming up in a couple months, just long enough for me to finalize an idea of what I want.

So I ask: What do you know about crotch rockets that you consider “need to know” info before deciding on a sale? What’s been the best (most reliable, price, etc) brand over the last 5 years? 10 years? Ever? What’s a good mileage number on used crotch rockets? Obviously zero is the best, but how high will you go? What’s a good CC number?

I realize this is predominately a lifting site, and information on crotch rockets isn’t high, so whatever information I get here won’t be the deciding factor. I’m still curious as to what information I can get though.

Let’s hear your thoughts![/quote]

Eight years ago I bought a GSXR600 as my first bike, I still have it and still love it. It’s very easy to ride (although the CBR600 may be even easier to ride). If I were to buy a new one now it would be an R1.

hahaha Yeah, I have had a few. Had one in '03, the first day I owed the bike! I had a friends Shoei on. The bike never even fell over. I hit a guard rail, I was catapulted off and broke my L humerous. I was pretty heavy into the bb thing at the time. That fact kept my arm ‘set’ until I made it to the hospital.

I wrecked a few times on the street but they were never serious. A buddy got me up to a track in the spring of '04. After that I invested any penny I could scratch up to run at the track.

I broke the #4 crank bearing during the fall of '04, it was under a Yamaha Extended Service (YES) warranty. My friend was working on sleds all winter so my bike went on his back burner. Another friend came over May 1, '05 and after a MotoGP race he let me ride his bike. He had a custom painted Shoie. I really thought I had some abilities to ride (that was my second big wreck while on the street). ~12 at the track, every time I rode away after crashing.,

lol Shows how stupid I was. Have you heard of Norick Abe? Here is his Wiki page - Norifumi Abe - Wikipedia - his death was on 10/7/07, while on a scooter!! He raced in MotoGP for a little over ten years, then moved to Superbike. Obviously, he knew how to ride and the street STILL killed him. Take your skills to a track, the street is no place for ‘racing’.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

How many wrecks have you had?

All of these were on the street?[/quote]

your ego will over power your brain until you have some skill.

A busa is made only to go fast in a straight line. They are MASSIVE and just as heavy. A heavy bike is no fun to ride through any corner at speed. IMO that’s where the best part, through the apex.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
I think both sides have an amazing point here, but I think we can agree that the OP should buy a BEGINNER bike. Even a beginner bike can mess you up pretty badly, it is just more forgiving. Any R1, R6, or RR type bike is probably out of your riding capabilities for a while anyway.

I am not sure what you are looking for (twin, inline, ?), but I would recommend searching Google for “beginner bike.” You will see a lot of recommendations for CBR-F4i (Honda’s hard to work on?), SV650, Bandits, Blasts, etc.

If you buy soon enough, you can probably get a good, reliable bike for relatively cheap as it is still in the colder months. Search Craigslist especially! In regards to mileage, just look for a bike that seems to have been maintained, and take a friend who is knowledgeable about bikes to look over trouble areas. You can find some bikes with 70K miles still running strong or a bike with 5k miles with a blown motor.

Either way, again, all I say is buy the gear and take the MSF.[/quote]

I’d agree on the MSF course that several have mentioned. There’s a lot that can be learned especially if you take the time to pick your instructors brain.
As for the bike itself, I’d agree with the SV650 or another mid-ranged V-twin. If you’re looking used, Honda Superhawks are probably very cheap about now but have 1000cc’s of engine with an extremely smooth and predictable delivery of power. The Superhawk also comes with a couple different fairing packages, so there are more mounting points for frame and bar sliders, in addition to the subtraction of (costly) plastic.
My last piece of advice is to go all out on the helmet. I was forced off the road by a cell-phone toting lady in a mini van about 7 years ago. Went into a ditch, rode for a sec and then hit a culvert which caused one of those cool to watch end over end flips. I gladly paid another $600 for the exact same helmet that allowed me to walk away from that unscathed.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
your ego will over power your brain until you have some skill.

A busa is made only to go fast in a straight line. They are MASSIVE and just as heavy. A heavy bike is no fun to ride through any corner at speed. IMO that’s where the best part, through the apex.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]
[/quote]

Dude, I already ruled out BUSA. I said HD. Harley Davidson.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]

Most HDs come from the factory woefully under-powered, and they’re heavy bikes. The big-displacement HDs can easily have their output more than doubled (at the expense of engine life) from how they come from the factory.

A new big twin, you are talking like 56hp on an 8-900 pound bike with rider.

I wouldn’t worry about power… but dropping it sucks: parts are expensive, and if it’s your first bike, you’ll probably drop it at some point.[/quote]

Understood; but is it a “safe” first choice?

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]

Most HDs come from the factory woefully under-powered, and they’re heavy bikes. The big-displacement HDs can easily have their output more than doubled (at the expense of engine life) from how they come from the factory.

A new big twin, you are talking like 56hp on an 8-900 pound bike with rider.

I wouldn’t worry about power… but dropping it sucks: parts are expensive, and if it’s your first bike, you’ll probably drop it at some point.[/quote]

Understood; but is it a “safe” first choice?
[/quote]

Dude, there are no safe choices.

You are better off getting something that can get you out of trouble than something too slow to get up quickly.

Your concern should be all of those other people on the street who act like they can’t see motorcycles or the ones who act like they are trying to run any rider they see off the road.

Staying ahead of people like that is what can save your life.

Your other concern should be that since you likely will drop your first bike, getting a used one makes the most sense.

HD’s are loud and slow. I personally think most people get them just to say they ride a Harley.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t know this many people rode bikes.

Can I ask…what’s the best helmet and does anyone know if they can be custom made to fit better?

I have a big head. I don’t really like looking like I am moon walking every time I hope on my horse.[/quote]

Haven’t done the research for a while… So this is older info.

As all good answers it all depends, upon what your protecting against. Force, duration, angularity are known variable in impact injuries.

Snell rating is race oriented. Designed to measure protect against high impact energies. Self enforcement is a problem. Some Helmet manufacturers were caught cheating. Testing one design shipping another with snell label. Counter argument is required hard shell, may not crush to absorb enough energy and lead to short intense force where as more crush-able shell would spread the force over more time…

DOT bare legal. Studies have shown that softer helmets (particularly outer shell) may offer better protection against lower impact energies.

A rare British testing standard includes all important dwell time and may be best at providing a better model for injury protection. I could only find a Suomi locally, it was wrong size and radically overpriced.

Moon Helmet: Most manufacturers uses a limited set of sizes of outer shells then provide sizing by varying the interior foam. Seems likely to cause different performance characteristics…

As for me: I last wore Shoei… Kids wore snell rated that fit right.

Performance and survival are distinctly different skills.

My cousin was a hill racer. I stopped riding with him after he traded his tricked cb900f for GSXR. 5 of his riding friends are dead. One’s a permanent mess. They were religious about armor/gear. Any one of them could out ride me…

He’s hung up his helmet. Mines on the shelf for Personal reasons, though I Jones real bad for another bike. Trying to hold out until daughter is in college, but might not last another spring…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]

Most HDs come from the factory woefully under-powered, and they’re heavy bikes. The big-displacement HDs can easily have their output more than doubled (at the expense of engine life) from how they come from the factory.

A new big twin, you are talking like 56hp on an 8-900 pound bike with rider.

I wouldn’t worry about power… but dropping it sucks: parts are expensive, and if it’s your first bike, you’ll probably drop it at some point.[/quote]

Understood; but is it a “safe” first choice?
[/quote]

Dude, there are no safe choices.

You are better off getting something that can get you out of trouble than something too slow to get up quickly.

Your concern should be all of those other people on the street who act like they can’t see motorcycles or the ones who act like they are trying to run any rider they see off the road.

Staying ahead of people like that is what can save your life.

Your other concern should be that since you likely will drop your first bike, getting a used one makes the most sense.

HD’s are loud and slow. I personally think most people get them just to say they ride a Harley.
[/quote]

Point taken. But wouldn’t you agree that on a big liter sport bike, with a panic throttle response you could be in big trouble, as the same with a panic brake? I don’t have an opinion, I don’t have your experience…just lots of questions.

I’ve only been riding for about a year so I’m not going to pretend I’m an expert, but my opinions:

I’m not really a fan of the start on a smaller bike mentality for older folks. It’s more about maturity and respecting the bike. Take the safety class and don’t be a jackass and you’ll be fine. I have a CBR 1000 now; if anything I like the extra power to get out of trouble and it handles highway speeds no problem. I don’t ride it really hard because I know I’m not good enough yet.

My only regrets are I wish I got frame sliders put on when I bought it. Won’t save your bike in a real crash but it’ll save some headache for stupid little drops (for example my dumbass dropping it messing around with my new rear tire stand). I also wish I bought new handle bars to make long trips easier. But live and learn, I’ll hopefully take care of both of those in early spring.

And btw I think Honda is still trying to clear out their inventory of 2008 CBR 1000s. Dealers have been selling them between $7k-$8k brand new.

Good lord man, I understand that accidents happen but 6 people? That’s some bad luck or a whole lot of crazy, or both. Makes me think of those guys who post videos going 180mph on public roads.