Without knowing your finances you got to remember about insurance rates. My wife is in the insurance biz and more than once she’s delt with someone who saves all the cash for the bike and then are shocked at the cost to insure it.
[quote]WormwoodTheory wrote:
what’s you experience level? have you been riding street bikes for a while or are you a dirtbike kind of guy?
or are you new to the scene altogether?[/quote]
I’ve ridden dirtbikes, haven’t since the snow hit obviously, but it usually only takes me a couple minutes to get used to it. I was about to ask “is there a difference in how to ride it?” but obviously you wouldn’t ask if they rode the same. So I’ll ask instead “what is the difference in how to ride it?”
Topic done many times.
Maybe we need a motorcycle subforum?
Start small…but for guys like myself, Bodyguard and Holymac, starting on a 250 is just not going to cut it. My 600 was a great bike, but I got comments about how small I made the bike look almost daily.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
Take the MSF class. Get a Ninja 250 or a 500. Learn how to drag pegs with it and get yourself into and out of bad spots. Sell it in a year for as much as you bought it for. Then buy race rep of your choice. It’s a lot less glamorous than hopping onto a CBR-RR or GSX-R, but it’s a lot safer.
A 600cc race rep is a serious machine. Most will outrun and out brake all but the fastest cars. Youcould give a 16 year old kid the keys to a Ferrari Enzo, but they won’t be able to do much with it. They haven’t developed the skills to handle one properly near the limits. Similarly, you might be able to ride a 600 or liter bike, but when something bad happens, will you be able to handle it safely? The guy above me says you don’t buy a car to crash it, so why buy a bike to drop it? Well, riding a bike is a lot harder than driving a car. Everything happens a lot faster and you don’t get the stability of 4 wheels. A race rep is on the fine line of performance and can be unforgiving.
It’s not even just the engine, it’s the suspension geometry and the brakes. A more forgiving and cheaper bike means you can push your limits more gradually without the bike biting you in the ass. And if you have a bad crash,it’s also not going to hurt your wallet as much.
In a car, you make a mistake, you lock up the wheels, it skids a bit, you shake up your nerves and life goes on. In a bike, you lock up the wheels, you stop turning, the bike might get traction and throw you off, it might slide under. A lot of things you can get away with in a car, can be damaging, costly or even fatal on a bike.
I know because I traded my Ninja 500 for a gorgeous Ducati with some giant Brembos up front after 2 months of riding. I’m going around a turn, a van runs a stop, I grab a little too much brake, the front tire locks up, bike wobbles, bites in and throws me over the front. Bike slides 30 feet. That’s scraped knees and bruised wrists for me and about 2 grand in damage to the bike.
Can you start out on a 600 or bigger? Yes. Will you learn more safely if you start smaller, slower and less sporty? Probably. If you buy a used 250 or 500, you can abuse it and resell it without losing any value. You might not look cool riding around on a doofy bike for a few months. But if that keeps you from highsiding your bike if a car cuts you off, then I think it’s a pretty worthy sacrifice.[/quote]
I’ve researched the issue for over a year now. And the above echoes all the reasonable advise I have ever read. Everyone wants to go out and buy what they want, but there is an indisputable wisdom to starting small, learning and progressing. It’s just unassailable advice - not what we want to hear (I wanted a hyabusa), but sound advice.
[/quote]
Just a heads up, you should avoid the 250 and take a riding course so you can learn to handle a 600. Someone your size will outgrow that 250 in a matter of weeks…if it can hold your big ass up.
Dirt is a lot more forgiving than pavement!
In all seriousness:
-take the MSF course. It will help break some habits you no doubt developed dirtbiking.
-ATGATT (all the gear, all the time)
Whatever you buy, prepare to spend another $500 or so at least on new gear. Definitely have a helmet, gloves, jacket, above ankle boots. I would also say pants but I would be a hypocrite- I bought some riding jeans that are double ply kevlar (these would be great for the sliding portion of a wreck, but not the initial impact, therefore I am looking for real riding textiles or leathers)
For really big guys (250 -275+) and over 6’2" I can see the arguement for soemthing bigger then a 250… but really… for anyone else unless you grew up riding dirt bikes the 250 used is the way to go…
You can get the newer Ninja 250r which looks bad ass IMHO used, drive it for a year or two and sell it for within 300 of what you bought it for… I bought new (opps) but had enough experiance I wasnt worried about dropping it (havent yet knock on wood) and am glad I did… Because of the lower power I didnt loose control the first time I hit a pothole like my friend who bought a 600 did… I also learned to drag a knee faster then he did because the bike is lighter and easier to flick around… It also made me realize Id rather have a cruiser and I am glad I wont have to take the hit trying to sell a 600 (they loose value a lot faster then the 250)…
Echoing everyone else… get gear (a helmet, glooves, boots (military are cheap and work well), and a good jacket)… figure on 500 for the above…
insurance depending where you live and what company is crazy…
In Missouri my 250 was 400 a year with a 100 deductable… In alabama 2 years later its 700 a year with a 500 deductable…
oh, and whatever you get, by frame sliders … they might not add to the looks, but you’ll appreciate it later…
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
For really big guys (250 -275+) and over 6’2" I can see the arguement for soemthing bigger then a 250… but really… for anyone else unless you grew up riding dirt bikes the 250 used is the way to go…
You can get the newer Ninja 250r which looks bad ass IMHO used, drive it for a year or two and sell it for within 300 of what you bought it for… I bought new (opps) but had enough experiance I wasnt worried about dropping it (havent yet knock on wood) and am glad I did… Because of the lower power I didnt loose control the first time I hit a pothole like my friend who bought a 600 did… I also learned to drag a knee faster then he did because the bike is lighter and easier to flick around… It also made me realize Id rather have a cruiser and I am glad I wont have to take the hit trying to sell a 600 (they loose value a lot faster then the 250)…
Echoing everyone else… get gear (a helmet, glooves, boots (military are cheap and work well), and a good jacket)… figure on 500 for the above…
insurance depending where you live and what company is crazy…
In Missouri my 250 was 400 a year with a 100 deductable… In alabama 2 years later its 700 a year with a 500 deductable…
oh, and whatever you get, by frame sliders … they might not add to the looks, but you’ll appreciate it later…[/quote]
I don’t really have anything against 250’s…but I do think that on a BODYBUILDING FORUM where some of these guys are well over 220lbs that it needs to be high lighted. Also, if you live in a big city like Houston with freeways everywhere, you need something that can get up fast and get you out of trouble.
I agree about the frame sliders. I don’t have any on mine yet because they said they would have to drill through the side of the frame as the Honda wasn’t made with the site readily available.
I started on a 600 and it scared the shit out of me initially…because that bike could hit 60mph in less time than it takes for me to shift into 2nd gear in a car. However, I learned quickly and the speed of that bike helped keep me from getting sided by some clueless driver several times.
I am not sure a 250 is going to be able to speed up quickly while carrying 250+ extra pounds of weight.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Topic done many times.
Maybe we need a motorcycle subforum?
Start small…but for guys like myself, Bodyguard and Holymac, starting on a 250 is just not going to cut it. My 600 was a great bike, but I got comments about how small I made the bike look almost daily.[/quote]
I want a busa so damn bad…but if I get something, I might just go with a HD knightrider. I like the look of that bike. Powerful but I don’t think I’d go nuts on it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
Take the MSF class. Get a Ninja 250 or a 500. Learn how to drag pegs with it and get yourself into and out of bad spots. Sell it in a year for as much as you bought it for. Then buy race rep of your choice. It’s a lot less glamorous than hopping onto a CBR-RR or GSX-R, but it’s a lot safer.
A 600cc race rep is a serious machine. Most will outrun and out brake all but the fastest cars. Youcould give a 16 year old kid the keys to a Ferrari Enzo, but they won’t be able to do much with it. They haven’t developed the skills to handle one properly near the limits. Similarly, you might be able to ride a 600 or liter bike, but when something bad happens, will you be able to handle it safely? The guy above me says you don’t buy a car to crash it, so why buy a bike to drop it? Well, riding a bike is a lot harder than driving a car. Everything happens a lot faster and you don’t get the stability of 4 wheels. A race rep is on the fine line of performance and can be unforgiving.
It’s not even just the engine, it’s the suspension geometry and the brakes. A more forgiving and cheaper bike means you can push your limits more gradually without the bike biting you in the ass. And if you have a bad crash,it’s also not going to hurt your wallet as much.
In a car, you make a mistake, you lock up the wheels, it skids a bit, you shake up your nerves and life goes on. In a bike, you lock up the wheels, you stop turning, the bike might get traction and throw you off, it might slide under. A lot of things you can get away with in a car, can be damaging, costly or even fatal on a bike.
I know because I traded my Ninja 500 for a gorgeous Ducati with some giant Brembos up front after 2 months of riding. I’m going around a turn, a van runs a stop, I grab a little too much brake, the front tire locks up, bike wobbles, bites in and throws me over the front. Bike slides 30 feet. That’s scraped knees and bruised wrists for me and about 2 grand in damage to the bike.
Can you start out on a 600 or bigger? Yes. Will you learn more safely if you start smaller, slower and less sporty? Probably. If you buy a used 250 or 500, you can abuse it and resell it without losing any value. You might not look cool riding around on a doofy bike for a few months. But if that keeps you from highsiding your bike if a car cuts you off, then I think it’s a pretty worthy sacrifice.[/quote]
I’ve researched the issue for over a year now. And the above echoes all the reasonable advise I have ever read. Everyone wants to go out and buy what they want, but there is an indisputable wisdom to starting small, learning and progressing. It’s just unassailable advice - not what we want to hear (I wanted a hyabusa), but sound advice.
[/quote]
Just a heads up, you should avoid the 250 and take a riding course so you can learn to handle a 600. Someone your size will outgrow that 250 in a matter of weeks…if it can hold your big ass up.[/quote]
LOL it’s why I haven’t done anything yet. I’d LOVE to have a bike. LOVE. I’m just really divided on the issue. Spring is around the corner here. I just don’t feel like being a bear on the tricycle ( we actually had this talk YEARS ago X - that’s how long this has been on my mind lol). I satisfied my action lust a little bit after that initial discussion when I bought my first ATV - which I ride like I stole lol. I’m still on the fence about a bike though.
I think both sides have an amazing point here, but I think we can agree that the OP should buy a BEGINNER bike. Even a beginner bike can mess you up pretty badly, it is just more forgiving. Any R1, R6, or RR type bike is probably out of your riding capabilities for a while anyway.
I am not sure what you are looking for (twin, inline, ?), but I would recommend searching Google for “beginner bike.” You will see a lot of recommendations for CBR-F4i (Honda’s hard to work on?), SV650, Bandits, Blasts, etc.
If you buy soon enough, you can probably get a good, reliable bike for relatively cheap as it is still in the colder months. Search Craigslist especially! In regards to mileage, just look for a bike that seems to have been maintained, and take a friend who is knowledgeable about bikes to look over trouble areas. You can find some bikes with 70K miles still running strong or a bike with 5k miles with a blown motor.
Either way, again, all I say is buy the gear and take the MSF.
I’ve ridden a little over 200k miles… Last 90k were on 2001 Concours - ZG1000 (definitely an acquired taste)… Mostly commuting, some long distance.
I rode the new Ninja 250 at Bike week 2008… I was about 240 at the time.
If you kept it over 11k it was impressively responsive… The 250 would out accelerate almost any car in the “right” RPM range. Under 7k and it was damn flat, in traffic dangerously so. Sounded tortured, and sure it would attract cops even when ridden sanely. If I owned one it would live over 9k. Would not suggest to anyone unless they were an accomplished rider and could really work the transmission. But it is a bike to be respected for what it is. Anyone who is happy with one is likely a damn good rider.
Acceleration will get you out of trouble and is as important as breaking…
Loved the feel of the bike in corners, it was ever so light…
Rode the Ninja 500 next… Loved it. Would make a great commuter, short range tourer… Rather practical orientation. NOT a sport bike, marketing and graphics aside… Again have to keep RPMs up, but much larger practical range and wouldn’t attract the police in those ranges.
Didn’t get a chance to ride the 650nr… Friend rode it, appreciated it (he was used to Vulcan 1600)…
My boy is angling for a bike. I would guide him towards the suzuki 650 sv based bikes, gsxr-500, Ninja 500, KLR650, 650nr based bikes, maybe a Katana…
I would not allow the ninja 250, until he was experienced… Then again, I wouldn’t allow any real sport bike, like CBR, f6, etc. until he was much more mature.
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Topic done many times.
Maybe we need a motorcycle subforum?
Start small…but for guys like myself, Bodyguard and Holymac, starting on a 250 is just not going to cut it. My 600 was a great bike, but I got comments about how small I made the bike look almost daily.[/quote]
I want a busa so damn bad…but if I get something, I might just go with a HD knightrider. I like the look of that bike. Powerful but I don’t think I’d go nuts on it. [/quote]
The busa is way too much for street riding.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[
I am not sure a 250 is going to be able to speed up quickly while carrying 250+ extra pounds of weight. [/quote]
I agree with you which is why i said for someone that big go for a larger bike… but the first guy never posted his size…
At 225 and 5’8" the 250 was more then enough for me to learn on… It lacks top end but I have beaten every car I have raced off a red light to 85/90 with ease…
for a bigger guy I still wouldnt suggest a 600 sport bike… A 500 or 650 more naked style or endero would proly be a better start… It can certainly be done but its not what I would suggest since the OP sounds like he has little to no xp…
[quote]Null wrote:
My boy is angling for a bike. I would guide him towards the suzuki 650 sv based bikes, gsxr-500, Ninja 500, KLR650, 650nr based bikes, maybe a Katana…
I would not allow the ninja 250, until he was experienced… Then again, I wouldn’t allow any real sport bike, like CBR, f6, etc. until he was much more mature.
[/quote]
Agree with what you said but this to me deserved emphisis, I dont think I could come up with a better list of starting bikes for a bigger guy…
I was going to sell my 250 but decided to turn it into a track bike since that category is much more contested each weekend what compared with the 600 and liter class…
For bigger guys, I’d say the same general logic applies. Race rep bikes have peaky engines, and unforgiving brakes, steering and seating. If you’re dead set on riding a crotch rocket, I’d still try to ride a standard first.
If you’re 250 pounds, there’s still a ton of good bikes.
Kawasaki Ninja 500
Kawasaki Ninja 650
Kawasaki ER-6/Versys
Suzuki SV650
Ducati Monster/Multistrada
Buell XB9S (not R)
Those bikes should all be plenty fast enough for a big guy but with linear power and comfortable suspension/riding position.
Obviously you don’t get the thrill of 15 million rpm or feeling like you’re sitting on a razor, but in day to day life I’d probably still pick one of these over a race rep.
Since the OP has riding experience, you should sort of know how it feels, and what you like…
That being the case, get the fastest thing you want, so you’re not blowing money later trading up.
Inline 4s in the 600-800cc range are great, but most of them run really high RPMS, do you mind having a power-band that only comes on way up there? They’ll go faster than you’ll likely get the chance to on the streets, but are pretty flat at the lower RPMS, so lots of clutch work down low, and there power is more like an on/off than a gradual increase. If you fancy yourself a street-light to street-light racer, MOST people can’t launch worth shit, especially on the smaller displacement bikes, where you’re either going to take-off slow, burnout, or wheelie… Even many of the 1000cc bikes are like this. They are made for high speed, and acceleration at high speed, not getting out of the hole quickly.
I think the 1200cc+ inline are actually a lot easier to ride, because they actually generate torque, and therefor power through the mid-range, so it’s much easier to push it, while still keeping the front-end down, and the rear wheel engaged.
I personally like V-Twins/L-Twins the best, because my back-ground is drag-racing (street and strip), and they tend to have better power-delivery across the power-band for their given displacement, but lack at the top-end (like after 2nd gear you really start to feel it).
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I have a Q. Can a big liter HD be an okay first bike? Or is that still too powerful, etc.[/quote]
Most HDs come from the factory woefully under-powered, and they’re heavy bikes. The big-displacement HDs can easily have their output more than doubled (at the expense of engine life) from how they come from the factory.
A new big twin, you are talking like 56hp on an 8-900 pound bike with rider.
I wouldn’t worry about power… but dropping it sucks: parts are expensive, and if it’s your first bike, you’ll probably drop it at some point.
I have an 07 GSXR 600 and I love it. Had it for over two years now and it still has the chance every now and then to scare the crap out of me! Take the MSF course, and I’d suggest picking up a used bike. There are smoking deals on craigslist often, usually from someone who bought a bike only to realize it’s either too fast, or they dropped it in the driveway and got scared.
Looking forward to seeing pics of the new ride, whatever you decide on.
^^^ I have the same exact bike. Bought it brand knew and I absolutly am inlove with it. They aren’t going to have 750’s around to much longer I heard. But who knows, either way I’m so glad I bought this bike when I did. When I bought this I was debating on buying that years or waiting till an 08…I’ve taken a ride on an 08 750…I dunno what it is but I just don’t like it. This year I’m trying to get on the track. Shit just gets to damn crazy around my neck of the woods…to many fucking idiots in cars, yanno?
once again LOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEE my fucking motorcycle.
dude you gotta get some sliders…they’re worth their weight in gold