Ah, I see. I’m getting caught in the crossfire here! 
No sweat, I get pissed off from time to time at “the right” when in reality it is someone in particular I should be aiming for instead.
I’d say there is bias in all sorts of directions in the media. Both left and right depending upon where you turn and of course your own biases. Some biases are more subtle or sinister than others of course.
It’s funny, everyone thinks their own viewpoint is the one and only that is somehow unbiased… 
[quote]Vegita wrote:
RSU - I was on topic, you made a comment like, better get back to watching your fox news. [/quote]
The comment was “change the channel from time to time.”
[quote]
Implying that I only watch fox[/quote]
True, and maybe unfair
False. You didn’t have to read that far into it, man!
Okay, forget about it. Sorry if it struck such a nerve – it was a simple jab and I didn’t think it was anything to dwell on. Why don’t you get back to the matter, as I suggested last post, and check out those links that might clarify why FOX is bias.
Okay, this one! You’ve only responded about my comment when the issue at hand – which YOU raised – is about FOX’s bias.
RSU wrote
"My response will surely be inadequate, but what the hell!
The first problem might be that you can’t see it on your own! FOX’s bias jumps from the TV with it’s mic louder than everyone else’s, tells everyone to shut the fuck up, and proceeds to bludgeon its viewers with conservative propaganda."
I don’t normally chime in on political debates- mostly because I don’t like Bush or Kerry- but this comment caught my eye and I had to make one statement. Is Fox news biased? Probably. But they are an understandable backlash to the extremely one sided reporting coming from major news sources (like the NYT) for the past 25 years. The NY Times can and does set the agenda for what and how other newspapers around the country cover as well- such as the LA Times and the Chicago Tribune- to name just a few. And this is a problem. The news media should, in theory, be an enemy of political demagoguery- not a vehicle for it. So- yes Fox News probably does present news with a right winged view- but does it even begin to counterbalance the number of news organizations that present news with a left leaning agenda?
Do yourself a favor- pick up a book called ‘Coloring The News’ by Bill McGowan. You will never read the newspaper (any newspaper) the same way again. McGowan explains in the book how the crusade to improve diversity in the newsroom has actually lead most mainstream media outlets to project a much more narrow view of today’s major political issues.
Thanks for the recommendation, Irishrock. If I can fit it in, I’ll be sure to check it out.
My take on this is that the NYTimes might have an idealistic outlook that leans further left on issues. Is the reason for their lean political? I don’t know, but would guess not.
FOX, however, run by ultra-conservative Murdoch does things a bit dirtier – and with more lights and action, thereby attracting more viewers. I think FOX is a different animal with nothing on the left to compare it to.
I hear that CNN balances FOX, but I disagree. Compare a show like Crossfire with Hannity and Colmbs. I think they are very different.
That said, O’Reilly bothers me less and less these days…I still don’t like him, but he’s not nearly as bad as Hannity, who’s about the biggest hack I’ve ever witnessed.
RSU,
Yes, Hannity is a hack. Most of the talking heads are.
There used to be two kinds of journalism: news reporting and editorializing. Now there is a third, since we have all this space on cbale television - analyzing. While it purports to be closer to news reporting, let’s face it - it’s going to be heavily opinionated.
And that is fine. If it’s editoralizing and analyzing, there’s going to be a slant. Good channels balance their contributors’s viewpoints - and Fox certainly does a decent job of that.
But bias, on that kind of programming, is normal. Change the channel if you don’t like it.
But bias in reporting - like the kind of crap you get with the AP and Reuters, and possibly CBS - is unacceptable.
RSU:
Seems vegita did not appreciate your nasty sarcasm. It’s all in a days work for you right kid?
The sarcasm wasn’t the real big deal, it’s that he used it to belittle me when he doesn’t have a leg to stand on with his argument that fox is somehow ruining or corrupting the american population with their propoganda. Listen RSU, anyone who watches fox religiously, was already conservative. Guess what FOX did not create the republican party.
The fact is there is about 100+ news media outlets where I can pick up a liberal slant, there is one conservitave one on tv and all liberals want it gone. Period. Hows that for fair and balanced.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
Vegita:
“He used it (sarcasm) to belittle me.”
Yes, that’s what he (and other kids) do best.
Personally, I would like to see RSU write ten, or so, posts in a row without attacking anyone personally. I would accept this in lieu of my challenge.
Problem is he can’t do one, and is afraid of the other…oh my.
[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
My take on this is that the NYTimes might have an idealistic outlook that leans further left on issues. Is the reason for their lean political? I don’t know, but would guess not.
You might be splitting hairs on that one. They lean left- whether it’s for the purposes of getting Democrats elected (i.e. political) or not might not even matter- Salzburger used to admit as much.
As for Fox- it is very unpopular amongst the mainstream media outlets (as you will ironically hear frequent complaints of bias- even the NYT has the unmitigated gall to refer to Fox as propaganda) because places like the NYT used to have a hegemonic influence on what was reported and how it was covered. With the advent of internet blogs and sources like Fox news- that is no longer the case. I can’t help but think that some of the ‘old guard’ outlets are upset that they are losing their influence on the country’s political agenda.
It is going to be interesting to see how the news media changes over the next 5-10 years. The internet and cable tv are obviously having an enormous impact on the way in which news is covered in this country
[quote]Vegita wrote:
The sarcasm wasn’t the real big deal, it’s that he used it to belittle me[/quote]
Okay, let’s just chill out man – I wouldn’t call my sly remark belittlement – why must I always be proper and eloquent?
I never said anything about corrupting the population. I just think FOX is the most blatant source of biased news around, and perhaps the most impactful because they reach so many ears (no matter which party those ears belong to).
I agree with both points.
Wow,
vegita and Zeb what a team… kinda like Starsky and Hutch or maybe Andy and Barney or better yet Ren and Stimpy!
veg, you can teach ol Zeby how to do bong hits simultaneously while doing pull ups and Zeb you can hear the mushroom induced rants of one of the twenty year olds you love to hang with so much!
RSU,
Did you kick sand in their faces and make them cry again?
I mean, come on already, just because RSU is picking on your almight hero, and the means by which his gospel is spread, relax already.
Having someone tell you to “change the channel” is pretty freaking mild compared to what usually transpires down here in the politics pit.
Howabout we stop picking on RSU for his age, because it is certainly not something he can change no matter how much you chastise him for it.
Also, how about we respect his choice not to participate in a bet, whether you agree with his decision or not. It’s his choice, he has made it. Respect the man’s ability to conduct himself how he chooses too.
For fuck sakes, can we get back to crapping on each others political beliefs already?
vroom:
I think there many on the forum who have crapped on your political beliefs, so please stop complaining!
Elk?.. I’ll save my brain power, at least RSU and Vroom attept to debate poloitics.
I respect both RSU and Vroom, They have opinions on the other side of the spectrum as I do but at least they attempt to enter discourse and debate and (I think) attempt to be honest and seek the truth.
That being said, RSU i’m sorry if you felt I went off on you but ya gotta stand up for what you believe in, you know this. As I said before I will defend what I think is right tooth and nail until I either find another more believable truth or someone shows me one. I think fox is the least Biased news orginazation on TV. You think it is the most biased. Since Biase is a potentially undefineable or unmeasureable idea. Lets just agree to disagree on this one. Certainly there are larger hills we can fight over.
Vroom, I don’t think I ever knocked on RSU for his age so I hope that wasn’t directed at me, even though my neame was included. I am the same age as he is and do not view it as a hadicap. I view his liberal leanings as somewhat of a handicap as I view yours. Basically from my interactions with most liberals, it’s like the old cliche of the pot calling the kettle black. You claim that conservatives are this that and the other thing, when all I can see is that a good percentage of liberals are exactly what you claim conservative to be.
One major thing that jumps to mind… Liberals and dems, claim to care about the little people. They claim to want to help the poor lift themselves out of poverty and help the less fortunate. They claim that conservatives and the gop don’t care at all for the less fortunate and would exploit them just to make a buck on thier backs. Is that pretty accurate?
Ok then tell me why Republicans and Conservatives give more and have given more to charities and those less fortunate for a long time. And it’s not by some nominal amount either, it’s considerable. So if liberals care so much why don’t they put thier money where their mouth is and pony up some cash for people who really need it. And don’t tell me there is more conservative people with extra money than liberals. Lest we forget almost all of california, New York and almost all college professors. I can find the study for you if you need me too.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
[quote]Vegita wrote:
I think fox is the least Biased news orginazation on TV. You think it is the most biased. Since Biase is a potentially undefineable or unmeasureable idea. Lets just agree to disagree on this one. Certainly there are larger hills we can fight over.[/quote]
We can drop the FOX debate if you like. However, I’d like to point out that I think bias IS measurable in some sense, though for the most part I think you’re right – claims of bias are often just our general feelings about a news source.
For a measurable argument that FOX is bias, see the links I provided above.
[quote]
Vroom, I don’t think I ever knocked on RSU for his age
[/quote] except for this strange little offering:
"[quote]Correct me if I’m wrong but are you not a 24 year old University of Miami FL student…?
This would qualify you as an inexperienced kid.[/quote]"
I think it was a strange take because you offer no reason other than my age to in fact qualify me by the terms you used. You call me a kid because I’m 24 years of age – by that rationale, every 24 year old is inexperienced, including yourself…so what was your point? I hope you weren’t just falling in line with ZEB’s baseless attempts at discrediting me.
[quote]
I am the same age as he is and do not view it as a hadicap. [/quote]
This seems to contradict what you said in the Assault Weapons UnBan thread, which I just quoted.
RSU:
There was in fact a “base” for “discrediting” you. If you want to be reminded of it I will be glad to do so:
Acting in an immature fashion.
Peronally attacking others (“What does the R stand for Jeff retard or reject?”
Never giving anyone credit for knowing something that you don’t.
Never giving your opponent credit whatsoever!
The above actions usually indicate those of a child. In your case a 24 year old child. Does that mean that all 24 year olds act like children? Of course not. It simply means that many (not all) of your previous posts were of this nature.
Adding one further charge of immaturity. Most kids never know when to shut up!
RSU - again you leave out pertinent info…
"Correct me if I’m wrong but are you not a 24 year old University of Miami FL student (25 in november right?)
This would qualify you as an inexperienced kid. I am in the same boat as you are except I’m already done with school."
As My post here clearly implies I view both of us as inexperienced kids with a lot to learn. way to leave out that last sentance.
Anyways
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
Zeb-
I am going to chime in here one last time on a serious note and then I will leave it be. I personally have not liked your insidious attacks on RSU. You seem to hold him to a standard far above anyone else on this forum.
We have all in the past eight months I have read this forum made some pretty insulting comments to one another. Of the two people that always stick to hammering their message out (one of which I disagree with vehemently) are Boston Barrister and Lumpy.
I hold RSU to be right behind them sure he has made a few nasty comments, but most of the time he was responding to nasty comments made to him. He for the most part brought up intelligent points and been willing to debate them with people and has on many occasions asked you to stick to the topic.
Instead you make childish challenges and attempt to smear him as an immature “kid”. I think this speaks volumes about your maturity and manhood that you would need to try and bait someone into bullshit like that! Just because I lift weights I am not going to use that in an argument that has nothing to do with that (your comments about what he must be like in the gym) or try to get someone to not post on the forum for three months. Are you that threatened by him? I know you will say no and have some rationalization for it.
Anyway, why don’t you cut the shit with RSU and your challenge and if you’re ever out Colorado way give me a ring and we can go to the gym and see what’s what… I know you will kick my ass on pull ups though!
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Zeb-
I am going to chime in here one last time on a serious note and then I will leave it be. I personally have not liked your insidious attacks on RSU. You seem to hold him to a standard far above anyone else on this forum.
We have all in the past eight months I have read this forum made some pretty insulting comments to one another. Of the two people that always stick to hammering their message out (one of which I disagree with vehemently) are Boston Barrister and Lumpy.
I hold RSU to be right behind them sure he has made a few nasty comments, but most of the time he was responding to nasty comments made to him. He for the most part brought up intelligent points and been willing to debate them with people and has on many occasions asked you to stick to the topic.
Instead you make childish challenges and attempt to smear him as an immature “kid”. I think this speaks volumes about your maturity and manhood that you would need to try and bait someone into bullshit like that! Just because I lift weights I am not going to use that in an argument that has nothing to do with that (your comments about what he must be like in the gym) or try to get someone to not post on the forum for three months. Are you that threatened by him? I know you will say no and have some rationalization for it.
Anyway, why don’t you cut the shit with RSU and your challenge and if you’re ever out Colorado way give me a ring and we can go to the gym and see what’s what… I know you will kick my ass on pull ups though!
[/quote]
Elk:
You need to reread my posts. I never made fun of RSU’s Gym abilities. I simply used an analogy: The Gym rat who brags and then does not back it up.
I thought the challenge would be fun, he didn’t. We debated over it for a week or so, I enjoyed it, he didn’t (or didn’t seem to). You obviosuly didn’t either.
When someone acts like a kid, I will call them a kid. Age in this case was actually not as important as actions. Vegita is also 24 and I never would have guessed that because of his thoughtful posts and his desire to keep the debate on the issues and not attack people personally.
I find both Lumpy and especially BB’s posts excellent reads. I see no problem with them or anyone else for that matter. If you want to side with RSU, I have no problem with that. You are both fairly close in political ideology so I understand. No problem here and no personal attacks either!
You are correct on one thing however, I would kick your butt in Pull-ups! Just kidding, you can probably do 50 dead hangs for all I know. I don’t assume anything.
Take care.
Zeb
Far be it for me to refute Brother Elk, but…
Lighten up.
Bets are placed to infuse some emotion into an event.
Why not have a friendly wager?
When RSU’s candidate was “doing well” he was having a ball. He was pointing out polls that were favorable to Kerry.
Now that we have analyzed Kerry and rejected him, he’s not so confident.
If he thought about it for a second, he’d realize that a three month absence would probably be therapeutic. It’s possible that he could analyze his beloved Democrats in a new light. He could let his anger cool and put the fact that the entire Federal Government is in Republican hands some thought. Again the three months off might do him some good.
Remember, there are people who still haven’t gotten over Gore losing four years ago.
Above all, it’s been pretty amusing.
JeffR