[quote]Professor X wrote:
Yeah, but why ignore that whole “Shias & Sunnies” issue over there? They have fighting and hatred in that part of the world that goes back to Abraham. Getting rid of Saddam isn’t going to erase all of that. In America, we were all pretty much on the same page for the most part. While there were several negatives from women’s rights to slavery, what erased all of that in the end was a fight for freedom. This is not a culture that even mirrors what we began with. They are putting some things into their own constitution that restrict some aspects of their culture even more than when Saddam was in charge. If that doesn’t speak very loudly to those of you who seem to only be able to think in term of “American Eyes”, I don’t know what will.
[/quote]
George Washington agreed to be president to stop a communist revolution. Many of his former troops thought that since they did the fighting, all should be distributed equally. This is just one example of how the USA was a chaotic shit-pit when we were founded. There was conflict, rampant inflation, depression – hell, congress had to run for their lives when they met! Then, they had to accept slavery in the South as a compromise. Our founding was like a drunken rampage! Does all this sound like it could be updated to today?
If the Iraqis stick to principles, use the US Constitution as a model, I have a lot of hope for that region. Maybe my kids will vacation there someday!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If the Iraqis stick to principles, use the US Constitution as a model, I have a lot of hope for that region. Maybe my kids will vacation there someday![/quote]
Does anyone on this site read the news?
Article 2 or the Iraqi constitution draft reads:
Islam is the official religion of state and a fundamental source for legislation.
(a) No law may contravene the essential verities of Islamic law.
(b) No law may contravene the principles of democracy.
(c) No law may contravene the rights and basic liberties enumerated in this constitution.
Having an official state religion is the opposite from the US’s principle of separation of church and state. The church will be the state and vice versa in Iraq. If you’re looking for who they’re modeling, Iran is a closer fit.
Point (a) (b) and (c) are contradictory. If you follow (b) and (c), then you’ll probably contravene (a), especially if you’re a woman. My guess is that in practice, (b) and (c) will bite the dust whenever (a) says otherwise.
Maybe you kids will visit someday, but advise your daughters not to marry there.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If the Iraqis stick to principles, use the US Constitution as a model, I have a lot of hope for that region. Maybe my kids will vacation there someday!
Does anyone on this site read the news?
Article 2 or the Iraqi constitution draft reads:
Islam is the official religion of state and a fundamental source for legislation.
(a) No law may contravene the essential verities of Islamic law.
(b) No law may contravene the principles of democracy.
(c) No law may contravene the rights and basic liberties enumerated in this constitution.
Having an official state religion is the opposite from the US’s principle of separation of church and state. The church will be the state and vice versa in Iraq. If you’re looking for who they’re modeling, Iran is a closer fit.
Point (a) (b) and (c) are contradictory. If you follow (b) and (c), then you’ll probably contravene (a), especially if you’re a woman. My guess is that in practice, (b) and (c) will bite the dust whenever (a) says otherwise.
Maybe you kids will visit someday, but advise your daughters not to marry there.[/quote]
But unless I’ve been asleep for several days (and I certainly not discounting that possibility), The Iraqi Constitution has not been adopted yet. In fact, aren’t there several sticking points that need to be ironed out before it is put before the Iraqi people for adoption?
Like I said - I could have been asleep for several days, so I could be wrong.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
But unless I’ve been asleep for several days (and I certainly not discounting that possibility), The Iraqi Constitution has not been adopted yet. In fact, aren’t there several sticking points that need to be ironed out before it is put before the Iraqi people for adoption?
Like I said - I could have been asleep for several days, so I could be wrong.[/quote]
What seems to be developing is that the Shiites and Kurds will adopt the constitution even with the Sunni’s voting against it. If that happens, it seems that the constitution could later be “overthrown” at the next elections if the Sunnis vote with enough numbers.
The situation is a bit murky at this time. Deadlines keep being set and broken. As far as I can tell, it’s not going too well. And even if they finally get to agree, it’s nearly certain that Islamic law will be a big part, if not in theory, then in practice, of the new Iraqi constitutions. You’ll have clerics involved at pretty much every significant level of legislative power.
So I wasn’t asleep - everytime I open my mouth like that, I get a little nervous.
ANyhow - people that are making fun, or discounting the process that the Iraqis are going through right now are evidently ignoring the tumultuous, and combative process that finally gave birth to the U.S. Constitution.
I wonder if, had there been non-stop live news coverage back then, the U.S. would have been the butt of the same razzinfg that the Iraqis are currently.
It wasn’t a cake walk for the founding fathers. I think the same respect and patience should be afforded to the Iraqis as well.