It may be offensive then Al, but not offensive based on racial things. Sorry.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
There are many jobs that Americans don’t seem to be running for. Nearly every jobless person could grab a used lawnmower and start working…but how many do so?[/quote]
True. I live in Santa Monica which is flooded with bums… er, homeless, and not one of them has ever asked to cut my lawn. Though they never tire of asking me for my money so they can get loaded.
[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Nope, wrong again. I am pro-immigration like a lot of the other posters.
…
But if you can’t read my simple points then you have a problem.
…
Its a classic liberal use of rhetoric
[/quote]
You need to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills, not to mention your ability to reason logically. Let me help you out here.
-
I made no reference to whether you were pro or anti immigration. I took a silly statement you made, took it to its logical conclusion, and put that to you.
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When I said that I didn’t understand what the heck you were trying to say, I meant just that. It wasn’t a roundabout way of my saying that you are wrong (thats a whole other discussion, and I just can’t be bothered). You just did not make any sense.
I don’t respond to gibberish.
- It seems that you are labeling me as a “liberal”. Exactly how did you come to this brilliant deduction based upon my involvement in this thread? ESP?
You don’t know me from Adam. You have no clue whether I am a libertarian, deep conservative, or something in between.
You don’t even know if I’m American (I’m not) - in which case your childishly simplistic “you’re either conservative or liberal” just has no relevance.
Aren’t you lucky I’m not even going to charge you for this free lesson?
[quote]I am pro immigration, LEGALLY and with intention to be a PRODUCTIVE part of society! I’m talking Mexico here.
What you say above is absolutely plain old WRONG.
If you live in California, AZ and Texas you know how badly illegal immigration effects the economy.
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Health care costs and dealing with illegals are triple of what it will cost to build a secure wall and patrol. Many come over to have their children so it can be American and have citizenship rights, and the kids get delivered with YOUR TAX DOLLARS.
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These jobs they take are usually under the table, and the gov receives no taxes from it, and most of the money goes straight back to mexico anyway. How is this stimulating economy here in the US?
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Most fail to secure health coverage and when they get legal end up on welfare anyway. California has 12 percent of the US population but shells out 21% of the nations welfare. This is an example of why you are wrong. The US employers who use these guys should face STIFF penaties.
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They refuse to learn our language so we have to spend billions on spanish signage, ATM’s, DMV, printing, and the list goes on.
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Do you think these people have insurance for the cars they might hit you with? Hell no. Your insurance would have to pay for it. The amount of illegals driving is a problem because they fail to PAY THE PROPER TAXES and reg. fees!
[/quote]
Wow. This again.
Ok, let’s see…
#1 It’s affects, not effects. Effects are what happens due to an event. Sad is the day when a teenage Mexican is given a grwon U.S. citizen english lessons.
#2 Got any stats to back your statements up? Or are you going off what Fox News tell you? The reality is that most illegal immigrants are too damn scared of getting deported to go to clinics or hospitals, unless it’s an emergency. Secondly, how many illegal immigrants actually come here, have their kid, and go back? It’s kinda hard to make a 100+ mile trip across the desert in good health, much less 9 months pregnant.
#3 Even the damn CIS concluded that almost all illegal immigrants pay taxes, so yes, the money is going to the U.S. government. Again, you throw out statements like this with no proof. You want to know how it stimulates the economy? Go rent “A day without a Mexican”. Oh wait, that’s just liberal bullshit… right?
#4 How many actually “get legal”? The resources needed are way beyond most immigrants, to say nothing of the 5-year+ wait period. How the hell do they apply in the first place if they’re here illegally? I don’t think Jose can just show up at a government building and say “Que pedo guey, I want to become a ‘citisin’.”
#5 Really? They just sit in school and speak in spanish, never ever even trying to learn english? As for the adults, they just go “Nope, not gonna talk in english… ever!!!”? That’s one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard. Forget my personal experience with illegals, I’ll bet you anything that nearly all immigrants at least TRY to learn english.
#6 How many illegals actually get into car accidents? You guys have to freaking realize that they’re so grateful for the opportunity to pick your damn fruit for twelve hours a day for less than minimum wage that they’ll do anything to stay. Illegal drivers are the best drivers that I know of, because they all know that one accident means a one-way ticket back to Aztlan for them.
#7 Guess what? My mother crossed the border, had me, and went home. Your tax dollars payed for me… life’s a bitch, huh? Whatcha gonna do about that?
(By the way, she had been in San Diego for 3 years already doing her post-graduate degree, and later her doctorate at UCSD. She moved back to Mexico six months after I was born, not immediately after… and she was in San Diego on a student visa.)
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
Wow. This again.
Ok, let’s see…
#1 It’s affects, not effects. Effects are what happens due to an event. Sad is the day when a teenage Mexican is given a grwon U.S. citizen english lessons.
#2 Got any stats to back your statements up? Or are you going off what Fox News tell you? The reality is that most illegal immigrants are too damn scared of getting deported to go to clinics or hospitals, unless it’s an emergency.
Secondly, how many illegal immigrants actually come here, have their kid, and go back? It’s kinda hard to make a 100+ mile trip across the desert in good health, much less 9 months pregnant.
#3 Even the damn CIS concluded that almost all illegal immigrants pay taxes, so yes, the money is going to the U.S. government. Again, you throw out statements like this with no proof. You want to know how it stimulates the economy? Go rent “A day without a Mexican”. Oh wait, that’s just liberal bullshit… right?
#4 How many actually “get legal”? The resources needed are way beyond most immigrants, to say nothing of the 5-year+ wait period. How the hell do they apply in the first place if they’re here illegally?
I don’t think Jose can just show up at a government building and say “Que pedo guey, I want to become a ‘citisin’.”
#5 Really? They just sit in school and speak in spanish, never ever even trying to learn english? As for the adults, they just go “Nope, not gonna talk in english… ever!!!”? That’s one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard.
Forget my personal experience with illegals, I’ll bet you anything that nearly all immigrants at least TRY to learn english.
#6 How many illegals actually get into car accidents? You guys have to freaking realize that they’re so grateful for the opportunity to pick your damn fruit for twelve hours a day for less than minimum wage that they’ll do anything to stay. Illegal drivers are the best drivers that I know of, because they all know that one accident means a one-way ticket back to Aztlan for them.
#7 Guess what? My mother crossed the border, had me, and went home. Your tax dollars payed for me… life’s a bitch, huh? Whatcha gonna do about that?
(By the way, she had been in San Diego for 3 years already doing her post-graduate degree, and later her doctorate at UCSD. She moved back to Mexico six months after I was born, not immediately after… and she was in San Diego on a student visa.)[/quote]
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Thanks for your english lesson here, I’m sure you could not understand what I wrote the way I spelled it.
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I never said they come here, then go back, I said the wages they earn usually go back to Mexico to family there, who are not here or could not make the trip etc. I back this up with 2 people I know who work in the ladscaping business without a license.
Yes, this does not count as proof or even a good sampling, but through my discussions with them THEY tell me what they do, so my experience and data point that direction.
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How can you pay taxes as an illegal? Is there an illegal alien SS system out there for the IRS to track? OR do they just send 33% of what they earn to the IRS? NO. They do pay sales taxes in stores, so you are partially correct.
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I’m not sure how it all works, but don’t you have to get a visa, green card or something?
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You are off point. Schools spend tons of time teaching kids english from scratch and it AFFECTS (you like?) the overall performance of the schools. You tell me how we can teach 2nd grade english to a population 50% native which grew up speaking english and 50% are non-english speaking?
Don’t you think there is some kind of cost associated to that? I never said they would not try to learn I’m saying we spend money to accomodate the foreign language in so many facets of our Public Works and community, which costs money.
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This makes no sense at all. I have no fruit that needs picking.
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You prove my point here. Yet you question me above by asking me who would ever come here have a baby and leave back to Mexico?
Yes life IS a bitch, but I guess it’s more of a bitch for illegal aliens, so I should just sympathize and accomodate them with a bleeding heart I guess.
BUT…I’m conservative, so F*cK that!
[quote]isr wrote:
You need to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills, not to mention your ability to reason logically. Let me help you out here.
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I made no reference to whether you were pro or anti immigration. I took a silly statement you made, took it to its logical conclusion, and put that to you.
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When I said that I didn’t understand what the heck you were trying to say, I meant just that. It wasn’t a roundabout way of my saying that you are wrong (thats a whole other discussion, and I just can’t be bothered). You just did not make any sense.
I don’t respond to gibberish.
- It seems that you are labeling me as a “liberal”. Exactly how did you come to this brilliant deduction based upon my involvement in this thread? ESP?
You don’t know me from Adam. You have no clue whether I am a libertarian, deep conservative, or something in between.
You don’t even know if I’m American (I’m not) - in which case your childishly simplistic “you’re either conservative or liberal” just has no relevance.
Aren’t you lucky I’m not even going to charge you for this free lesson?[/quote]
Yes, you are very wise. It would help if you quoted what i said and reply with something like " well this is silly " or " i cannot understand this" . But instead you are just giving blanket statements which doesn’t let me work with anything.
So instead of me assuming, do you consider yourself liberal or conservative? Something else perhaps if i am pre-judging you?
[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Ok X , check out what i said about how the Anglos have encouraged a number of cultures, religions, and people to come over. That is one reason X, that more people get a slice of the pie, i mean thats a good liberal philosophy eh?
[/quote]
I just wanted to point out, at risk of escalating the discussion, that this response was retarded. Anglos are now the reason that many other cultures are drawn to America? I love how easily it is forgotten how many Asians and Africans died in the actual construction of this culture. It is nice to see who gets the credit, however. All in all, it makes “minor” comments not so minor when seen altogether.
[quote]1. Thanks for your english lesson here, I’m sure you could not understand what I wrote the way I spelled it.
- I never said they come here, then go back, I said the wages they earn usually go back to Mexico to family there, who are not here or could not make the trip etc. I back this up with 2 people I know who work in the ladscaping business without a license.
Yes, this does not count as proof or even a good sampling, but through my discussions with them THEY tell me what they do, so my experience and data point that direction.
-
How can you pay taxes as an illegal? Is there an illegal alien SS system out there for the IRS to track? OR do they just send 33% of what they earn to the IRS? NO. They do pay sales taxes in stores, so you are partially correct.
-
I’m not sure how it all works, but don’t you have to get a visa, green card or something?
-
You are off point. Schools spend tons of time teaching kids english from scratch and it AFFECTS (you like?) the overall performance of the schools. You tell me how we can teach 2nd grade english to a population 50% native which grew up speaking english and 50% are non-english speaking?
Don’t you think there is some kind of cost associated to that? I never said they would not try to learn I’m saying we spend money to accomodate the foreign language in so many facets of our Public Works and community, which costs money.
-
This makes no sense at all. I have no fruit that needs picking.
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You prove my point here. Yet you question me above by asking me who would ever come here have a baby and leave back to Mexico?
Yes life IS a bitch, but I guess it’s more of a bitch for illegal aliens, so I should just sympathize and accomodate them with a bleeding heart I guess.
BUT…I’m conservative, so F*cK that! [/quote]
#1 Don’t try to justify your bad grammer. To many white kids in my school suck at english.
#2 In that case, I’ll mail you the findings that UC MexUS had (where I worked for 6 months). Or even better, how about the hundreds of illegals that I know? Let’s see, there’s my soccer team, my schoolmates, my neighbors, my friends, my dad’s friends, the people that we meet at my dad’s job… should I go on?
By your reasoning I could meet a black guy, have him mug me, and thus conclude that black people are violent criminals… enough said.
#3 From CIS itself : “…the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.”
#4 Exactly. My point being that you have to GO to a government building, which is a no-no in the “How to no get Deported” handbook. Furthermore, even if they went, what the hell would they do? They have no documentation of any kind.
#5 How about because the “specialized” classes that help you learn english are one class of 20 kids per SCHOOL. They create less of a drain than a freaking special-ed class! And you just said that they didn’t want to learn the language! You’re contradicting yourself!
#6 I’m not talking about you specifically, I’m talking about California (you are from here, right?).
#7 I was being sarcastic… or didn’t you read what I wrote after that? My mother had been studying at UCSD on a student visa for 3 years prior to having me… she was close to getting her doctorate. I was simply showing that I, for one, am not your stereotypical mexican.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
5. You are off point. Schools spend tons of time teaching kids english from scratch and it AFFECTS (you like?) the overall performance of the schools. You tell me how we can teach 2nd grade english to a population 50% native which grew up speaking english and 50% are non-english speaking?
[/quote]
Through the use of teachers skilled in teaching both. My mom is one of those teachers. It is called “ESL” or “English as a second language”. There are many elementary schools in Texas implementing this system. You would be suprised how fast these children learn.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
-
Thanks for your english lesson here, I’m sure you could not understand what I wrote the way I spelled it.
-
I never said they come here, then go back, I said the wages they earn usually go back to Mexico to family there, who are not here or could not make the trip etc. I back this up with 2 people I know who work in the ladscaping business without a license.
Yes, this does not count as proof or even a good sampling, but through my discussions with them THEY tell me what they do, so my experience and data point that direction.
-
How can you pay taxes as an illegal? Is there an illegal alien SS system out there for the IRS to track? OR do they just send 33% of what they earn to the IRS? NO. They do pay sales taxes in stores, so you are partially correct.
-
I’m not sure how it all works, but don’t you have to get a visa, green card or something?
-
You are off point. Schools spend tons of time teaching kids english from scratch and it AFFECTS (you like?) the overall performance of the schools. You tell me how we can teach 2nd grade english to a population 50% native which grew up speaking english and 50% are non-english speaking?
Don’t you think there is some kind of cost associated to that? I never said they would not try to learn I’m saying we spend money to accomodate the foreign language in so many facets of our Public Works and community, which costs money.
-
This makes no sense at all. I have no fruit that needs picking.
-
You prove my point here. Yet you question me above by asking me who would ever come here have a baby and leave back to Mexico?
Yes life IS a bitch, but I guess it’s more of a bitch for illegal aliens, so I should just sympathize and accomodate them with a bleeding heart I guess.
BUT…I’m conservative, so F*cK that!
#1 Don’t try to justify your bad grammer. To many white kids in my school suck at english.
#2 In that case, I’ll mail you the findings that UC MexUS had (where I worked for 6 months). Or even better, how about the hundreds of illegals that I know? Let’s see, there’s my soccer team, my schoolmates, my neighbors, my friends, my dad’s friends, the people that we meet at my dad’s job… should I go on?
By your reasoning I could meet a black guy, have him mug me, and thus conclude that black people are violent criminals… enough said.
#3 From CIS itself : “…the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.”
#4 Exactly. My point being that you have to GO to a government building, which is a no-no in the “How to no get Deported” handbook. Furthermore, even if they went, what the hell would they do? They have no documentation of any kind.
#5 How about because the “specialized” classes that help you learn english are one class of 20 kids per SCHOOL. They create less of a drain than a freaking special-ed class! And you just said that they didn’t want to learn the language! You’re contradicting yourself!
#6 I’m not talking about you specifically, I’m talking about California (you are from here, right?).
#7 I was being sarcastic… or didn’t you read what I wrote after that? My mother had been studying at UCSD on a student visa for 3 years prior to having me… she was close to getting her doctorate. I was simply showing that I, for one, am not your stereotypical mexican.[/quote]
I respect your views. Thanks for the retorts, you clearly have more experience than I do in this matter.
But I still do not agree this process stimulates the economy in a good way.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
5. You are off point. Schools spend tons of time teaching kids english from scratch and it AFFECTS (you like?) the overall performance of the schools. You tell me how we can teach 2nd grade english to a population 50% native which grew up speaking english and 50% are non-english speaking?
Through the use of teachers skilled in teaching both. My mom is one of those teachers. It is called “ESL” or “English as a second language”. There are many elementary schools in Texas implementing this system. You would be suprised how fast these children learn. [/quote]
Yes, they learn very fast as I have a 6 year old taking spanish after school. After 5 weeks she knows as much as I did after a semester in High School. It would make sense to have a bi-lingual teacher in the districts that need it.
Wow. You really caught me off guard there. Um, ok, now I feel like an asshole…
Yeah, anyways, the thing is that I’ve been surrounded by this my whole life; I’ve lived on both sides of the border, so I like to thing that I know enought about the subject.
I’m not for illegal immigration, by the way. I just don’t like it when people think that it’s the immigrants themselves that are trying to screw people over, when evidence clearly shows that the only true winner in all of this are big companies. You may argue that the immigrants ‘win’ because they’re better off, but that doesn’t excuse their exploitation at the hands of the bureocrats (sorry for getting all marxist here).
That’s why I tend to go off on people that try to use illegal immigration as an excuse for their racism agains latinamericans (not talking about you, btw).
Anyways, I agree that illegal immigration should stop, but building a huge wall across the border isn’t gonna do anything.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
…
#1 It’s affects, not effects. Effects are what happens due to an event. Sad is the day when a teenage Mexican is given a grwon U.S. citizen english lessons.
…[/quote]
If you are going to give English lessons try to spell all your words correctly or some wiseass will make fun of you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lumbernac wrote:
Ok X , check out what i said about how the Anglos have encouraged a number of cultures, religions, and people to come over. That is one reason X, that more people get a slice of the pie, i mean thats a good liberal philosophy eh?
I just wanted to point out, at risk of escalating the discussion, that this response was retarded. Anglos are now the reason that many other cultures are drawn to America? I love how easily it is forgotten how many Asians and Africans died in the actual construction of this culture. It is nice to see who gets the credit, however. All in all, it makes “minor” comments not so minor when seen altogether.[/quote]
I now understand (in the context of this thread)-where Al was coming from. I missed it and I apologize.
I tell ya:
white, 40+, rose colored glasses-----no way to go through life.
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lumbernac wrote:
Ok X , check out what i said about how the Anglos have encouraged a number of cultures, religions, and people to come over. That is one reason X, that more people get a slice of the pie, i mean thats a good liberal philosophy eh?
I just wanted to point out, at risk of escalating the discussion, that this response was retarded. Anglos are now the reason that many other cultures are drawn to America? I love how easily it is forgotten how many Asians and Africans died in the actual construction of this culture. It is nice to see who gets the credit, however. All in all, it makes “minor” comments not so minor when seen altogether.
I now understand (in the context of this thread)-where Al was coming from. I missed it and I apologize.
I tell ya:
white, 40+, rose colored glasses-----no way to go through life.[/quote]
Look X, that was a mistake of print. I meant that people are coming over more for our diversity, i mean , its america. I was typing way too fast, and in too much of a hurry to really pay attention to what i wrote. No, it would be a mistake to say that we have immigrants just b/c of one culture. Nay, they want to come here partly because they may see some familiar faces right? Are you still offended at my comments of offering a better place if you don’t feel that america is a moral place for you? Just realize that i never said that anybody should leave! I just pointed out that if you feel that this isn’t the right place for you morally, then there are better places hopefully.
You sure do get offended easily
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
…
#1 It’s affects, not effects. Effects are what happens due to an event. Sad is the day when a teenage Mexican is given a grwon U.S. citizen english lessons.
…
If you are going to give English lessons try to spell all your words correctly or some wiseass will make fun of you. [/quote]
You know the difference between a typo and misusing a word. Some wiseass wouldn’t. 
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
I just don’t like it when people think that it’s the immigrants themselves that are trying to screw people over, when evidence clearly shows that the only true winner in all of this are big companies.
[/quote]
Don’t feel like an asshole cuz I’m a dick anyway. It’s all good.
How is illegal immigration connected to Large Company Profits in your mind?
Is Wallmart evil because they exploit employees and keep them part time so no benefits need be shelled out? Or that they drive ma and pop shops out of business?
Or is it bad that some companies moved plants out to Mexico to employ cheaper labor and to operate in a place that has little to no environmental or labor standard laws? Do the Mexican citizens benefit from this or not?
Well… let me put it this way: they’re building a wal-mart at the Pyramids (in Tenochtitlan).
As to big business, “A day without a Mexican” explains it better than me, so I reccomend renting it. Just be sure to be open-minded (like I was when I bought Ann Coulter’s book).
I really doubt lesser-developed countries’ citizens benefit when a factory or plant is installed, for obvious reasons.
[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Look X, that was a mistake of print. I meant that people are coming over more for our diversity, i mean , its america. I was typing way too fast, and in too much of a hurry to really pay attention to what i wrote. [/quote]
Yes, Sigmund Freud had a name for this.
[quote]
No, it would be a mistake to say that we have immigrants just b/c of one culture. Nay, they want to come here partly because they may see some familiar faces right? Are you still offended at my comments of offering a better place if you don’t feel that america is a moral place for you? [/quote]
Offering a better place? First, what gives you the right to tell someone they need to leave if they don’t agree with you or the direction of this country? Why wouldn’t the logical concept be to help change what offends in THIS country?
[quote]
Just realize that i never said that anybody should leave! I just pointed out that if you feel that this isn’t the right place for you morally, then there are better places hopefully.
You sure do get offended easily[/quote]
I actually don’t get offended very easily at all. I noticed the first comment you made just like Al did. I simply knew where you would go as far as a response if called on it. Since he went ahead and called you on it, it is now open season. I also know that most of the people prone to such verbal racial slips of the tongue generally never believe they hold any racist or bigoted viewpoints. I also find it amazing how things like this slip under the radar of many Caucasians and they will actually come to defend the comment as if the black person (or other minority) who took offense is simply making a mountain out of mole hill. And people wonder why there is still tension? If you experience something, yet are told that you didn’t really experience it and it is all in your head, do you think it is forgotten?
X, granted i am very blunt and open with my comments but please take what i said was a mistake as simply that. I was about to go to class and i looked at what you cited and i actually disagree with what i wrote so that should give you some indication as that i wasn’t really thinking about what i typed, b/c i was in a hurry!
I am pro-multicultural , i like other cultures. If immigrants come over and see people of their own kind wouldn’t that encourage more to come? See, its just logic man, and that defeats any racist BS you or anybody else could throw.
You know what i was getting at. Yes, its quite a rude thing to say to suggest that other places might be a more suitable home if they don’t feel that they have a right to be there. But, its the internet and we can be blunt and to the point if we want to. I
meant to say that if you don’t feel you have the right to be here you could go anywhere not just africa. Why waste your life feeling guilty for just living
in a place that you don’t belong? Me, like i said nobody has any more of a right to a plot of land than anybody else so i don’t live with this kind of
dilemma. If you do, all i am saying is pointing out a choice that would eliminate the hypocrisy. Its blunt , rude but not racist by any means. Thats All. Thank you for reading.