Post your before and after stats.
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us man. Appreciate different perspectives.
Everything I have on hand is longer esters, and Dbol. I suppose I could give your proposed strategy a try and if by week 5 I’m not satisfied I could just drop the doses and go for longer.[/quote]
i belive that is the smartest way to find your own way to cycle. less reading, more experimenting - its like Rich Piana said on youtube - no one wants to use their brain and think for themselves… you have people reading on long cycles and PCT and following exact protocols cause some internet-warrior posted it and it became “THE truth”.
same with short ones - most people just read up and follow, and same is with steroids - we read on how to take them, when to take them, and what sides we will have, so most people just follow what others say on internet and end up having same results and same sides, doin same PCTs which everyone else is doin just cause that is “the internet truth”.
so i agree with you on just frontloading stuff for good, monitoring your weight and fat gain, and doin the cycle as long as you get something from it.
i read up on some people sayin : “im doin 12 week cycle, im on week 7, i dont gain any more weight, what should i do?”… i mean - ppl should stop the cycle if it doesnt work, but they will keep on following the “internet” cause its said - 12 weeks, then PCT…
what if i dont gain shit after week 5 and dont have any sides? smart idea would be to stop the cycle and forget about that type of protocol, yet many people would keep on pushing drugs into themselves with no benefit.
i mean - who knows, maybe you will gain good for 20 weeks, and why would you stop, just cause some smartass wrote some shit about “short cycles”.
everyone should always be ready to change the plan according to what they gain from the cycle, so i think that your plan is goin the right way 
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable
What is the least you have cruised on after cycle and still maintained a decent amount of muscle? 200mg? 150mg?
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
We are all on the way to trt.
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand cycling to be honest… you damage your hpta with each cycle, the practice is nonsensical. Blast and cruise… far better
once you get on aas, the inevitability that you will need trt increases exponentially
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
did you get a pm e-mail from me? and is that okay?
[/quote]
replied
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
We are all on the way to trt.
[/quote]
LOL already there…
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand cycling to be honest… you damage your hpta with each cycle, the practice is nonsensical. Blast and cruise… far better
once you get on aas, the inevitability that you will need trt increases exponentially [/quote]
Yea I guess that’s true lol. I suppose by cycling and going into pct again and again we are just fooling ourselves about recovery.
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand cycling to be honest… you damage your hpta with each cycle, the practice is nonsensical. Blast and cruise… far better
once you get on aas, the inevitability that you will need trt increases exponentially [/quote]
Yea I guess that’s true lol. I suppose by cycling and going into pct again and again we are just fooling ourselves about recovery.
[/quote]
basically… pct does hasten recovery yes, but the chance that you will be the same as you were pre-cycle is very, very slim
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
We are all on the way to trt.
[/quote]
prolly most of us are there, its just that it is kinda hard to know that being on a cycle…
there are some crazy risks involved in this sport but TRT isnt one of them imo.
especially if we are talking short cycles… 4 weeks on, 5-6 weeks off with proviron on the last week of the cycle, long esters stopped at week 3, clomid on second off week, hcg if anyone wants it… youll start next cycle without knowing you need a TRT.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand cycling to be honest… you damage your hpta with each cycle, the practice is nonsensical. Blast and cruise… far better
once you get on aas, the inevitability that you will need trt increases exponentially [/quote]
Whats your evidence that cycling damages ur hpta and you most likely will not return to pre cycle levels even with a proper pct? Jist curious!
[quote]captain_shred wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]
Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?[/quote]
about stopping once gains stall… a lot of people do this. they either stop and go to cruise dose, or up the dose for a little while until gains stall again assuming diet and training are on point
he was off in the sense that he ceases all aas…it is far better to go to cruise dose to maintain. if he thinks he is letting his hpta recover then he is hopelessly misinformed. instead, he is chipping away at it and will find himself on trt yes… it is inevitable [/quote]
Gotcha. Makes sense. So for instance, I run my minimal test cycle I proposed…and week 6 comes around and gains have stalled, either up the dose(I’d rather not lol) or just drop to a cruise dose until pct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand cycling to be honest… you damage your hpta with each cycle, the practice is nonsensical. Blast and cruise… far better
once you get on aas, the inevitability that you will need trt increases exponentially [/quote]
Whats your evidence that cycling damages ur hpta and you most likely will not return to pre cycle levels even with a proper pct? Jist curious!
[/quote]
well… you can try googling “low testosterone after pct” for a start, as for returning to pre cycle levels, you might, you might not, but you probably won’t, depends on quite a few factors. If you’re young and still maturing hormonally, and suddenly cut off your natural hormonal production, you most likely will not recover to where you once were. If you’re older and decide to cycle, well your testosterone is decreasing as you age anyway. Regardless of age or genetics(ability to recover) shutting off your hpta at all is going to have some kind of negative effect on natural production, it may take a few times to notice, but there’s no way it can be “good” as far as recovering naturally.