[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
use of arimidex, you could control E and boost T.
BBB[/quote]
Re-read that, OP…
High Protein diets will kill your kidneys too!
It honestly depresses me to see that this (lack of) information is what we are up against working with the medical communities.
I went to the doc with some skin pigment changes on my ankle - indicative of a type of skin cancer. I showed her and she asked me to confirm i was using hormones… i said i was and asked why it was relevant.
She proceeded to tell me that in some women she has heard (and never seen it personally) of pigment changes around the eyes only, due to Estrogen in the combination pill. AND that it was likely that…
I was stunned.
I explained that my estrogen is likely lower than most of the other men who come in to see her - as i actually manage it’s levels. Not only that but due to my skin type (moles) and my use of sunbeds i want a biopsy.
Remember that she didn’t mention ANY of this at all… it was all me.
How bad is that? I honestly do not ever mention any issues other than important ones now - as i simply cannot trust them to make a decision that is both correct and non-condescending.
A very poor state of affairs.
(remember that where i am i am not even breaking the law!)
BBB, I think that the endo sees the SERM blinding the breast tissue cells to estrogen. That should work. But clomid can have some nasty estrogen side effects in the brain and make one feel terrible. Nolvadex would have been a better choice.
Jonblood, also needs to be aware that he must taper off of a SERM, never dead stop. However, if switching from one SERM to another SERM one can simply change over.
Doctors have to have a photographic memory to get through med school. Deep understanding of the mechanics and analytical thinking seems to be optional. No surprise, we see this over and over again. But endocrinology is a narrow field. Maybe this endo needs to see a neurologist! Are we seeing incompetence or symptoms?
BBB,
I don’t have the numbers off hand, but my estrogen levels were in the normal range. The endo wrote all of my problems off to high protein and a lot of lifting. I’m having my blood checked again in a few weeks and am having a CT scan of my whole body to locate an possible tumors.
KSman - i have a question:
Is there a variable amount of breat tissue growth that can be stimulated from activity at that receptor?
I mean… in two men, is there differences in receptor sensitivity which may cause more breast growth in one than in the other, or is there a difference in the rate the breast tissue grows due to some other mechanism?
I mean - i am sure there are a number of factors at play in deciding how big a persons breast are, but is receptor sensitivity one of them?
What factors would be at play in him getting gyno with a normal estrogen level? (i assume an elevated progesterone level would be a factor)…
The second endo said that it wasn’t gyno, it was just fat accumulation under the nipple giving it a cone like appearance. There is also some visible lateral fat, but if it was gyno, he said it would look like women’s tits.
[quote] Brook wrote:
KSman - i have a question:
Is there a variable amount of breast tissue growth that can be stimulated from activity at that receptor?
I mean… in two men, is there differences in receptor sensitivity which may cause more breast growth in one than in the other, or is there a difference in the rate the breast tissue grows due to some other mechanism?
I mean - i am sure there are a number of factors at play in deciding how big a persons breast are, but is receptor sensitivity one of them?
What factors would be at play in him getting gyno with a normal estrogen level? (i assume an elevated progesterone level would be a factor)…[/quote]
Of course there must be a difference from individual to individual at a genetic level, just as there is a huge variability in breast size for women that transcends estrogen levels. In women, progesterone levels protect the breasts from over stimulation and cancers. One thing that is different between female and males is that males really do not have progesterone to balance their estrogens. Yes the E levels are different. But note that post menopausal women have E levels lower than men with male estrogen excess. Their fat husbands have more estrogen then they have. To the point, menopausal women have lower amounts of E, but trivial amounts of progesterone. That leads to breast caner even though E is low and if the same women use topical or oral [bioidentical] progesterone, the numbers of breast [and uterine] cancers are much lower. The point of all of this, is that estrogens in men may have much greater effects in men from the low progesterone levels. Sorry, that is a bit rambling. I think that the effects of estrogens are more pronounced for men than the serum levels would suggest, primarily because of low progesterone, and some guys are wired to be strongly affected and some not at all.
Other factors, genetics, estrogen, GH levels, hormone levels and fat intake at the time of high adolescent GH levels.
Some women who are taller with small breasts are obviously had lower E levels in their teens. These women can have lower E, but still lower progesterone and have very painful periods and, as a group, are more prone to breast cancers, even with their lower E levels. Some [very few] docs will treat some of these young women with E+progesterone, and as these are HPOA repressive, may also add testosterone to maintain or restore sex drive. Almost a hormone replacement. These women have their breasts fill out to their ‘genetic limits’, but there must also be some limits for having missed the GH levels of the teen years. Yet we see women go from B cups to C cups or larger after full term pregnancies. Thus the very high estrogen and progesterone levels of pregnancy can have very large results for some when GH levels are at a adult levels. I can only guess that teenage pregnancies while GH levels are high might have some very strong synergies. Pregnancy matures breast tissue and it is then more resistant to cycling E levels as growth signals that are associated with cancer. Full term pregnancies protect women from cancers.
The progestins in oral BC [xeno steroids], do some of the things that progesterone does, but fails to do many other things that [bioidentical] progesterone does. My thinking is that when progesterone is transported to the cells nucleus, that it alters more than one gene and RNA expression. Progestins do not do the job, worse yet, these xeno steroids may express genes and RNA that should not be activated. Note that moving one hydrogen atom from one location to another is the only difference between estrogen and DHT. Look at the differences in gene expression between estrogen and DHT in the cells. Now find a molecular diagram for the progestins and look as the vast differences.
Women on progestins have more heart disease related deaths compared to women on [bioidentical] progesterone. Women who use premarin [a spectrum of estrogens from horse urine] have more cancers, strokes and heart attacks as these zeno estrogens are more aggressive then a women’s natural estrogens. That means that the zeno estrogens are getting into the nucleus of the cells, everywhere, and changing the RNA expression of the genetic machinery.
As long as I am playing ‘endocrinology is my hobby’, I want to strongly state that women have a strong decline in progesterone levels starting around age 35. This is responsible for most of the female estrogen mediated cancers, mood problems and PMS as well as other things. Using a OTC progesterone cream [in the USA] can fix most of that. Using progestins makes everything worse. Doing nothing is dangerous. The reduced numbers of full term pregnancies that women have in this era is part of the reason for increased cancers and all forms of birth control make this all the worse. Oral BC with progestins makes cancer all the more likely to happen. I have helped a number of women deal with female problems with that cream and some other measures.
[quote]JonBlood wrote:
“…but if it was gyno, he said it would look like women’s tits…”[/quote]
This is fucking BS too. A man with gyno that is just bad enough to require surgery (and by medical standards this is significantly larger than any man would desire to live with) is nothing like any womens breasts i have seen (and no, not even the small ones).
Youi don’t wake up one day ith bouncing DD’s - there is a growth stage (which is what the soreness and tenderness signify according to the female friends i have spoken to)
You are the man. Thankyou very much!
[quote]KSman wrote:
Using a OTC progesterone cream [in the USA] can fix most of that. Using progestins makes everything worse.[/quote]
I can say yes to this from personal experience.
Excellent post.
Thank you very much!