In case anyone had forgotten, T-Nation conducted an interview with Rutten a while ago: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460148
JMB
[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
I thought that video was way cool and entertaining. Yes he is showing real and “real world” techniques, and yes he is also having a lot of fun/putting some personality into it.
but how does your critique of the first vid not apply here ?
Can you be more specific with what you mean? I’m not quite understanding where you are coming from.[/quote]
it just seems, to my untrained eye, that everything you said about the 1st vid could also be applied to the 2nd, even more so. i’m just wondering what the real difference was, aside from the 2nd guy’s entertainment factor. i’m not a fighter. couldn’t you also say what bas rutten does (on that vid)would only work with a stooge ?
What that guy is doing is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.
That is wing chun trapping.
And wing chun trapping does not work in a real altercation with a determined opponent.
It’s just true. I did wing chun for YEARS AND YEARS… And anytime you try using it with a mma guy who did Greco, he’ll TOAST you…
Wing Chun is just useless.
If you really want to learn Jeet Kune Do, go to straight blast gym, or any other PERFORMANCE MINDED MMA gym.
[quote]AlphaDragon wrote: Yes he is showing real and “real world” techniques, and yes he is also having a lot of fun/putting some personality into it.
[/quote]
You, Sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
Wing Chun is not “real world” technique - it is fucking worthless.
Modern Jeet Kune Do has discarded with Wing Chun. Only the “traditional” and “concept” guys still do this stuff.
Want to see a modern Jeet Kune Do fighter? Forrest Griffin.
Keep in mind, Bruce wanted his art to “grow and adapt.” He told others to “discard what is not useful” when you find something better.
Wing Chun was long ago discarded when fighters discovered the usefulness of Greco Roman and Collegiate Wrestling…
I used to do that crap. It is worthless.
Tommy was originally a boxer before he turned to JKD. He trained with Howard Williams and Ted Wong. He also has close ties with Bob Bremer and Tim Tackett.
He’s an excellent teacher and a hell of a nice guy.
Tone
[quote]wires wrote:
Wing Chun was long ago discarded when fighters discovered the usefulness of Greco Roman and Collegiate Wrestling…
I used to do that crap. It is worthless.[/quote]
Yeah try some wrestling on the streets of Glasgow and see how far you get. The inherent problem with all these wrestling techniques e.g. Greco, Sambo, etc is that they don’t take into consideration the other three or four guys who are trying to stab you with knifes. “Yeah guys can you wait a minute until your mate passes out in my choke hold and then I’ll deal with you”
JMB[/quote]
Still the best defense ever IMHO.
[quote]Takuin wrote:
Also, in one part of the video, he says that he doesn’t teach his students how to spar.[/quote]
He doesn’t teach his students how to spar. He teaches them how to fight. Tommy’s classes are pretty much designed for street fighting/self defense, not for the ring.
[quote]TONEdef wrote:
wires wrote:
Wing Chun was long ago discarded when fighters discovered the usefulness of Greco Roman and Collegiate Wrestling…
I used to do that crap. It is worthless.
Yeah try some wrestling on the streets of Glasgow and see how far you get. The inherent problem with all these wrestling techniques e.g. Greco, Sambo, etc is that they don’t take into consideration the other three or four guys who are trying to stab you with knifes. “Yeah guys can you wait a minute until your mate passes out in my choke hold and then I’ll deal with you”[/quote]
I dare say that no style of martial art is going to prevent you from getting seriously injured or killed if you have four determined, armed attackers each trying to stab you. With the exception of skill with a long gun…and some distance between you and them.
[quote]brand wrote:
I dare say that no style of martial art is going to prevent you from getting seriously injured or killed if you have four determined, armed attackers each trying to stab you. With the exception of skill with a long gun…and some distance between you and them. [/quote]
That’s why God invented Nikes;-D
I bet this guy could backhand the hell out of a bitch like 30 times in a row before she even blinked.
[quote]wires wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote: Yes he is showing real and “real world” techniques, and yes he is also having a lot of fun/putting some personality into it.
You, Sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
Wing Chun is not “real world” technique - it is fucking worthless.
Modern Jeet Kune Do has discarded with Wing Chun. Only the “traditional” and “concept” guys still do this stuff.
Want to see a modern Jeet Kune Do fighter? Forrest Griffin.
Keep in mind, Bruce wanted his art to “grow and adapt.” He told others to “discard what is not useful” when you find something better.
Wing Chun was long ago discarded when fighters discovered the usefulness of Greco Roman and Collegiate Wrestling…
I used to do that crap. It is worthless.[/quote]
An you, sir, totally misread my post or I didn’t clarify enough. My comment about “real world” was referring to Bas Rutten. In my first post I gave my opinion on the original thread.
[quote]swivel wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
I thought that video was way cool and entertaining. Yes he is showing real and “real world” techniques, and yes he is also having a lot of fun/putting some personality into it.
but how does your critique of the first vid not apply here ?
Can you be more specific with what you mean? I’m not quite understanding where you are coming from.
it just seems, to my untrained eye, that everything you said about the 1st vid could also be applied to the 2nd, even more so. i’m just wondering what the real difference was, aside from the 2nd guy’s entertainment factor. i’m not a fighter. couldn’t you also say what bas rutten does (on that vid)would only work with a stooge ? [/quote]
The difference is that Bas can back it up. WHile he was just “funning” around, the other guy was taking himself too seriously (especially for something that isn’t practical).
Bas’ stuff would work because he’s actually got power whereas the other guy does not.
In a real confrontation…everyone takes some lumps. You will get a few bruises/abrasions…simple fact.
As others have pointed out, the Wing Chun dude has no defense, and an open chin. In a real fight, both people will be slugging and I don’t see any way that dude can win against someone at least middle-intermediate…as (at least in the vids) we can’t see how he does when someone actually has a guard, punches back, and stands his ground.
BAS’s, however, takes control of the situation, whereas the other dude is merely show and no go.
every point I would make has pretty much been brought up…
True JKD has moved away from all of that trapping stuff a long time ago, it’s blended more of a ‘dirty’ boxing style with grappling and muai thai… Like someone brought up, a perfect example is Forrest Griffin.
As someone else brought up, YES Bas’ techniques are almost verbatim Kung Fu San Soo…IF you find a decent san soo instructor. I find that a lot of instructors do a lot of BS stuff still or don’t adapt little things to their style. For example they’ll still have their hands down and wont keep a guard up if in a confrontation. My instructor was a golden gloves boxer and actively pursued learning submissions in order to apply them to the art and learn to defend against those who would apply them against you.
It’s almost my personal opinion that some sparring should be included just to get used to someone really throwing combinations or flurrying etc. But thats a whole other issue.
Though I do believe Bas when he says that he collected these techniques through his experience as a bouncer and fighter. Simple fact is that they work. They’re basic, grimey, and effective. You fight enough you can learn them through experience like bas, or you can have someone teach you. Arts like Kung Fu San Soo, or Krav Maga.
Lastly, someone else brought up that Wing Chun boys techniques would work against “the average joe”. To an extent this is true, I could discuss the effects of adrenaline, where I’ve been hit with a myraid of blunt objects and shook it off ready to fight all because of a hormone.
But beyond all of that. Perhaps those techniques would work on a average joe schmo.
But who the hell trains to fight the average joe. You train to fight the skinhead convict who’s fought everyday for his life for the past 10-15yrs. You train to defend yourself against the person who’s been through so much that they find a reason in harming you.
If we trained to fight the average joe, then when your dad shows you how to throw a “proper punch” thats all you need. Throw a proper punch… to get better, throw a LOT of them.
No. Come on, this is T-Nation.
Don’t train average.