“The CDC and other health organizations report a higher incidence of Sexually Transmitted Diseases such as venereal disease, HIV, AIDS, and anal cancer, among homosexually active men and women than among heterosexually active people.”
Well we know for sure that the above can’t be right all of the politically correct liberals said that promiscuous hetors are exposed just as much to disease…GO FIGURE (shrugs shoulders)
"The Archives of Internal Medicine found that homosexuals acquired syphilis at a rate ten times that of heterosexuals.7 In 1999, the Center For Disease Control released data showing that male rectal gonorrhea is increasing among homosexuals amidst an overall decline in national gonorrhea rates.
The report attributed the increase to a larger percentage of homosexuals engaging in unsafe sexual behavior.8 In a study of the medical records of 1,408 lesbians, the journal Sexually Transmitted Infections found that women who have sexual relations with women are at significantly higher risk for certain sexually transmitted diseases, including hepatitis C and HIV.9"
The Archives of Internal medicine?
The Center For Disease Control?
Now who would listen to those right wing nut jobs?
"In their book MEN WHO BEAT THE MEN WHO LOVE THEM: BATTERED GAY MEN AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, D. Island and P. Letellier report that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."10 The Bureau of Justice Statistics (U.S. Department of Justice) reports that married women in traditional families experience the lowest rate of violence compared with women in other types of relationships.11
(Rolls eyes) Great! Now the US Department of Justice is in on all of this…this…hate information…Imagine claiming that married women suffer less violence when in a traditional family!
What the heck are they going to come up with next? (throws hands in the air)
Let me think, where can we find really really good information on how much pain that (many) homosexuals are really in?
I got it…all we have to do is listen to the main stream media, the gay lobbies, the liberals and the politically correct…they’ll steer us in the proper direction.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
"The Archives of Internal Medicine found that homosexuals acquired syphilis at a rate ten times that of heterosexuals.7 In 1999, the Center For Disease Control released data showing that male rectal gonorrhea is increasing among homosexuals amidst an overall decline in national gonorrhea rates.
The report attributed the increase to a larger percentage of homosexuals engaging in unsafe sexual behavior.8 In a study of the medical records of 1,408 lesbians, the journal Sexually Transmitted Infections found that women who have sexual relations with women are at significantly higher risk for certain sexually transmitted diseases, including hepatitis C and HIV.9"
The Archives of Internal medicine?
The Center For Disease Control?
Now who would listen to those right wing nut jobs?
[/quote]
We get it, Zeb: you don’t like fags. Get over it.
Forlife, Prof. X, Vroom,
…and all other “hateful liberals” 
I’ve read this thread from the beginning, I’ve laughed at it, I had fun argueing with Lorisco, I quoted sources, I got angry, I got grumpy, I got hurt - and I now am happy to give way. And I think so should you.
There is no way we will come to a conclusion here. As much as I disagree with ZEB and Stellar, I am happy to give way to them. Not because I was convinced by their arguments - as I do trust in professional medical and psychological organisations, the stuff that I learnt in my psychology classes and my continuosly positive experiences with gay people - because over many years I have seen that their worldview has been inch by inch pushed back.
I understand that they see that as a threat - and that is good, as our societies need people who uphold traditional values, so that progress does not get mindless and starts being destructive. But what they perceive as a threat is positive progress to many of us. And as for the acceptance of homosexual relationships (whatever may be their cause), the last 50 years have been pretty good in the West, after centuries of persecution, in many cases harmful attempts at therapy and outright violence.
It is actually great that we have a debate here, and not all agree that gays should be killed, punished or therapied; and I am delighted to see that a majority does not agree with the sickness model (agreeing with the clear majority of health professionals).
Are there dangers connected to sexual behaviours? Fuck yeah - and there are many people out there who do dumb things with their knobs which cause suffering and death. Most of them are based on false information, and a hindrance to let science and education fulfill their humane goals. And that is something we all have to work on - including some dumb gay men who do dumb things, and some equally dumb heteros…
Fortunately, people who display homosexual behaviour have been less and less on the receiving end of that suffering - and as I believe in small steps towards a common good, I am happy with that. Has there been resistance? Yes. Has it been getting weaker? Yes. And that’s a good thing.
So, let’s cherish the “propaganda” movies like Brokeback carry - because a few decades back, they wouldn’t have been made. After all the denial of propaganda in the movie (and I haven’t even seen it yet), I can live with the verdict that it propagates (sic!) a zeitgeist that is much more tolerant than violent.
So my respect to all of you who held up their banners - and that includes ZEB, Lorisco and Stellar - give it a rest now. No one is going to win here, and no one has to, as society is changing as we speak and we have all taken our part in that.
And so to bed,
Makkun
[quote]ZEB wrote:
“The CDC and other health organizations report a higher incidence of Sexually Transmitted Diseases such as venereal disease, HIV, AIDS, and anal cancer, among homosexually active men and women than among heterosexually active people.”
Well we know for sure that the above can’t be right all of the politically correct liberals said that promiscuous hetors are exposed just as much to disease…GO FIGURE (shrugs shoulders)
:)[/quote]
I don’t think you would find a single so-called politically correct liberal that would not admit that gays have higher incidents of sexually transmitted disease. Anal sex by it’s nature transmitss STDs more readily. There is also more promiscuity among gays. You will find that highly promiscuous heteros and those engaging in unprotected sex even moreso have significantly higher rates of STDs than less promiscuos heteros who are practicing safe sex. As for gays, as I have said, I don’t see preventing anal sex as practical. At least not as of yet. But we should definitely be discouraging risky behaviors and other unsafe sexual practices such as unprotected sex and encouraging monogamy.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
forlife wrote:
Why would ANYONE listen to Narth, and ignore the world’s major medical and mental health organizations, assuming they were genuinely interested in knowing the TRUTH about homosexuality?
That is the problem with Zeb. I have some respect for him. But he already knows when he thinks and when there is legitimate information that is the opposite conclusion he dismisses the people advancing it as biased.
Only when they are biased.[/quote]
hahahaha! All of your sources are also biased. Because I say so. Because they in fact are.
Good points, Makkun. I am done as well. I have yet to see why any of these statistics about gays, assuming they are all true and the studies where well-performed with confounds eliminated, mean they shouldn’t have civil unions. SO many heterosexula marriages are a debacle, end in divorce, aren’t happy, etc… But many are. I see no reason why civil unions shouldn’t get the same right to have their shot [apart from the religious recognition], irrespective of whether even a lower percentage of them are likely to be succesfful. And I doubt I ever will.
The only argument that made any sense whatsoever was the effect such marriages might have on potential adopted children. But I still think that is a decision better left to private adoption agencies, as is already being done. As there are already adoptions to self-proclaimed gay couples (mostly lesbians).
Peace out.
[quote]forlife wrote:
It wouldn’t surprise me if Zeb just ignores this point again, and continues spouting Spitzer as if it actually supports his argument.[/quote]
Are you nutty forlife?
They conducted telephone interviews two years after and not one had “changed back.”
You take that to mean that they are really harboring same sex attraction huh?
Wow sorry for you man.
In reality they stated they were quite happy as heterosexuals.
Think they were lying still?
Okay
Yes, everyone is biased against homosexuals…(eye roll)
The CDC, the US Justice Dept. And many credible research scientists…all hate homosexuals.
Yikes…(someone has a complex…or two)
Now if you don’t mind I would like you to answer something that you have been dodging for several posts:
Please tell me how each of these could be wrong. And if you leave any of them out I will assume that you have no answer and the study, or story is correct:
Now get busy:
"(1993). STD Treatment Guidelines: Proctitis, Proctocolitis, and Enteritis. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: www.ama-assn.org/special/std/treatmnt/guide/stdg3470.htm.
GBS problems such as proctitis, proctocolitis, and enteritis as ?sexually transmitted gastrointestinal syndromes.?
(1998). Hepatitis C: Epidemiology: Transmission Modes. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: www.cdc.gov/nidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/edu/1/default.htm.
Men who have sex with men who engage in unsafe sexual practices remain at an increased risk for contracting hepatitis C.
(1998, September 4). Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 708.
?Outbreaks of hepatitis A among men who have sex with men are a recurring problem in many large cities in the industrialized world.?
(1999, December). Table 9. Male Adult/Adolescent AIDS Cases by Exposure Category and Race/Ethnicity. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention. Available at www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1102/table9.
?Men who have sex with men? and ?men who have sex with men and inject drugs? together accounted for 64 percent of the cumulative total of male AIDS cases.
(1999, January 29). Increases in unsafe sex and rectal gonorrhea among men who have sex with men ? San Francisco, California, 1994-1997. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 45.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1994 to 1997 the proportion of homosexuals reporting having had anal sex increased from 57.6 percent to 61.2 percent, while the percentage of those reporting ?always? using condoms declined from 69.6 percent to 60 percent.
The proportion of men reporting having multiple sex partners and unprotected anal sex increased from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent.
(1999, January 29). Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 48.
Male rectal gonorrhea is increasing among homosexuals amidst an overall decline in national gonorrhea rates.
(2000, November 14). Young People at Risk: HIV/AIDS among America?s Youth. Divisions of HIV/AIDS Prevention (Centers for Disease Control). Available at:
www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/youth.htm.
?At least half of all new HIV infections in the United States are among people under twenty-five, and the majority of young people are infected sexually.? By the end of 1999, 29,629 young people aged thirteen to twenty-four were diagnosed with AIDS in the United States. MSM were the single largest risk category: in 1999, for example, 50 percent of all new AIDS cases were reported among young homosexuals.
(2000, September 29). Viral Hepatitis B ? Frequently Asked Questions. National Center for Infectious Diseases (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: Division of Viral Hepatitis | CDC.
Men who have sex with men are at increased risk for hepatitis B.
Increases in unsafe sex and rectal gonorrhea among men who have sex with men ? San Francisco, California, 1994-1997. Journal of the American Medical Association. 281 (8): 696-697.
Interviews of 21, 850 males: Increasing percentages of men who have sex with men reported engaging in unprotected anal intercourse. There was an Increase in rectal gonorrhea rates.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Morbidity and Morality Weekly Report. 51 (33): 733-736.
920 young black males, ages 15-22, who have sex with men, have very high rates (16%) of HIV infection.
Beral, et al., op cit.; Corey, Lawrence, and King K. Holmes. (1980, February 21). Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 302: (8) 435-438.
Bradford, J. (2002, July 10). Lesbian and bisexual health: an overview for healthcare providers. Journal Watch Women?s Health [On-line], Available: womens-health.jwatch.org.
Lesbian and bisexual women have higher reported rates of risk for cancer and cardiovascular disease as well as obesity and High rates of human papilloma virus infection.
Calabrese, L. Harris, B., Easley, K. (1987) Analysis of variables impacting on safe sexual behavior among homosexual men in the area of low incidence for AIDS. Paper presented at the Third International Conference for AIDS. Washington DC. (in Stall 1988)
Sample of gay men living outside of the large coastal gay communities, found that neither attendance at a safe sex lecture, reading a safe sex brochure, receiving advice from a physician about AIDS, testing for HIV antibodies, nor counseling at an alternative test site was associated with participation in safe sex.
Cannon, M.J. et al. (2001, March 1). Blood-borne and sexual transmission of human herpesvirus 8 in women with or at risk for human immunodeficiency virus infection. The New England Journal of Medicine. 344 (9): 637-743.
?Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV-8), the causal agent of Kaposi?s sarcoma, is transmitted sexually among homosexual men.?
Cochran, S.D. et al. (2001 April). Cancer-related risk indicators and preventive screening behaviors among lesbians and bisexual women. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (4); 178-81.
prevalence rates were found in lesbian/bisexual women for obesity, alcohol use, and tobacco use.
Daling, J.R. et al. (1987, October 15). Sexual practices, sexually transmitted diseases, and the incidence of anal cancer. The New England Journal of Medicine. 317 (16): 973-977.
Anal cancers was strongly associated with a history of male homosexual activity.
et al. (2000, July). Sexually Transmitted Infections and Risk Behaviors in Women Who Have Sex with Women. Sexually Transmitted Infections. p. 345.
Women who have sexual relations with women are at significantly higher risk for certain sexually transmitted diseases: ?BV (bacterial vaginosis), hepatitis C, and HIV risk behaviors in WSW as compared with controls.?
Frieberg, P. (2001, January 12). Study: Alcohol Use More Prevalent for Lesbians. The Washington Blade. p. 21.
Lesbian women consume alcohol more frequently, and in larger amounts, than heterosexual women. Lesbians were at significantly greater risk than heterosexual women for both binge drinking (19.4 percent compared to 11.7 percent), and for heavy drinking (7 percent compared to 2.7 percent).
Frisch, M.F. et al. (1997, November 6). Sexually transmitted infection as a cause of anal cancer. The New England Journal of Medicine. 337 (19): 1350-1358.
In a study of 324 women and 93 men with invasive or in situ anal cancer, findings supported the previously recognized association between anal cancer and homosexual contact.
Garbo, J. (2000, July 18). Gay and Bisexual Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV. Gay Health News. Available at www.gayhealth.com/templates/0/news?record=136.
Thirty-six percent of homosexuals engaging in unprotected oral, anal, or vaginal sex failed to disclose that they were HIV positive to casual sex partners.
45 percent of homosexuals reporting having had unprotected anal intercourse during the previous six months did not know the HIV serostatus of all their sex partners. 68 percent did not know the HIV serostatus of their partners.
Hastings, G.E., Weber, R.W. (1993). Inflammatory bowel disease: Part I. Clinical features and diagnosis. American Family Physician. 47: 598-608.
Hogg, R.S. et al. (1997). Modeling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men. International Journal of Epidemiology. 26 (3): 657-661.
?Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday.?
Hoover, D., Munoz, A., Carey, V., Chmiel, J., Taylor, J., Margolick, J., Kingsley, L., Vermund, S. (1991) Estimating the 1978-1990 and future spread of human immunodeficiency virus type 1 in subgroups of homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 134, 10:1190-1205.
?The overall probability of seroconversion [from HIV- to HIV+] prior to age 55 years is about 50%, with seroconversion still continuing at and after age 55. Given that this cohort consists of volunteers receiving extensive and anti-HIV-1 transmission education, the future seroconversion rates of the general homosexual population may be even higher.
Jaffe, et al., op cit.; Quinn, Thomas C., et al. (1983, September 8). The Polymicrobial Origin of Intestinal Infections in Homosexual Men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 309: (10) 576-582.
Judson, F.N. et al. (1980). Comparative Prevalence Rates of Sexually Transmitted Diseases in Heterosexual and Homosexual Men. The American Journal of Epidemiology. 112: 836-843.
Laughon, B.E., Druckman, D.A., et al., (1988). Prevalence of enteric pathogens in homosexual men with and without acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. Gastroenterology. 94: 984-993.
Miles, A.J. et al. (1993, March). Effect of anorreceptive intercourse on anorectal function. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. 83: (3) 144-147.
Morris, M., Dean, L., (1994) Effects of sexual behavior change on long-term human immunodeficiency virus prevalence among homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 140, 3: 217-232.
Osmond, D., Page, K., Wiley, J., Garrett, K., Sheppard, H., Moss, A., Schrager, K., Winkelstein, W., (1994) HIV infection in homosexual and bisexual men 18 to 29 years of age: The San Francisco young men?s health study. American Journal of Public Health. 84, 12: 1933-1937.
Household survey of unmarried men 18 through 29 years of age found that of 328 homosexual men 20.1% tested positive tested for HIV.
Pauk, J., et al. (2000, November 9). Mucosal shedding of human herpesvirus 8 in men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 343: 1369-1377.
Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV-8) is likely the cause of Kaposi?s Sarcoma. Its prevalence in men who have sex with men is much higher than in the general population.
Quinn, T.C. (1984). Gay bowel syndrome. The broadened spectrum of non-genital infection. Postgraduate Medicine. 76: 197-198, 201-210.
Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men. NY: Dutton.
?Who wants to encourage their kids to engage in a life that exposes them to a 50 percent chance of HIV infection? Who even wants to be neutral about such a possibility? If the rationale behind social tolerance of homosexuality is that it allows gay kids an equal shot at the pursuit of happiness, that rationale is hopelessly undermined by an endless epidemic that negates happiness.? (p. 286)
Roundy, B. (2000, December 8). STD?s Up Among Gay Men: CDC Says Rise is Due to HIV Misperceptions. The Washington Blade. Available at: www.washblade.com/health/a.
"A San Francisco study of Gay and bisexual men revealed that HPV infection was almost universal among HIV-positive men, and that 60 percent of HIV-negative men carried HPV.
Schwabke, J.R. (1991, April). Syphilis in the 90s. Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality. 44-49.
Syphilis and gonorrhea are rising in the homosexual and bisexual population.
Shehan, D.A. et al. (2003). HIV/STD Risks in Young Men Who Have Sex with Men Who Do Not Disclose Their sexual Orientation. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 52: 81-86.
Young MSM who do not disclose their sexual orientation (non-disclosers) are thought to be at particularly high risk for human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection because of low self-esteem, depression, or lack of peer support and prevention services that are available to MSM who are more open about their sexuality (disclosers).
Smith, T.W. (1991, May/June). Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989: Number of Partners, Frequency of Intercourse and Risk of AIDS. Family Planning Perspectives. 23: (3) 102-107 (Table 2, 104).
Valleroy, L.A. et al. (2000, July 12). HIV prevalence and associated risks in young men who have sex with men. Journal of the American Medical Association. 284 (2): 198-204.
Men who have sex with men were found to have a 100 to 700 times greater prevalence rate of HIV infection than primarily heterosexual men who applied for service in the U.S. military. Men who have sex with men were also found to have a high prevalence of hepatitis B viral markers (10.7%). High HIV rates were correlated with anal sex and having had sex with 20 or more men.
Zavodnick, J.M. (1989, January). Detection and Management of Sexual Abuse of Boys. Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality. 80-90.
?Sixteen percent of adult men in the general population have said they were sexually abused as children.?
Zmuda, R. (2000, August 17). Rising Rates of Anal Cancer for Gay Men. Cancer News. Available at: cancerlinksusa.com/cancernews_sm/Aug2000/081700analcancer.
?Most instances of anal cancer are caused by a cancer-causing strain of HPV through receptive anal intercourse. HPV infects over 90 percent of HIV-positive gay men and 65 percent of HIV-negative gay men, according to a number of recent studies.?
And there’s more
Aaron, D.J., Markovic, N., Danielson, M.E., et al. (2001). Behavioral risk factors for disease and preventive health practices among lesbians. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (6): 972-975.
Lesbians were more likely to report cigarette use, alcohol use, and heavy alcohol use.
Bailey, J.M. (1999, October). Homosexuality and Mental Illness. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 883-884.
?Homosexual people are at a substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression and anxiety disorder. Gay, lesbian, or bisexual people were at an increased lifetime risk for suicidal ideation and behavior, major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence.?
Beitchman, J., Zucker, K., Hood, J., DaCosta, G., Akman, D. (1991) A review of the short-term effects of child sexual abuse. Child Abuse & Neglect. 15:257-556.
?Among adolescents, commonly reported sequalae (of child sexual abuse) include sexual dissatisfaction, promiscuity, homosexuality, and an increased risk for re-victimization.? (p. 537)
?A review of studies reporting symptomology among sexually abused adolescents revealed evidence for the presence of depression, low self-esteem, and suicidal ideation.? (p. 544)
Bradford, J. et al. (1994). National Lesbian Health Care Survey: Implications for Mental Health Care. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 62: 239, cited in Health Implications Associated with Homosexuality, p. 81.
More than half of lesbians had felt too nervous to accomplish ordinary activities at some time during the past year and over one-third had been depressed.
Bradley, S., Zucker, K. (1997) Gender identity disorder: A review of the past 10 Years. Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 34, 7:872-880.
?Girls with GID [Gender Identity Disorder] ?have difficulty connecting with their mothers, who are perceived as weak and ineffective. We see this perception as arising from the high levels of psychopathology observed in these mothers, especially severe depression and borderline personality disorder.? (p. 877)
?In our female adolescents with GID, a history of sexual abuse or fears of sexual aggression has appeared commonly.? (p. 878)
Cochran, S.D., Mays, V.M. (2000). Relation between psychiatric syndromes and behaviorally defined sexual orientation in a sample of the US population. American Journal of Epidemiology. 151 (5): 516-523.
Homosexually active men were more likely than other men to have evidence of major depression and panic attack syndromes. Homosexually active women were more likely than other women to be classified with alcohol or drug dependency syndromes. Both men and women reporting any same-gender sex partners were more likely than others to have used mental health services.
Diamant, A.L., Wold, C., Sritzer, K., Gelberg, L. (2000, November-December). Health Behaviors, Health Status, and Access to and Use of Health Care. Archives of Family Medicine. 9: 1043-1051.
Lesbians and bisexual women were more likely than heterosexual women to use tobacco products and to report any alcohol consumption, but only lesbians were significantly more likely than heterosexual women to drink heavily.
Fergusson, D., Horwood., L., Beautrais, A. (1999) Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10:876-888.
The gay, lesbian, bisexual subjects have significantly higher rates of: suicidal ideation (67.9%/29.0%), suicide attempt (32.1%/7.1%), and psychiatric disorders age 14-21 ? major depression (71.4%/38.2%), generalized anxiety disorder (28.5%/12.5%), conduct disorder (32.1%11.0%), nicotine dependence (64.3%/26.7%), other substance abuse/dependence (60.7%/44.3%), and multiple disorders (78.6%/38.2%) than the heterosexual sample. (p. 879)
Findings support recent evidence suggesting that gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people are at increased risk of mental health problems, with these associations being particularly evident for measures of suicidal behavior and multiple disorder.
Fifield, L., Latham, J., Phillips, C. (1977) Alcoholism in the Gay Community: The Price of Alienation, Isolation and Oppression, A Project of the Gay Community Service Center, Los Angeles, CA.
??an alarming number of gay men and women (31.96%) are trapped in an alcohol-centered lifestyle.?
Garafolo, R., Wolf, R., Kessel, S., Palfrey, J., DuRant, R., (1998) The association between health risk behaviors and sexual orientation among a school-based sample of adolescents: Youth risk behavior survey. Pediatrics. 101, 5:895-903.
?Gay and bisexual teenagers may take more risks, and engage in risky behavior earlier in life, than teenagers who describe themselves as heterosexual. GLB [gay, lesbian, bisexual] teenagers were more likely to consider or attempt suicide, abuse alcohol or drugs, participate in risky sexual activity, or be victimized, and to initiate these behaviors earlier.?
Gilman, S.E., Cochran, S.D., Mays, V.M., et al. (2001) Risk of psychiatric disorders among individuals reporting same-sex sexual partners in the National Comorbidity Survey. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (6): 933-939.
Higher 12-month prevalences of anxiety, mood, and substance use disorders and of suicidal thoughts and plans than did respondents with opposite-sex partners only. Homosexual orientation, defined as having same-sex sexual partners, is associated with a general elevation of risk for anxiety, mood, and substance use disorders and for suicidal thoughts and plans.
Herrell, R. et al. (1999, October). Sexual Orientation and Suicidality: a Co-Twin Control Study in Adult Men. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56 (10): 867-874.
This study of male twins who were Vietnam veterans found that male homosexuals were 5.1 times more likely to experience suicidal thoughts and behaviors than were their heterosexual twins.
Jorm, A.F. et al. (2002). Sexually orientation and mental health: results from a community survey of young and middle-aged adults. British Journal of Psychiatry. 180: 423-427.
The bisexual group was highest on measures of anxiety, depression and negative affect, with the homosexual group falling between the other two groups. Both the bisexual and homosexual groups were high on suicidality.
McKirnan, D.J., Peterson, P.L., (1989). Alcohol and drug use among homosexual men and women: epidemiology and population characteristics. Addictive Behavior. 14 (5): 545-553.
?This paper presents the findings of a large (n-3400) survey of the homosexual population?Substantially higher proportions of the homosexual sample used alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine than was the case in the general population.?
Moran, N. (1996, May). Lesbian health care needs. Canadian Family Physician. 42: 879-884.
Lesbians were found to smoke, drink alcohol and use caffeine more than other women.
Mulry, G., Kalichman, S., Kelly, J. (1994) ?Substance use and unsafe sex among gay men: Global versus situational use of substances. Journal of Sex Educators and Therapy. 20, 3: 175-184.
??men who never drank prior to sex were very unlikely to have engaged in unprotected anal intercourse, whereas 90% of men who had at least one occasion of unprotected anal intercourse also drank at least some of the time prior to sexual intercourse.? ??a virtual absence of individuals who did not drink but did engage unprotected anal intercourse.? (p. 181)
Parris, J., Zweig-Frank, H., Guzder, J. (1995) Psychological factors associated with homosexuality in males with borderline personality disorders. Journal of Personality Disorders. 9, 11: 56-61.
The rate of homosexuality in the BPD [Borderline Personality Disorder] sample was 16.7%, as compared with 1.7% in the non-BPD comparison group. The homosexual BPD group had a rate of overall Childhood Sexual Abuse of 100% as compared to 37.3% for the heterosexual BPD group. ?It is interesting that 3 out of 10 homosexual borderline patients also reported father-son incest.? (p. 59)
Remafedi, G. (1999, October). Suicide and Sexual Orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 885-886.
The 1989 Report of the Secretary?s Task Force on Youth Suicide concluded that ?gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people. They may comprise up to 30% of completed youth suicides annually. To date, at least 10 peer-reviewed studies have found unusually high rates of attempted suicide, in the range of 20% to 42% among young bisexual and homosexual research volunteers. All have found a clinically and statistically significant association between suicide attempts and homosexuality, strongest among males.
Ritter, Malcolm (May 1999) Study: Some Gays Can Go Straight, Associated Press.
“Perhaps the most significant study to date was reported by Robert L. Spitzer, MD at the American Psychiatric Association. In his research, Dr. Spitzer studied 200 men and women who had participated in gender affirmative therapy. He concluded that 66% of the men and 44% of the women had arrived at what he called good heterosexual functioning. In addition, 89% of the men and 95% of the women said they were bothered slightly, or not at all, by unwanted homosexual feelings.”
Rogers, C., Roback, H., McKee, E., Calhoun, D. (1976) Group psychotherapy with homosexuals: A review. International Journal of Group Psychotherapy. 31, 3: 3-27
?In general, reports on the group treatment of homosexuals are optimistic; in almost all cases the therapists report a favorable outcome of therapy whether the therapeutic goal was one of achieving a change in sexual orientation or whether it was a reduction in concomitant problems.? (p.22)
Saghir, J., Robins, E. (1973) Male and Female Homosexuality: A Comprehensive Investigation. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins.
30% of the homosexuals in their sample reported excessive drinking or alcohol dependence. (p. 119)
The average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years (p. 225)
Sandfort, T.G., de Graaf, R., Bijl, R.V., Schnabel, P. (2001, January). Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders: findings from the Netherlands mental health survey and incidence study. (NEMESIS). Archives of General Psychiatry. 58: 85-91.
A Dutch study of 5998 heterosexual and homosexual men and women showed that ?psychiatric disorders were more prevalent among homosexually active people compared with heterosexually active people?On a lifetime basis, homosexual women had a significantly higher prevalence of general mood disorders and major depression than did heterosexual women?Lifetime prevalence of both alcohol and other drug dependence was also significantly higher in homosexual women than in heterosexual women.?
Skegg, K. et al. (2003, March). Sexual orientation and self-harm in men and women. American Journal of Psychiatry. 160 (3): 541-546.
New Zealand study of 770 heterosexual men and women and 172 men and women who experienced different degrees of same sex attraction, the authors found: That attempts to inflict self harm increase with the degree of homosexual attraction. There were elevated rates of substance abuse in both sexes experiencing same sex attraction. This was particularly prominent in lesbians.
Valamis, B.G., Bowen, D.J., Bassford, T., et al. (2000, September-October). Sexual Orientation and Health. Archives of Family Medicine. 9: 843-853.
Lesbian and bisexual women more often used alcohol and cigarettes, exhibited other risk factors for reproductive cancers and cardiovascular disease, and scored lower on measures of mental health and social support.
Whitehead, Neil, Whitehead, Brian. (1999) My Genes Made Me Do It! A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation, 158-159.
Neil Whitehead tabulated other twin studies on other topics and those traits’ heritability: lying–43%, anorexia nervosa–44%, fear of the unknown–46%, psychological inpatient care–47%, extroversion–50%, depression–50%, altruism–50%, divorce–52%, racial prejudice, bigotry–70%.
“(Dean) Hamer’s genetic sequences have been calculated to affect about 5% of the homosexual population, so even if he is correct, there must be some other explanation for what causes the vast majority of homosexuality.”
“If a hormonal imbalance was responsible for homosexuality, then perhaps a simple dose of hormones to an adult would cure homosexuality. This is not the case, as has been demonstrated several times.”
Zubenko, G., George, A., Soloff, P., Schulz, P. (1987) Sexual practices among patients with borderline personality disorder. American Journal Psychiatry. 144, 6: 748-752.
?Homosexuality was 10 times more common among the men and six times more common among the women with borderline personality disorder than in the general population or in a depressed control group.? (p. 748)
When you are finished explaining each of the above I will be more than happy to discuss anything else you like. If you want to move forward you cannot continue to ignore the facts about homosexuality.
As to your list, I agree with your statement “people generally cannot change their same sex attraction.” I would only add that if you take an average of all the studies performed the change rate would be somewhere between 30% and 50%. Hence, without a strong desire to do so I think change is rather difficult. In fact it’s difficult either way.
I never stated anything to the contrary.
Really, what is your point?
Are you claiming that no one has ever changed from same sex attraction to opposite sex attraction?
You know that’s nutty right?
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
forlife wrote:
Why would ANYONE listen to Narth, and ignore the world’s major medical and mental health organizations, assuming they were genuinely interested in knowing the TRUTH about homosexuality?
That is the problem with Zeb. I have some respect for him. But he already knows when he thinks and when there is legitimate information that is the opposite conclusion he dismisses the people advancing it as biased.
Only when they are biased.
hahahaha! All of your sources are also biased. Because I say so. Because they in fact are.[/quote]
I know the CDC and the Justice Department are freaking hate filled gay bashers LOL
[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
He cannot. There is zero legitimate basis to argue a causal link between civil unions and increased promiscuity and risky behaviors. There is some logical basis to assume it will encourage monogamy and more stable lifestyles. Otherwise, the status quo will be maintained.
There is also some logical basis to assume it will encourage homsexuality. And until you or anyone else can prove how one becomes homosexual you cannot refute this!
Give me the logical basis. A causal connection please. Then I’ll grant you that.
Okay:
As long as no one knows how someone becomes gay,(and currently no one does) then how can you state that government sanctioning of gay marriage would not promote homosexual activity?
What (formerly taboo) subject that is promoted and sanctioned made less attractive?
[/quote]
Mmmm…I can’t resist. So the fact that legal recognition of gay civil unions exist is going to increase the physiological and psychological changes that constitute being gay that already can and do take place and its absence? Pretty weak. That is not a causal connection. It’s not even a casual hypothesis. A causual hypothesis articulates a specific mechanism by which a result comes about. One may be able to poke plenty of holes in it but it still describes a specific mechanism. Not: “No one knows how people become gay. Therefore, legal civil unions might cause more people to become gay because of X. More gays increases the liklihood of promiscuity.” You would need to fill in the X for it to be a real causal connection. Still, that does not mean that sanctioned civil unions would increase promiscuity in those who are already day. That would require a separate hypothesis. And I’m not going to give you the dots to connect for that one. You can figure it out yourself.
But I will give a specific mechanism by which sanctinoned civil unions might decrease promiscuity. Marriage constitutes a committment to each other and committment to fidelity for most people. This is true even with a justice of the peace and not a religious ceremony. Even in legalized civil unions that have already existed, there is an exchange of vows. There is a promise of fidelity. In a way there isn’t in it’s absence.
People take vows and promises seriously, in a religious context or any other context. If I say I will do something, I will try to do it. But if I PROMISE to do something, I’ll do everything in my power to make it happen. A lot of people are like that. Even if gays are inherently more promiscuous as you state, this is one more level of committment and one more thing to take seriously and additional impetus to be faithful. From the baseline of behavior without these promises and vows, the likely result is an increase in fidelity and monogamy when a committment is made analogous to marriage.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
The politically correct rhetoric is bunk. There are two sides: one is for gay marriage, civil unions, or ‘gay rights’ and the other is against it. Both sides have their reasons. It’s a polarizing issue and both feel pretty strongly about it and are pretty vocal. It has nothing to do with political correctness.
Really? How many movies in the last 5 years glorified illegal drug use as a good alternative lifestyle? Now how many have glorified the homosexual lifestyle like brokeback?
Sorry Bro, but being gay is cool and PC and being a drugy is not.
What? Did you see How High? What about the movie that put Dave Chappelle on the map, Half Baked? Dude, do you get out at all? You have lost all rights to even pretend that you hang out in the real world.
And how many of these drugy movies received awards? Ooops, didn’t think about that did you.
Comparing serious drama movies to goofy stoner movies like half-baked is not reasonable. You have lost all rights to ever give movie advice!
What? Some movies like Friday, regardless of having received awards, are so well known they might as well be urban classics. It is very rare for any urban movie to get an award. Boyz N The Hood had an all star cast and didn’t get any awards. That speaks more towards overall bias of films like that than anything else. I could care less about any awards this movie got just like most people DO NOT CARE. People don’t base movies they watch on oscar winners. At least no one I know does this so you have no point. It winning an award shouldn’t even be the issue. You said that there were no movies that glorified drug use. This is FALSE. the movies that have are well known and are VERY POPULAR.
Anyone who is near my age and never saw Friday is probably someone I have little in common with.[/quote]
Hey, I liked Friday, but the sequel was lame.
My point was that there are few serious movies that glorified drug use that are well accepted. The most recent I can think of was Blow! And it did not glorify drugs.
I agree with the bias against urban movies. But if you can believe that there seems to be a bias against urban movies (i.e. no awards), why is it so hard to believe there is a bias for gay movies?
Also, I’m talking about Hollywood’s bias, not why people go to movies or what is popular with people. Most of the time, the movies that are popular with people are not the one’s that Hollywood gives awards to. So perhaps that is support for the idea that the people are not falling for what Hollywood is pushing, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t really pushing an agenda.
I’m out for tonight. Taking my wife and kids out for a little surf and turf.
Hopefully when I come back to this thread everyone will agree with me
Ohhhhh I know that’s not going to happen.
Have a nice night all.
[quote]makkun wrote:
Forlife, Prof. X, Vroom,
…and all other “hateful liberals”
I’ve read this thread from the beginning, I’ve laughed at it, I had fun argueing with Lorisco, I quoted sources, I got angry, I got grumpy, I got hurt - and I now am happy to give way. And I think so should you.
Makkun[/quote]
Well at least you had fun!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How about hit tv shows, like Sex & the City, where smoking, rampant promiscuity, drinking, and drug use are highly glamourized? Critically acclaimed and the recipient of numerous awards as well. It is hardly unique to this issue
Hey lorisco, when you find yourself in a debate with people who are not yet aware (or refuse to admit) that Hollywood is liberal…well you are sort of wasting your time.
Here is a thread I had from the last Presidential race. It points out quite clearly whose side Hollywood is on.
http://www.isteve.com/2003_Few_Republicans_in_Hollywood.htm
But keep in mind when debating with liberals that your facts mean nothing!
Ha ha…Liberals are funny people
[/quote]
I know, it’s because the facts don’t feeeeel as good as the lies!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
“A recent report by Dr. Timothy J. Daily cites more than 75 scientific and health studies from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and elsewhere proving that homosexual and lesbian relationships are typically characterized by instability, promiscuity, disease, and behavioral problems.”
The CDC? Why what does that goverment agency know? :)[/quote]
Hey man, stop confusing me with the facts, I want to continue to believe the hype because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!
[quote]forlife wrote:
So you see, even in Zeb’s biased selection of studies, the “success rate” is in question. People don’t really change who they find attractive…only their external behavior changes. Even Spitzer admits that true change is “probably quite uncommon”.
[/quote]
And what is wrong with that? So what if a child molester continues to be attracted to kids. As long as he doesn’t act on it then there is no problem. No one here is the thought police. It is the behavior that causes the issues, not the thoughts.
Are you saying that if you think it you have to act on it? If I was married and saw a sexy babe, that wasn’t my wife, and wanted to get busy with her then I have no choice but to do the deed? Right? Just like gays, right? No choice!
Everyone (out of jail) has thoughts and feelings that are not the best actions for themselves or the situation. So we all, to some extent, control our behavior and don’t act on every random thought that comes into out heads. But you want us to believe that gays just don’t have that ability? They are attracted to the same sex and have to act on it?
So what you don’t get is that yes, many gays have become straight IN BEHAVIOR (not thought) and are just fine with it. We all need to control our urges, why should gays be any different? Welcome to the human race bro!
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
forlife wrote:
So you see, even in Zeb’s biased selection of studies, the “success rate” is in question. People don’t really change who they find attractive…only their external behavior changes. Even Spitzer admits that true change is “probably quite uncommon”.
And what is wrong with that? So what if a child molester continues to be attracted to kids. As long as he doesn’t act on it then there is no problem. No one here is the thought police. It is the behavior that causes the issues, not the thoughts.
Are you saying that if you think it you have to act on it? If I was married and saw a sexy babe, that wasn’t my wife, and wanted to get busy with her then I have no choice but to do the deed? Right? Just like gays, right? No choice!
Everyone (out of jail) has thoughts and feelings that are not the best actions for themselves or the situation. So we all, to some extent, control our behavior and don’t act on every random thought that comes into out heads. But you want us to believe that gays just don’t have that ability? They are attracted to the same sex and have to act on it?
So what you don’t get is that yes, many gays have become straight IN BEHAVIOR (not thought) and are just fine with it. We all need to control our urges, why should gays be any different? Welcome to the human race bro!
[/quote]
Wel,l after reading this post I have decided that this is among the top 3 worst threads I have ever read here on T-Nation. This thread must die. The opinions posted in this thread are a nasty scar on the site.
I gave up on this tragedy of stereotyping, prejudism and judgmentalism long ago.
The people arguing against gays today are the same ones that would have been happily burning witches.
My solace is…
Tiiiiiime is on my side, yes it is, yes it is.
This era of gay-hating will soon be a historical stain that people will hardly believe was ever possibe. That is generally what happens to unfounded periods of hatred and persecution.
Chalk another one up for organized religions… sigh.