Zeb, I think you missed the part where I showed you that the majority of STRAIGHT people have also tried anal intercourse.
I also think you missed the part about anal sex being safe as long as it is not forced 
[quote]forlife wrote:
Wrong is wrong. And the gay sex act is wrong as it produces disease.
Fine logic. Ergo, the heterosexual act is wrong as it also can produce disease.[/quote]
The heterosexal act produces children!
Wow…what a shock!
And what does the homosexual act produce?
But the hetero act can “produce disease” when people are promiscuous.
Then again anything that is “counterfit” to what nature (what I really mean is God but I didn’t want to offend anyone) intended is usually going to lead to a problem somewhere down the line. Just a matter of time.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I already talked about a woman covering her head. Reread that section of a previous post.
[/quote]
Maybe you missed my response? As I said earlier, the scripture in 1 Corinthians 11 is clearly a commandment, rather than a custom (as you claim). Furthermore, if it was a custom, how can you prove that Paul’s proscription against homosexuality was also not a reflection of Jewish custom?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Why change a 5000+ year old institution for about 1% (gays who want to marry) of the population?
[/quote]
I wasn’t asking you to justify your discrimination. I was just pointing out that you support such discrimination.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The heterosexal act produces children!
Wow…what a shock!
And what does the homosexual act produce?
But the hetero act can “produce disease” when people are promiscuous.
[/quote]
So acts which potentially produce disease are inherently evil, UNLESS those acts can also produce children?
The logic just gets better…
Zeb, we get it: you don’t like fags. Get over it.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I haven’t “defended” this movie. I am defending the right for it to be made. You can disagree with gayness all you want. That’s your right. The issue is acting as if the rest of us are so stupid that we need to be “warned” about the gayness as if it is contagious. I am laughing at some of you…seriously.
It is my theory that certain themes, when applauded by the greater consensus, are sometimes approved of and used as a form of experimentation by a larger percentage of peoples in later generations.
Thousands of years ago being a pedophile in certain regions of the world was accepted as normal behavior. There were no moral repercussions for partaking in the act. There was no shame, no concept of wrongness because society had openly approved of this behavior.
The people in that era who had a craving or a tendency to partake in such an act were influenced to do so because it was socially acceptable. As time went on though (with the tide of religions and warfare), society and the law changed views on the issue and people who possessed this sinful disposition to pedophilia were challenged to repress it or at the very least to avoid experimenting in the act.
Dr. Winfield’s article highlights the Japanese subculture which influences young teenage girls into experimenting with other girls via use of comic books. The walls of discernment for these girls are being torn down brick by brick before they’ve had the chance to study all the facts surrounding such behaviors. The fact that a sector of Japanese society welcomes such propaganda will inevitably lead (in my opinion) to a higher proportion of homosexual experimentation.
Sometimes people engage in experiences they never envisioned they’d enjoy. For instance, a heterosexual girl enticed by friends to have a lesbian encounter. Some geeky guy who joins a gang and beats up his first victim. Some kid turned twenty-one who spent all his years plagued by liver cirrhosis who participates in their first shot-for-shot contest. An academic prodigy who takes their first hit of ecstasy.
Sometimes, experimentation b[/b]leads to addiction and b[/b]ignites traits in someone who otherwise never possessed them.
Ultimately, it’s every individual’s decision and they’ll remain accountable for their spiritual welfare, breaking the law, or damaging their body. The point is (as I believe it) that once society starts to cheer and approve of a certain behavior or theme, future generations will inevitably embrace and engage in this behavior or theme to a magnified degree.
I don’t believe that any mature adult who watches the film will become a homosexual, but I do however believe there’s some type of contagious message which has been spawn upon unsuspecting & undiscerning members of society. You laugh at me for ascribing to this belief while I laugh at you for being so naive in apparently denying that the film has no such effect.
There may be a middle ground between our perspectives, but whether we give an inch or a mile to defiling behaviors or themes is never a righteous cause.[/quote]
So you wrote all of this in defense of censorship? Is that your solution so that the world can be more like you specifically want it to be?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s interesting but not surprising how the Brokeback discussion has broken down on the usual party lines.
Posters like harris, vroom, bunyan and others who are well noted for their liberal bent defend the movie and lash out with the usual hate lines when the subject matter is questiond (not you vroom you never do that).
Those of us who are more conservative disagree.
There is a culture war going on. It’s not nearly as heated as it will eventually be.
But make no mistake about it…it has begun.
Red states vs Blue states.
I haven’t “defended” this movie. I am defending the right for it to be made. You can disagree with gayness all you want. That’s your right. The issue is acting as if the rest of us are so stupid that we need to be “warned” about the gayness as if it is contagious. I am laughing at some of you…seriously.
What makes you even think that any of us (especially me) are talking to you?
I already mentioned to vroom that I am talking to the young guys out there who read this thread.
I know that guys like you and vroom are not going to change your minds based upon what I state.
You are as locked into your opinion as you accuse me of being.
However there is scant little information on the reality of “being gay” available to those folks by the mainstream media.
Brokeback paints an unrealistic picture, and I do agree most movies by nature are not realistic.
[/quote]
Describe this “unrealistic picture”. You know this because you saw the movie?
[quote]Since forlife was a Christian missionary, I’m sure he’s more educated than that. But since you may be unaware vroom, repentance is a life-long struggle & committment to the avoidance of sin and striving to maintain a virtuous life.
The grace of God helps us draw closer to the ritual of genuine wholehearted repentance. If even for a split second you’re relying on this premise for salvation, I pity you![/quote]
Stellar,
Shame on you!
True repentance, not a pretense of it, happens whenever it happens. It is never too late to find God and you should well know that.
It matters not how long we are led astray, as long the lost sheep is eventually brought back to the flock.
Tsk. I’m disappointed.
Why don’t you leave the judging for your Lord as he commands of you to do.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Stellar, I understand your religious motivation and I don’t really blame you for it. I’ve been there.
I realize that religion doesn’t always value happiness and peace. I think that is unfortunate. It can even be tragic, when people are deeply religious and are unable to reconcile their beliefs with the reality of who they are.
[/quote]
Christianity does value happiness and peace. I’m positive that you of all people acknowledge this truth! The difference is that the Christian Faith focuses on the eternal rather than the transient. How can you be a brother in iron and not appreciate this concept? All the hard work you, me, and other T-Nation fans put into shaping our bodies, trying to get stronger, maybe bigger, or even healthier.
According to your frame of thought, we should be pigging out on nachoes, pizza, and donuts all day and relaxing on the couch because maintaining a healthy lifestyle involves sacrificing transient pleasures for some later fulfillment or reward.
As many obese people as I acquaint myself with, I don’t presume I’ll stop giving them nutrition tips or training advice so they can lead healthier lifestyles - even if they refuse to listen or act upon it accordingly. Many of them are also deceived about who they really are.
Peace be with you.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
How can you be a brother in iron and not appreciate this concept? All the hard work you, me, and other T-Nation fans put into shaping our bodies, trying to get stronger, maybe bigger, or even healthier. [/quote]
By their fruits ye shall know them. I pump iron, I eat clean, and I have a nice body to show for it.
The fruits of denying my orientation were pain, depression, and deterioration.
The fruits of embracing who I am are peace, deep happiness, and integrity.
Empty promises by religious fundamentalists are not substantial. When you have something real to show for your promises, I’ll listen. Until then, I’ll do what produces the most positive results in my life.
stellar_horizon wrote:[quote]
If even for a split second you’re relying on this premise for salvation, I pity you!
[/quote]
forlife wrote:[quote]
But what about the thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus, who at the last moment converted and was told that he would go to paradise?
[/quote]
Think about this for a second… As a man who values integrity, would you be comfortable spending a whole life indulging in sin hoping to convert in the last moments of your demise? Not everyone hangs on a cross for hours meditating on their past life. The thief who went to Paradise was endowed with God’s grace. In a pure & humble spirit, He believed in the Savior and acknowledged his sins. The God-fearing Fathers of the Church teach that if this man was freed, he would have been baptized into the Christian Faith.
The other thief, however, mocked Christ even though all three of them were on their “death beds” so-to-speak. Considering the instantaneous ways people die today: bombings, earthquakes, fires, gunshot wounds, crashes, heart attacks, etc., count yourself an optimist if you expect to have hours on your hands before death to meditate on your past life as the thief did. Even so, his final repentance was genuine & pure. As a former missionary, can you honestly say that everytime you repented of sins it was always wholehearted?
I seriously hope you were joking.
Peace be with you.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Maybe you missed my response? As I said earlier, the scripture in 1 Corinthians 11 is clearly a commandment, rather than a custom (as you claim). Furthermore, if it was a custom, how can you prove that Paul’s proscription against homosexuality was also not a reflection of Jewish custom?
[/quote]
I can’t speak for any other Christian organization, but in Orthodox Christianity even today, all women that approach the Holy Eucharist are mandated to wear head garbs. It is a symbol of humility and order. Rebellious as it may be to not wear a head garb in church, the disobedience of doing so represents the female’s spiritual disposition. However, this disposition (though imperfect) does not equate with heavier sins such as sodomy or fornication.
Peace be with you.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Zeb, I think you missed the part where I showed you that the majority of STRAIGHT people have also tried anal intercourse.
[/quote]
I’ve never tried it and never plan to. The act of sodomy (whether upon a male or female) is a severe sin.
Jesus Christ warned that sodomites would not experience the kingdom of God.
Peace be with you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So you wrote all of this in defense of censorship? Is that your solution so that the world can be more like you specifically want it to be?
[/quote]
I never said I wanted the film censored. Perhaps you missed my one, two, or five hundred posts specifying that… I clearly stated from page one or so that I wanted to warn people of the propaganda in Brokeback Mountain and the direction that unsuspecting, undiscerning, sentimental-driven members of society were taking. If you’re still maintaining that this thread was about censorship, you need to jump back on the meds.
And for the record, heaven forbid the world was the way I wanted it to be. I’m a sinner, not a Saint. I have my own temptations and wars to wage.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Stellar,
Shame on you!
True repentance, not a pretense of it, happens whenever it happens. It is never too late to find God and you should well know that.
It matters not how long we are led astray, as long the lost sheep is eventually brought back to the flock.[/quote]
But if the sheep strays into the wolf’s den, all that will be left will be a lifeless carcass of skin & bones. Better to find the sheep sooner rather than later.
I didn’t think you cared about forlife’s spiritual welfare. Nice of you to show compassion.
[quote]
Why don’t you leave the judging for your Lord as he commands of you to do.[/quote]
Because I’m not judging him to say, “Friend, you’re going to the fiery pits of hell where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” I’m saying, “Friend, you know better. Sodomy is a sin and not conducive to positive Christian spirituality. Take heed you do not lose your soul. There’s more to life than transient pleasures and graves of six feet deep we’ll all inevitably encounter.”
I think the movie is stupid and I wouldn’t spend a dollor to see such a…well,gay movie.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
I’m saying, “Friend, you know better. Sodomy is a sin and not conducive to positive Christian spirituality. Take heed you do not lose your soul. There’s more to life than transient pleasures and graves of six feet deep we’ll all inevitably encounter.”
[/quote]
I do know better. I know that christianity is a man-made religion, just like all the other hundreds of religions that have existed over the millenia. The only reason you believe in this particular brand is that you were born into a part of the world where it is prominent. Billions of people believe differently from you, because they were born somewhere else.
In your diatribe against homosexuality, you are no different than the Muslims who are up in arms because of the recent cartoons about Allah.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
So you wrote all of this in defense of censorship? Is that your solution so that the world can be more like you specifically want it to be?
I never said I wanted the film censored. Perhaps you missed my one, two, or five hundred posts specifying that… I clearly stated from page one or so that I wanted to warn people of the propaganda in Brokeback Mountain and the direction that unsuspecting, undiscerning, sentimental-driven members of society were taking. If you’re still maintaining that this thread was about censorship, you need to jump back on the meds.
And for the record, heaven forbid the world was the way I wanted it to be. I’m a sinner, not a Saint. I have my own temptations and wars to wage.[/quote]
You have been asked several times, why do you think anyone is so stupid that they need you to WARN them of a damn movie? This does NOT make sense. You wouldn’t be WARNING anyone of a movie unless you felt that people should not see this movie. If you feel people should not see this movie, you are logically FOR censorship of it. Do you follow now? You can hold whatever opinion you choose, but when you take it upon yourself to act as if you need to warn, stop, prevent, or halt anyone from seeing it, you are FOR censorship of it. You can dance around like this isn’t the case all you want to, but that is simply the way it is. Why is it you don’t even understand this?
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
forlife wrote:
Zeb, I think you missed the part where I showed you that the majority of STRAIGHT people have also tried anal intercourse.
I’ve never tried it and never plan to. The act of sodomy (whether upon a male or female) is a severe sin.
Jesus Christ warned that sodomites would not experience the kingdom of God.
Peace be with you.
[/quote]
I hope for your sanity that you never find out what a strap-on is or why a heterosexual woman would own one…