Britain's BNP: Is It Time?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

Just 20 more seats for the Tories and we would’ve been in business, it was a waste to put those votes to the Lib Dems IMO. The rich are the people that will turn the country round and put it back on its feet - you don’t want to be taxing the hell out of them so that they leave and invest their money elsewhere.

They have the right idea in making people actively seek work and prove they can’t find a job before they are put onto benefits - a good chunk of my monthly salary is paying for the lazy scumbags to sit around and do sweet-fuckall and I’m not ok with that.

102

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Where’s your Nick Griffin now?[/quote]

Voted out by the democratic process:
“1900: The British National Party has seen its representation on Barking and Dagenham Council in east London wiped out, says BBC political correspondent Ross Hawkins. It had been the second biggest party there, but all 12 of its councillors lost their seats. In Epping Forest the party lost three councillors, in Sandwell it lost two, in Leeds one BNP councillor was voted out. At the general election its share rose to 1.9% as it polled over half a million votes. But in Barking the party leader Nick Griffin managed only third place, and saw his share of the vote fall.” BBC News - Election 2010 - Live coverage - General Election 2010

Makkun

103

[quote]Boffin wrote:
[/quote]

There were 1.3 million muslims back in 1997 when Labour came to power. Now the official is over 2.7 million, but noone really knows for sure because they stopped keeping track of how many people were entering the country years ago.

That means their population has more than doubled in a decade. Their birthrate is ten times higher than that of the British. That’s why the number one name for newborn baby boys is Mohammad…

[/quote]

Did a quick search (not rigorous) and found this:
Top 2010 Baby Boy Names
1.Jack
2.Harry
3.Alfie
4.Thomas
5.Oliver
6.Daniel
7.Joshua
8.Charlie
9.Mohammed
10.George
11.Lewis
12.Dylan
13.William
14.Samuel
15.Ethan
16.Ben
17.Alexander

Mohammed appears at No. 9, NOT No.1![/quote]

You are either the worlds dumbest Boffin or you think we are stupid. Mohammad was number two in 2006. It’s ranking then precipetously dropped the next year. The reason why is because of creative accounting. There are 14 spellings of the name Mohammad. ie Muhammad, Mohammad,Mahamad…

The year it reached the number two spot they were counting all spellings as one name. The year it became number one they started counting different spellings seperately so it wouldn’t take the number one spot and wake people up to the fact that they are being out bred.

June 6, 2007

Muhammad is No 2 in boy’s names

Muhammad is now second only to Jack as the most popular name for baby boys in Britain and is likely to rise to No 1 by next year, a study by The Times has found. The name, if all 14 different spellings are included, was shared by 5,991 newborn boys last year, beating Thomas into third place, followed by Joshua and Oliver.

Although the official names register places the spelling Mohammed at No 23, an analysis of the top 3,000 names provided by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) puts Muhammad at No 2 once the 14 spellings are taken into account. If its popularity continues â?? it rose by 12 per cent last year â?? the name will take the top spot by the end of this year. It first entered the Top 30 in 2000.

The spelling Muhammad, like all transliterations, comes from replacing the Arabic script with what is deemed its closest Latin equivalent. There are many versions in Britain, depending on where the family are from and variations in pronounciation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6194354/Mohammed-is-most-popular-name-for-baby-boys-in-London.html

Mohammed is most popular name for baby boys in London
Mohammed is now the most common name for baby boys born in London and three other English regions, official Government figures have shown.

By Rebecca Lefort and Ben Leapman
Published: 5:07PM BST 15 Sep 2009

The Islamic name overtook traditional choices like Jack, Thomas and Daniel to become the number one name in the West Midlands, Yorkshire and the Humber, and the North West, as well as in the capital, in 2008.

The figures emerged in a detailed regional breakdown of figures published last week by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

It is the first time that the Muslim name has been shown to the top choice for parents in any part of the UK. In previous years no regional figures were disclosed, only nationwide totals.

When various spellings of the Islamic prophet are added together - including Muhammad, Mohammad, Mohamed and Muhammed - the name is now more than twice as popular in London as the capital’s second-ranked boys name, Daniel. There were 1,828 baby boys given the name Mohammed, including varients, in 2008, compared with only 844 who were called Daniel.

London is not the first European capital to see Mohammed become the number one name for baby boys. In Brussels, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Oslo the name has already gained the top slot.

The way in which the true figures emerged, days after the official publication, will fuel claims that Government statisticians tried to play down the increasing popularity of the Muslim name. The official announcement by the ONS, which does not take varient spellings into account, states that Mohammed was only the third most popular name in London.

In recent years the ONS has refused to divulge regional lists of popular baby names. It is likely that Mohammed has been the most popular choice in the capital for a number of years already, but it has never been demonstrated conclusively until now.

The last paragraph is interesting. I wonder why they wouldn’t want to let people know it is the most popular name…

104

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Where’s your Nick Griffin now?[/quote]

Voted out by the democratic process:
"1900: The British National Party has seen its representation on Barking and Dagenham Council in east London wiped out, says BBC political correspondent Ross Hawkins. It had been the second biggest party there, but all 12 of its councillors lost their seats.

In Epping Forest the party lost three councillors, in Sandwell it lost two, in Leeds one BNP councillor was voted out. At the general election its share rose to 1.9% as it polled over half a million votes. But in Barking the party leader Nick Griffin managed only third place, and saw his share of the vote fall." BBC News - Election 2010 - Live coverage - General Election 2010

Makkun[/quote]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. It’s a mixed result, you should pay attention to the fact that none of the parties have been resoundingly supported. Labour put a huge effort into winning in Barking.

There most likely will be another election within the next twelve months or even before the end of the year. That council has a couple of months to do significantly better which is doubtful, they will most likely return to business as usual and get voters looking for alternatives.

Mark my words, a lot could happen in the next twelve months that could really galvanize public opinion…

105

All those studies show is that muslims are less creative with their baby names. If white people all called their baby boys Michael then that would be the most popular baby name. As it is, the names of white children are spread out across a vast number of names. It actually tells you very little about population.

Assuming that 80% of muslim baby boys are name Muhammad (or one of its variant spellings), then all that means is that you could take the vast majority of muslim men and their number would be only slightly larger than all of the men named Jack.

How many people called Jack can you name off the top of your head? Newspapers use moral panic stories like this to make uptight white people shit themselves and then buy the paper to “educate” themselves about it.

What a ridiculous argument.

106

Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

107

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Where’s your Nick Griffin now?[/quote]

Voted out by the democratic process:
"1900: The British National Party has seen its representation on Barking and Dagenham Council in east London wiped out, says BBC political correspondent Ross Hawkins. It had been the second biggest party there, but all 12 of its councillors lost their seats.

In Epping Forest the party lost three councillors, in Sandwell it lost two, in Leeds one BNP councillor was voted out. At the general election its share rose to 1.9% as it polled over half a million votes. But in Barking the party leader Nick Griffin managed only third place, and saw his share of the vote fall." BBC News - Election 2010 - Live coverage - General Election 2010

Makkun[/quote]

Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. It’s a mixed result, you should pay attention to the fact that none of the parties have been resoundingly supported. Labour put a huge effort into winning in Barking.

There most likely will be another election within the next twelve months or even before the end of the year. That council has a couple of months to do significantly better which is doubtful, they will most likely return to business as usual and get voters looking for alternatives.

Mark my words, a lot could happen in the next twelve months that could really galvanize public opinion… [/quote]

While I understand that you must be disappointed, and that from your perspective must turn to hope now - you can’t dismiss the fact that they have been massively wiped out at the polls (both national, but especially local). And the main problem they seem to be facing now is - as has often happened with the more radical splinter parties - internal strife:

"[…]The party’s campaign had been beset by problems before today’s results, with several senior figures publicly criticising Griffin in the runup to the poll. This week the BNP’s website was closed and replaced with a posting from Simon Bennett, the party’s website manager, accusing Griffin and James Dowson, the BNP election fundraiser, of being “pathetic, desperate and incompetent”.

Last month the party’s publicity director, Mark Collett, who was considered a Griffin loyalist, was arrested on suspicion of threatening to kill the party leader, and in Stoke, the senior BNP councillor Alby Walker decided to stand as an independent because of a “vein of Holocaust-denying” within the party.

“They’ve still got senior members of the BNP who will be candidates in the general election that have Nazi, Nazi-esque sympathies,” he added.[…]"

Combined with their completely failed Marmite stunt (what were they thinking?), it shows that this organisation doesn’t seem to have the professional skills you need in order to first win and then govern.

It’s not enough to have an ideology in order to sway public opinion - you need the skills base and able, unified people. The BNP hasn’t shown to have either. While I understand that that must be disappointing for you - it gives me a certain sense of security that they will not gain significant power in the mid-term.

Makkun

108

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

You can’t seriously expect integrity from someone who actually likes the BNP right? :stuck_out_tongue:

109

[quote]Jab1 wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

You can’t seriously expect integrity from someone who actually likes the BNP right? :P[/quote]

I always try to see the best in people :slight_smile:

110

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

Cockney how have you been? I wondered when you were going to show up and give me a giggle and here you are with a link. Thanks for that because I was thinking to myself did I make a bet with him, I thought it was some other bloke. I couldn’t remember his name without the link but it was 300andabove who took your bet because I wouldn’t.

111

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

Cockney how have you been? I wondered when you were going to show up and give me a giggle and here you are with a link. Thanks for that because I was thinking to myself did I make a bet with him, I thought it was some other bloke. I couldn’t remember his name without the link but it was 300andabove who took your bet because I wouldn’t. [/quote]

As stated on the other thread, I now realise I misunderstood your post. LOL, if one of the BNP guys had got in I would seriously have sent you $100.

Anyway, haven’t been around here much because work has gone crazy over the last couple of months. What have I missed?

Let me guess. Posts about creation vs evolution. A few posts about why all Muslims are evil. A couple of posts from Muslim sympathisers saying everyone has misunderstood and they really just want to be loved. Some random paranoid nuttiness from Headhunter. A couple of posts about how Sarah Palin is either the devil or the second coming of the Messiah. Some random anti Mexican racism and someone getting a hard on for Glen Beck’s latest rabid rantings.

Am I close?

112

Another fact that should be pointed out about to those of you who want to gloat over the supposed demise of the BNP is all the small parties did poorly in the election. The BNP lost 12 council seats in Barking/ Dagenham but George Galloway’s ultra leftist/muslim REspect party lost 11 of 12 council seats to Labour in the muslim enclave of Tower Hamlets.

The BNP recieved 3 times as many votes as it did in 2005. If the Lib Dems are able to have their way and proportional representation replaces the present first past the post electoral system then there will be BNP MP’s. The BNP is Britain’s fourth party. UNder PR they would have won 12-15 seats in Westminster.

The next time the Scottish and Welsh assemblies hold elections seats will be distributed according to PR rules. So this is far from over…

113

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Link to Sifu taking a $100 bet that a BNP member would get into the house of commons at the election yesterday

Link to Sifu denying taking the bet

Cockney how have you been? I wondered when you were going to show up and give me a giggle and here you are with a link. Thanks for that because I was thinking to myself did I make a bet with him, I thought it was some other bloke. I couldn’t remember his name without the link but it was 300andabove who took your bet because I wouldn’t. [/quote]

As stated on the other thread, I now realise I misunderstood your post. LOL, if one of the BNP guys had got in I would seriously have sent you $100.

Anyway, haven’t been around here much because work has gone crazy over the last couple of months. What have I missed?

Let me guess. Posts about creation vs evolution. A few posts about why all Muslims are evil. A couple of posts from Muslim sympathisers saying everyone has misunderstood and they really just want to be loved. Some random paranoid nuttiness from Headhunter. A couple of posts about how Sarah Palin is either the devil or the second coming of the Messiah. Some random anti Mexican racism and someone getting a hard on for Glen Beck’s latest rabid rantings.

Am I close?[/quote]

yes you are, add in austrian economics vs marxisme and thats it. hehe

114

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Another fact that should be pointed out about to those of you who want to gloat over the supposed demise of the BNP is all the small parties did poorly in the election. The BNP lost 12 council seats in Barking/ Dagenham but George Galloway’s ultra leftist/muslim REspect party lost 11 of 12 council seats to Labour in the muslim enclave of Tower Hamlets.

The BNP recieved 3 times as many votes as it did in 2005. If the Lib Dems are able to have their way and proportional representation replaces the present first past the post electoral system then there will be BNP MP’s. The BNP is Britain’s fourth party. UNder PR they would have won 12-15 seats in Westminster.

The next time the Scottish and Welsh assemblies hold elections seats will be distributed according to PR rules. So this is far from over…[/quote]

Not if they apply a 5% hurdle, which is a tenet of a working (non-Italian style) PR system. And even then - you still need professionally skilled, effective and disciplined activists. The BNP hasn’t achieved that yet, as was nicely demonstrated by their internal struggles in the last few weeks before the election.

Makkun

115

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Another fact that should be pointed out about to those of you who want to gloat over the supposed demise of the BNP is all the small parties did poorly in the election. The BNP lost 12 council seats in Barking/ Dagenham but George Galloway’s ultra leftist/muslim REspect party lost 11 of 12 council seats to Labour in the muslim enclave of Tower Hamlets.

The BNP recieved 3 times as many votes as it did in 2005. If the Lib Dems are able to have their way and proportional representation replaces the present first past the post electoral system then there will be BNP MP’s. The BNP is Britain’s fourth party. UNder PR they would have won 12-15 seats in Westminster.

The next time the Scottish and Welsh assemblies hold elections seats will be distributed according to PR rules. So this is far from over…[/quote]

Not if they apply a 5% hurdle, which is a tenet of a working (non-Italian style) PR system. And even then - you still need professionally skilled, effective and disciplined activists. The BNP hasn’t achieved that yet, as was nicely demonstrated by their internal struggles in the last few weeks before the election.

Makkun[/quote]

The BNP polled over 5% in several constituencies. Don’t underestimate the BNP. The reason why the release onto the internet of the BNP membership list backfired is because it disproved the myth that BNP members were just uneducated working class idiots. They have people who are educated professionals who are quite competant. The stories of internal struggles were part of a media smeer campaign.

Something that you are missing is one of this thread’s critics of the BNP said they would vote for the Lib Dems because they would bring in electoral reform (proportioanl representation). Proportional representation is a stupid, undemocratic idea. So it shows the intelligence level of critics of the BNP. They don’t want the BNP to get power but they support the party whose policies will give the BNP power.

The present situation with a hung parliament shows what is wrong with PR. The Lib Dems lost seats. They had their manifesto goal of PR soundly rejected by the electorate. Yet because they are now in the position to play king maker they are able to make PR a condition for their support.

This is the problem with PR. It gives lunatic fringe parties, influence that is totally out of proportion to their actual level of support so you end up with laws and policies that the mainstream of voters do not want.

116

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The BNP polled over 5% in several constituencies. Don’t underestimate the BNP. The reason why the release onto the internet of the BNP membership list backfired is because it disproved the myth that BNP members were just uneducated working class idiots. They have people who are educated professionals who are quite competant. The stories of internal struggles were part of a media smeer campaign.

Something that you are missing is one of this thread’s critics of the BNP said they would vote for the Lib Dems because they would bring in electoral reform (proportioanl representation). Proportional representation is a stupid, undemocratic idea. So it shows the intelligence level of critics of the BNP. They don’t want the BNP to get power but they support the party whose policies will give the BNP power.

The present situation with a hung parliament shows what is wrong with PR. The Lib Dems lost seats. They had their manifesto goal of PR soundly rejected by the electorate. Yet because they are now in the position to play king maker they are able to make PR a condition for their support.

This is the problem with PR. It gives lunatic fringe parties, influence that is totally out of proportion to their actual level of support so you end up with laws and policies that the mainstream of voters do not want.
[/quote]

Eventually the Middle Classes, those who have moral values, will see how the major parties are eroding all the values they hold dear: honesty, integrity, justice, faith. They will see that the major parties are willing TO DESTROY THE NATION in their mad scramble for power.

When those people turn, they will tear those major parties to pieces. Those parties will (and should) be properly placed in the dustbin of history.

117

you wanna see a hung parliament huh chaps? i got your hung parliament right here…

oh my i say!

118

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The BNP polled over 5% in several constituencies. Don’t underestimate the BNP. The reason why the release onto the internet of the BNP membership list backfired is because it disproved the myth that BNP members were just uneducated working class idiots. They have people who are educated professionals who are quite competant. The stories of internal struggles were part of a media smeer campaign.

Something that you are missing is one of this thread’s critics of the BNP said they would vote for the Lib Dems because they would bring in electoral reform (proportioanl representation). Proportional representation is a stupid, undemocratic idea. So it shows the intelligence level of critics of the BNP. They don’t want the BNP to get power but they support the party whose policies will give the BNP power.

The present situation with a hung parliament shows what is wrong with PR. The Lib Dems lost seats. They had their manifesto goal of PR soundly rejected by the electorate. Yet because they are now in the position to play king maker they are able to make PR a condition for their support.

This is the problem with PR. It gives lunatic fringe parties, influence that is totally out of proportion to their actual level of support so you end up with laws and policies that the mainstream of voters do not want.
[/quote]

Eventually the Middle Classes, those who have moral values, will see how the major parties are eroding all the values they hold dear: honesty, integrity, justice, faith. They will see that the major parties are willing TO DESTROY THE NATION in their mad scramble for power.

When those people turn, they will tear those major parties to pieces. Those parties will (and should) be properly placed in the dustbin of history.
[/quote]

The essential fact that you are missing is the English middle class is being decimated. The kids are being dumbed down, denied higher education. While those who do have higher education are being thrown into competition with low wage immigrants. The parents are emigrating in droves and being replaced by immigrants who have no ties to the land and are happy to be in a fucked up country just as long as they can make more money than they could back home.

The people are rapidly sleep walking into their own destruction. Just look at all the posts arguing with me. People are in denial about what is happening.

Edit: Something else I forgot to mention is the confiscationary taxes that make it hard to get ahead. Also there is the forty percent death tax which limits the transfer of intergenerational wealth so the kids can’t maintain the same economic status as their parents.

119

[quote]Sifu wrote:
[…]

The BNP polled over 5% in several constituencies. Don’t underestimate the BNP. The reason why the release onto the internet of the BNP membership list backfired is because it disproved the myth that BNP members were just uneducated working class idiots. They have people who are educated professionals who are quite competant. The stories of internal struggles were part of a media smeer campaign.

Something that you are missing is one of this thread’s critics of the BNP said they would vote for the Lib Dems because they would bring in electoral reform (proportioanl representation). Proportional representation is a stupid, undemocratic idea. So it shows the intelligence level of critics of the BNP. They don’t want the BNP to get power but they support the party whose policies will give the BNP power.

The present situation with a hung parliament shows what is wrong with PR. The Lib Dems lost seats. They had their manifesto goal of PR soundly rejected by the electorate. Yet because they are now in the position to play king maker they are able to make PR a condition for their support.

This is the problem with PR. It gives lunatic fringe parties, influence that is totally out of proportion to their actual level of support so you end up with laws and policies that the mainstream of voters do not want. [/quote]

I think you are overesetimating them. The BNP took 1.9% overall (which is indeed up by 1.2%) - and under what I’ve described they would have to more than double. Under a 5% hurdle, they would have to mobilise far more votes. Under the current system, not a chance - and that showed. And 5% in single constituencies doesn’t really count for much under the current system.

Good luck otherwise, and this is the part you haven’t addressed at all - I’ve seen lunatic fringe parties in Germany (PR with 5% hurdle) like them rise and fall for 20 years, and so far they never failed to filter themselves out by … incompetence when they actually get somewhere.

Wrt a smear campaign - what part of what I said was one:
Did the BNP run a Marmite spot? Yes, they did:BBC News - BNP facing Marmite legal action This one should be funny if they get really sued by Unilever.
Did their communications director get arrested for a murder threat? Yes, he did: BNP official Mark Collett questioned over alleged threat to kill Nick Griffin | BNP | The Guardian Don’t miss the police statement talking about the ‘suspicion of making threats to kill’ by the police.
Was their page changed shortly before the election by their own webmaster? Yes, it was: http://www.vote-no-to-bnp.org.uk/2010/05/bnp-website-designer-takes-the-website-offline-after-dispute.html#Ph2jzm1273617157304 Screenshots and all.
Did one of their candidates leave and change to become an independent, making comments on the party’s views on the holocaust? Yes, he did: BBC News - Former Stoke-on-Trent BNP man criticises party Read the comment he makes about the ‘vein of holocaust denial’ in the party.

And this is why the party as it is, is not going anywhere really. Because politically, they are a bunch of amateurs. It’s fun watching them fail, as it reduces the menace of Nick Griffin to the equivalent of Chaplin’s great dictator - but even though I find their views mostly objectionable, they are simply not a real threat beyond some neighbourhoods.

Makkun

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