Bringing Back Good Posters/Debates

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

Since I am part of a theoretical “old guard”, having been posting on PWI since 2003, I’d say there is a definite loss in quality and interest in PWI. A few points:

  1. To Gambit’s point, every thread gets hijacked into fight over the philosophical validity and unsolicited defense of libertarianism, it seems. It’s dull. Very dull. Used to be, practical politics were discussed by people of many different viewpoints who had lots of knowledge on real world policy. Now, you raise a point about whether the Fed’s QE2 program is bad or good, and the thread gets derailed into why we should privatize the air we breathe.

It’s almost childlike with some posters - an incessant need to constantly divert whatever topic people are discussing into a diversion into some “new” idea they happen to pick up and desperately want to show how “cool” it is.

This inability to discuss practical politics - real elections, real policies, real intersection with society - has run people off. Around election time, discussions should be getting more lively and interesting - instead, I’d bet that when a thread is started about Obama’s re-election chances, inevitably it will turn into a discussion about none of that.

  1. Another part of PWI’s decline (like many online boards) is the protection afforded by internet anonymity. People say the most ridiculous things - things they would never say in person - and this encourages people to talk a lot of useless junk and engage in lots of useless sarcasm. That derails conversations alot, and it used to occur a lot less.

  2. Discussions about religion have “jumped the shark”. It’s not that they aren’t occasionally interesting, but the single-minded obsession to keep these threads going (and start new ones) has become tiresome. Just my opinion, but I think it stagnates PWI.

  3. The presence of too many “one trick ponies” - this dovetails a little bit with #1, but used to be the old posters seemed to know a lot more about a lot more things. Now, there seem to be a collection of one-issue crusaders. That makes for not only less interesting conversations, but a less diverse crowd of conversationalists.

Granted, some of this just sounds like griping about the good ole days. Perhaps so. But, I’ll say this - PWI used to be a more fun place to debate politics. How to fix it? No idea. I don’t think a “more polite” tone is required - we just need the presence of more reasonable viewpoints represented here with more knowledge and exchanges about real world politics.

22

I had my share of good debates in here, but lately its been kinda dull. Its just to many atheist vs christianity debates and abortion or gay marriage debates. Its more interresting subjects out there and some are never discussed, like world wide hunger, the ephidemic of drugs in western societys, poverty and its causes in the rich western societys. It could be interresting to discuss this in a more pragmatic sense sometime.

This will not likely change because of the makeup of this forum. Most here are conservatives or libertarian and
they often gang up on dissenters, just take ryan as an example. People stood in line to insult that guy. I know
many disagreed with him fundamentally, but it doesnt excuse the treatment he got.

If people want better debates, they should welcome different opinons. Because without pluralism it boils
down to a boring circle jerk about how the government is evil or similar.

23

I started to lose interest around the time that the powers that be convinced Bill Roberts to stop posting in PWI. Not that I was a bill groupie, but he did seem to make everyone else step up there game. Whether you agreed with him or not you could not accuse him of phoning it in.

The other thing that he had going for him was that it seemed he had infinite “jack off” time on his hands. Fucker damn sure didn’t work a nine to five. Whether it was three in the afternoon or midnight, some college kid fresh out of poly sci start regurgitating non sense and bill was there to smack that shit back in his face. After he left there seemed to be an influx of irritating little fuckers. Within weeks it seemed that most of the power hitters, left and right, had drifted away.

He was probably due a break though. He seemed to be going a little off the reservation over a seemingly minor issue in his last thread. Either way, I think the board was better with him.

24

[quote]JEATON wrote:
I started to lose interest around the time that the powers that be convinced Bill Roberts to stop posting in PWI.[/quote]

If I recall correctly Bill elected to not post in PWI of his own volition, more to do with a certain poster using the same tired ad hominem attack they always use.

25

Maybe people realize after awhile that the Internet can be a huge waste of time and don’t feel like bothering with it? It’s not like it really matters .

Check out any board where people talk about stuff of any sort . It’s all the same .

As opposed to real life where your words might have consequence and meaning .

26

[quote]tom63 wrote:
As opposed to real life where your words might have consequence and meaning .[/quote]

You mean words on a message board don’t win elections?

27

[quote]florelius wrote:
I had my share of good debates in here, but lately its been kinda dull. Its just to many atheist vs christianity debates and abortion or gay marriage debates. Its more interresting subjects out there and some are never discussed, like world wide hunger, the ephidemic of drugs in western societys, poverty and its causes in the rich western societys. It could be interresting to discuss this in a more pragmatic sense sometime.

This will not likely change because of the makeup of this forum. Most here are conservatives or libertarian and
they often gang up on dissenters, just take ryan as an example. People stood in line to insult that guy. I know
many disagreed with him fundamentally, but it doesnt excuse the treatment he got.

If people want better debates, they should welcome different opinons. Because without pluralism it boils
down to a boring circle jerk about how the government is evil or similar.

[/quote]

I personally do not know but , I think many times Ryan was playing Devil’s Advocate

28

On second thought…if there were some that I wish would leave it would be the condescending posters.

29

[quote]florelius wrote:
I had my share of good debates in here, but lately its been kinda dull. Its just to many atheist vs christianity debates and abortion or gay marriage debates. Its more interresting subjects out there and some are never discussed, like world wide hunger, the ephidemic of drugs in western societys, poverty and its causes in the rich western societys. It could be interresting to discuss this in a more pragmatic sense sometime.

This will not likely change because of the makeup of this forum. Most here are conservatives or libertarian and
they often gang up on dissenters, just take ryan as an example. People stood in line to insult that guy. I know
many disagreed with him fundamentally, but it doesnt excuse the treatment he got.

If people want better debates, they should welcome different opinons. Because without pluralism it boils
down to a boring circle jerk about how the government is evil or similar.

[/quote]

Yup. Back in the day, there were just as many liberals as there were conservatives - the Prof, Vroom, BigRagoo, etc. balanced out the Zebs, Rainjacks, etc.

I don’t bother in here because I’m not going to be the ONLY liberal fighting with 20 conservatives. I don’t have the time to play gotcha with everyone who frequents this forum, and that’s all that they want to happen.

Watching Zeb argue for 100 pages, again and again and again, over something so subjective like whether gay marriage should be allowed or how homosexuality is wrong, really convinced me that this forum is no longer about politics as it is just having the last word and calling it a victory. There’s a reason why I call this place the GOP Blowjob Barn- if you’re liberal, you’ve got to fight with everyone. It loses its appeal quickly.

Also, as thunder said, it seems like all 10 libertarians in the country frequent this country, and every thread devolves into whether or not ron paul could be president, or the fed should be abolished, or some other ridiculous bullshit that’s NEVER going to happen.

The more reasonable of the posters, guys like Thunder, are gone, and have been replaced by right wing batshit extremists that aren’t on the other side of the aisle, they’re on the other side of logic.

We used to have fantastic debates here between Democrats and Republicans. Now, there’s some slight, broken debate between Republicans and wingnuts, and the threads just gimp along.

It’s a shame.

Pretty much when Rainjack and Lixy left, this place lost all its appeal. I loved arguing with that hillbilly fuck, he was a good guy.

30

This quote from another thread is the perfect example of why there’s no good debate. Anyone with a half a brain sees this and leaves immediately.

31

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

This post from another thread is a perfect example of why there’s no good debate, and anyone with half a brain leaves immediately.[/quote]

There are a lot of mis-characterizations in your post. You are doing exactly what you are claiming to be mad at.

32

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

This post from another thread is a perfect example of why there’s no good debate, and anyone with half a brain leaves immediately.[/quote]

There are a lot of mis-characterizations in your post. You are doing exactly what you are claiming to be mad at.[/quote]

No there isn’t. There’s no other liberals here, and one person trying to argue with 20 is both time consuming and frustrating.

Couple that with folks like zeb or others who will simply post nonsensical things just to have the last post, and libertarians who think some idea of theirs is going to actually come to fruition, and you have a forum that fills with children.

When I read this forum, I find myself agreeing with Thunder most often because he’s the only one that isn’t off in the clouds somewhere or getting his answers from a magic book.

That is FRIGHTENING.

33

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I had my share of good debates in here, but lately its been kinda dull. Its just to many atheist vs christianity debates and abortion or gay marriage debates. Its more interresting subjects out there and some are never discussed, like world wide hunger, the ephidemic of drugs in western societys, poverty and its causes in the rich western societys. It could be interresting to discuss this in a more pragmatic sense sometime.

This will not likely change because of the makeup of this forum. Most here are conservatives or libertarian and
they often gang up on dissenters, just take ryan as an example. People stood in line to insult that guy. I know
many disagreed with him fundamentally, but it doesnt excuse the treatment he got.

If people want better debates, they should welcome different opinons. Because without pluralism it boils
down to a boring circle jerk about how the government is evil or similar.

[/quote]

Yup. Back in the day, there were just as many liberals as there were conservatives - the Prof, Vroom, BigRagoo, etc. balanced out the Zebs, Rainjacks, etc.

I don’t bother in here because I’m not going to be the ONLY liberal fighting with 20 conservatives. I don’t have the time to play gotcha with everyone who frequents this forum, and that’s all that they want to happen.

[/quote]
You do the same thing

Which is exactly what the people arguing against him were doing, but you singled him out why?

As far as I know, there aren’t many GOPers even here, certainly not the vocal ones.

Both sides/posters do this with their own pet issue(s)

Thunder is still here, extremism is relative, and being illogical should make them easy targets, but we both know that isn’t the case.

That I agree with.

34

I believe the name calling and ad hominem attacks takes away from what a knowledgeable post could be. It shows excessive emotional attachment to the issue at hand which is the prelude to bias of information as opposed to a constructive discussion.

People do tend to talk too much instead of listening on issues they are not as informed about. I post in a fraction of what i actually read.

That being said… I can say for me personally I have learned alot here (once you sift through the bullshit that is). There have been websites linked, books referenced or just plain knowledge on issues that I went and explored further on my own without previous knowledge.

35 
  My take is that there never has been a golden time here, some posters like Vroom and Boston Barrister are missed others went batshit and imploded. I have learnt a lot here, i do not post a lot as i am not a verbal guy but do enjoy reading the posts whether they were from the start of this board or now. 
  I have no problem with Zeb, he's call it as he see's it and  i enjoy reading his posts.
36

I’ll be the first to admit that even tho I disagree’d with Lixy on just about everything, he was fun to have debates with.

PWI, while it has improved in some aspects really has lost the Liberal’s. I will be the first to say that I wrongly associated everyone who was liberal with Ryan and treated them all as such. For that I apologize and I believe I have changed my attitude.

37

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

This post from another thread is a perfect example of why there’s no good debate, and anyone with half a brain leaves immediately.[/quote]

There are a lot of mis-characterizations in your post. You are doing exactly what you are claiming to be mad at.[/quote]

No there isn’t. There’s no other liberals here, and one person trying to argue with 20 is both time consuming and frustrating.

Couple that with folks like zeb or others who will simply post nonsensical things just to have the last post, and libertarians who think some idea of theirs is going to actually come to fruition, and you have a forum that fills with children.

When I read this forum, I find myself agreeing with Thunder most often because he’s the only one that isn’t off in the clouds somewhere or getting his answers from a magic book.

That is FRIGHTENING. [/quote]

I agree , if you make a statement each of the so called Conservatives will take a word and ague that word, it has nothing to do with debate with some , it is all about must win

38

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I had my share of good debates in here, but lately its been kinda dull. Its just to many atheist vs christianity debates and abortion or gay marriage debates. Its more interresting subjects out there and some are never discussed, like world wide hunger, the ephidemic of drugs in western societys, poverty and its causes in the rich western societys. It could be interresting to discuss this in a more pragmatic sense sometime.

This will not likely change because of the makeup of this forum. Most here are conservatives or libertarian and
they often gang up on dissenters, just take ryan as an example. People stood in line to insult that guy. I know
many disagreed with him fundamentally, but it doesnt excuse the treatment he got.

If people want better debates, they should welcome different opinons. Because without pluralism it boils
down to a boring circle jerk about how the government is evil or similar.

[/quote]

Yup. Back in the day, there were just as many liberals as there were conservatives - the Prof, Vroom, BigRagoo, etc. balanced out the Zebs, Rainjacks, etc.

I don’t bother in here because I’m not going to be the ONLY liberal fighting with 20 conservatives. I don’t have the time to play gotcha with everyone who frequents this forum, and that’s all that they want to happen.

[/quote]
You do the same thing

Which is exactly what the people arguing against him were doing, but you singled him out why?

As far as I know, there aren’t many GOPers even here, certainly not the vocal ones.

Both sides/posters do this with their own pet issue(s)

Thunder is still here, extremism is relative, and being illogical should make them easy targets, but we both know that isn’t the case.

That I agree with.[/quote]

And it’s exactly this line by line “refute” to an OPINION that is why nobody fuckin comes here anymore.

I wasn’t asking for your input on what I thought drove this forum down- I was stating my own and being done with it.

39

Heh. I’m amused with how this thread turned out, considering Gambit’s intent.

40

This thread seems to have sparked a little debate, of that I am glad.

One thing that I find surprising is that there seems to be avid proponents of name-calling and derogatory speech. To me, this is particularly surprising coming from posters who want others to come back. I think it’s one thing for two guys (let’s say Rainjack and Fighting Irish) to argue back and forth with vitriol as they know (knew?) each other and enjoyed such conversations. It’s another entirely when new or sometimes posters are “attacked” by 3 or 4 different posters who mostly just throw insults.

Perhaps there is a connection between negative speech and people leaving? Could we “tone it down” for newcomers or limit the personal attacks to people we know enjoy such things?