BR 2 On/4 Off Cycle

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]juice20jd wrote:

[quote]SergeRedding wrote:

[quote]juice20jd wrote:

[quote]SergeRedding wrote:
Hey guys, me again.

I appreciate all the help I got; my first cycle experience was great! Libido and strength through the roof.

The cycle I intend to try after my 4 week period is up is:

2 weeks on:

Test Prop 1g a week (300-300-300-100)
Anavar (not ideal, but what I can get my hands on atm) 100mg ED
Arimidex .5mg ED (what I found works for me to keep puffy nips at bay)

Then,

PCT (2 weeks):

Nolva 20mg for 2 weeks, and then

2 more weeks off not taking anything before another 2 weeks on.

I know this is still rather uncomplicated and bare bones. Could I get someone to quickly verify if this is good?

Thanks in advance! I appreciate the help.[/quote]

It looks fine. One thing you may want to change is your inject protocol. From what I’m reading it looks like you’d be pinning mon-wed-fri-sun. Consider just switching to ED shots (125-150mg ED). It’s only two weeks worth of pins, and you can easily rotate sites. The var is okay in shorties, it is better stacked with 2-3 other compounds IME, but at 100 mg ED it should be fine for you with the prop. I know you said 0.5 mg adex ED is what you found you needed last short cycle, but remember you were using dbol as well. I would think 0.25 mg ED would be enough for this go around.[/quote]

I appreciate it. I tried to do daily injections in my last cycle, but it was uncomfortable physically as my virgin muscles would get sore the next day and I found it mentally draining as well. Is it really worth pinning everyday?

Also your advice on the adex is well taken. I’ll start with .25 mg ED and just adjust from there if necessary.

Thanks!
[/quote]

More frequent injects generally promote better stability. With prop EOD is acceptable, but I was thinking more along the lines of volume when suggesting ED shots.

I’d rather pin 1.25 ml ED rotating between 6 sites; glutes, quads and delts (or whatever you choose), over smashing 3ml’s every other day between less sites. Less volume might help with the discomfort you experienced. [/quote]

Good plan. Now that I’ve got some injects under my belt, I should now notice a difference between high and low volume pins. I’ll give the ED shots a go this time around. Thanks for keeping me straight with the solid advice. It’s much appreciated.

22

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]SergeRedding wrote:
I wanted to go with 2on 4off so I could settle into a consistent routine instead of having to pay more attention to programming and ancillary compounds. I’ve made good gains without gear, and I don’t plan to compete in powerlifting ever, so I’m fine with really slow gains. Granted, I will probably end up having to take an extra 4-8 week period off every once in a while to cover all my recovering bases (Or so I think? I may be wrong about this), as an indefinite steroidal routine, no matter how mild, still makes me nervous.[/quote]
Makes perfect sense to me.

While T3 is not what I’d ever use normally, a very small dose for the 2 weeks “on” might even add more muscles according to BushidoBadBoy.

And you can add peptides in the 4 weeks off to keep more of the gains.

I hope you keep us posted.

[/quote]

Will do.

I’ll research T3 and peptides (I don’t know what either of those are atm - embarrassing, I know), and look into adding them into the mix. Thanks for the advice.

23

What amount of gains in lbs can one expect to make from a strong 2 week cycle of 2 a day work outs and perfect diet ? 5-10lbs ? and then once the test has left your system how much of these 5-10lbs can you keep if you are lifting consistently and have a strong diet all year ?

cheers

24

For someone who has never used anabolic steroids and their training situation has them primed for excellent training during those two weeks, and with sufficient eating as well, 20 lb of scale weight is quite possible, with 10 lb retained post cycle.

25

Bill, as you have a lot of experience in these shorties, both for yourself and for other trainees, do you still recommend them, or after all is said and done, you discovered longer cycles are better overall when compared over a 6+ month period?

And is a 2 week blast followed by 4 weeks at TRT levels a good long term option?

Thanks

26

It really depends on the individual situation and preferences, and even for the same person it will vary.

In particular, sometimes a given day or time period is especially important, because of an athletic event or wanting to peak for a summer vacation trip or any other such reason that causes appearance or physical ability to more important at a given time than it usually is.

When that’s the case, peaking with a cycle such as 8 weeks or even longer is preferable.

When there is no real difference between one time point and another, then there’s a lot to be said for never being “off” for a long period of time, and there’s also a lot to be said for planning training around very intensive short periods. It’s hard or actually probably impossible to maintain peak intensity for, say, 8 weeks straight. With the 2 week cycles, ordinarily it’s possible to really have the training at peak levels.

It is rare for anyone to choose to do only the 2 week cycles. Having 8 week cycles in the mix (or sometimes longer) is typical and usually makes sense.

On using TRT levels in the off weeks, this makes sense if having given up on natural testosterone production, but otherwise not.

27

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It is rare for anyone to choose to do only the 2 week cycles. Having 8 week cycles in the mix (or sometimes longer) is typical and usually makes sense.

On using TRT levels in the off weeks, this makes sense if having given up on natural testosterone production, but otherwise not.[/quote]
Makes sense, thanks. I had come to the same conclusion. At one time, I was really interested in the 2 weeks on/ 4 off approach, as I figured over a year or so, the results would be similar to having done 2-3 long cycles, but with less possible health side effects, and with more steady gains over the year. The lack of popularity of these short cycles, and how good we feel on longer cycles pretty dimmed my interest for the shorties… till I saw this thread.

I’m not on HRT yet, and frankly, while I won’t lie and I would enjoy the constant boost, being on a drug protocol forever doesn’t sit well with me. I wonder though how beneficial it could be for guys on HRT to add a 2 week boost here and there.

And I wonder if it’s a good idea for me to do a 4-5 month pattern of blast and cruise, with the cruises being only a TRT level, and some of the blasts being shorties. Would I recuperate better after all that, or being shut down for 4-5 months is being shut down, regardless of how it’s done?

28

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It is rare for anyone to choose to do only the 2 week cycles. Having 8 week cycles in the mix (or sometimes longer) is typical and usually makes sense.

On using TRT levels in the off weeks, this makes sense if having given up on natural testosterone production, but otherwise not.[/quote]
Makes sense, thanks. I had come to the same conclusion. At one time, I was really interested in the 2 weeks on/ 4 off approach, as I figured over a year or so, the results would be similar to having done 2-3 long cycles, but with less possible health side effects, and with more steady gains over the year. The lack of popularity of these short cycles, and how good we feel on longer cycles pretty dimmed my interest for the shorties… till I saw this thread.

I’m not on HRT yet, and frankly, while I won’t lie and I would enjoy the constant boost, being on a drug protocol forever doesn’t sit well with me. I wonder though how beneficial it could be for guys on HRT to add a 2 week boost here and there.

And I wonder if it’s a good idea for me to do a 4-5 month pattern of blast and cruise, with the cruises being only a TRT level, and some of the blasts being shorties. Would I recuperate better after all that, or being shut down for 4-5 months is being shut down, regardless of how it’s done?[/quote]

HRT shuts you down.

29

Yes but there are different levels of shutdown. “Tren” shutdown for example is worse than for most other roids. Or it could said we’re shutdown, but it’s easier to come back from certain types of cycles than others. It’s not just and “on and off” switch.

30

forgive my ignorance in advance. shutdown seems to be a gray area to me. ive yet to cycle, but just for the sake of understanding… i see newbs propose very low dose test cycles and get “flamed,” for lack of a better term, because they are shutting themselves down for such a low dose. Is it also dose dependent…i mean in a given two week period would 250 mg of test suppress you just the same as 1000 mg? I know length of time “on” is a determining factor, but my limited understanding was that after a given dose suppression is just the same, like say after 200 mg of test or whatever the shutdown switch has been turned… so after this point, one may as well run the highest dose where which the sides are manageable. In a two week period, would 500 mg of test be easier to recover from than 1000, assuming all of the proper ancillaries were utilized?

31

Im not saying that my first cycle would be 1000, the question is just to clarify my understanding.

32

And if the compound used is such a factor, would a low dose of say tren shut you down and be harder to recover from than a very high dose of test?

33

No, I think that slower recovery sometimes reported when trenbolone is used comes at least mostly from trenbolone enanthate being used, which has to clear down to – as a personal estimate – the 35 mg/week level ir not greatly more before recovery will start. So this would explain why if using for example 600 mg/week, not even counting effect of other remaining steroids in the system, recovery doesn’t even start till at least 3 weeks since the last trenbolone injection, or even more.

Another factor can sometimes be that I strongly suspect some UGL products are adulterated with Deca, as a cost-saving measure (trenbolone is more-expensive raw material.) Perhaps they do this on a “it’s still a 19-nor so who will now if half of it is Deca?” theory. Llewellyn did lab tests of a number of “trenbolone” products a few years back and the percent that was legit was pretty sad. The reporting was only of how much trenbolone was in them, if any, rather than identifying other steroids added, though (unfortunately, as that would have been good information, but he’s owed thanks for doing the tests in the first place rather than deserving criticism for not spending even more money!)

When trenbolone acetate is used from Fina, there aren’t recovery problems different than when other steroids are used, in my experience. And the same is true with trenbolone enanthate made from powder, once taking into account the potency (in terms of both suppressive effect and anabolic effect, it seems it should be counted at about 3x the potency of testosterone.)

34

I was keen on the idea of a short cycle so many of you know I completed one just a while back (2 weeks ago).
I can say that although the gains were impressive, the shorties still shut you down a fair bit. I am 2 weeks post cycle now (10 days of 100mg test p ED and 100mg Dbol ED) and I am still shut down.
Testicular atrophy, low libido and low energy still existant.

I’ve been on Nolva and Clomid, also hit a couple of 1000iu shots of hCG to no avail. So for people with harsh shut down like me, I still dont think these cycles are the best. I think no cycles are the best cycles for people like me, but thats just me.

SB

35

Sorry to shit in the OP’s thread, but this is related.
Heres the situation, I ran a 2-week cycle of 700mg Test p and 100mg Dbol a day.
Very good gains made, no bodyfat gain no water gain, around 4kg of muscle.

I did a PCT of 2 weeks, 2000iu shots of hCG EOD (I shut down very harshly from any AAS) alongside 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ED.
I started getting joint pain so I dropped the SERM’s for a couple of days to see what happens.

Now I am due to fly out on holiday in 2 weeks and I will be gone for some time (7 weeks). I cannot take any drugs with me and I also have some exams in the next 2 weeks crucial for my medical degree.
Any suggestions on what to do?

Any idea what has happened? HPTA being suppressed by the high levels of E from the hCG blasts? Testicles non-responsive?
I am feeling lethargic which is impacting my revision and also libido is not so good, no ED but no drive.

I posted this another board also which was full of smart-ass wannabe’s but nobody suggested what to do. One ‘vet’ suggest I inject 4ml of Sust before I go and deal with it when I get back lol.

SB

36

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Sorry to shit in the OP’s thread, but this is related.
Heres the situation, I ran a 2-week cycle of 700mg Test p and 100mg Dbol a day.
Very good gains made, no bodyfat gain no water gain, around 4kg of muscle.

I did a PCT of 2 weeks, 2000iu shots of hCG EOD (I shut down very harshly from any AAS) alongside 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ED.
I started getting joint pain so I dropped the SERM’s for a couple of days to see what happens.

Now I am due to fly out on holiday in 2 weeks and I will be gone for some time (7 weeks). I cannot take any drugs with me and I also have some exams in the next 2 weeks crucial for my medical degree.
Any suggestions on what to do?

Any idea what has happened? HPTA being suppressed by the high levels of E from the hCG blasts? Testicles non-responsive?
I am feeling lethargic which is impacting my revision and also libido is not so good, no ED but no drive.

I posted this another board also which was full of smart-ass wannabe’s but nobody suggested what to do. One ‘vet’ suggest I inject 4ml of Sust before I go and deal with it when I get back lol.

SB[/quote]

No idea without bloodwork. My feeling is you didn’t have enough time off from the last cycle. Its a tough one with exams to do. You’re going the states right? You could buy research chems while you’re out there I would imagine to continue your PCT. You should be able to take prescription drugs with you but I have no idea. Anyone care to chime in?

37

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Sorry to shit in the OP’s thread, but this is related.
Heres the situation, I ran a 2-week cycle of 700mg Test p and 100mg Dbol a day.
Very good gains made, no bodyfat gain no water gain, around 4kg of muscle.

I did a PCT of 2 weeks, 2000iu shots of hCG EOD (I shut down very harshly from any AAS) alongside 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ED.
I started getting joint pain so I dropped the SERM’s for a couple of days to see what happens.

Now I am due to fly out on holiday in 2 weeks and I will be gone for some time (7 weeks). I cannot take any drugs with me and I also have some exams in the next 2 weeks crucial for my medical degree.
Any suggestions on what to do?

Any idea what has happened? HPTA being suppressed by the high levels of E from the hCG blasts? Testicles non-responsive?
I am feeling lethargic which is impacting my revision and also libido is not so good, no ED but no drive.

I posted this another board also which was full of smart-ass wannabe’s but nobody suggested what to do. One ‘vet’ suggest I inject 4ml of Sust before I go and deal with it when I get back lol.

SB[/quote]

No idea without bloodwork. My feeling is you didn’t have enough time off from the last cycle. Its a tough one with exams to do. You’re going the states right? You could buy research chems while you’re out there I would imagine to continue your PCT. You should be able to take prescription drugs with you but I have no idea. Anyone care to chime in?
[/quote]

Yep bloodwork would be the best option but I literally have no time to book an appointment and get it done. And the results wont be back in time.
Yes I am going to the states, I suppose I could buy research chems however I will be staying with family and cannot order anything to the address.
I can take prescription drugs with me, but with a prescription. I dont have any prescriptions for any drug and considering the tight security in the USA I wouldnt want to risk it.

I was considering some more hCG but it may not be the way. I have started a low dose AI, .25mg adex to see if it may be high E related.

SB

38

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
For someone who has never used anabolic steroids and their training situation has them primed for excellent training during those two weeks, and with sufficient eating as well, 20 lb of scale weight is quite possible, with 10 lb retained post cycle.[/quote]

thanks

39

what kind of PCT would you need to run after 1000ml of test pro a week for 2 weeks?

cheers