Boycott Safeway Supermarket

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261

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]clinton131 wrote:

I am presupposing based on my experience with the courts. In my experience this case, based on what the article has informed us of, would not hold up. Therefore, if I was the cop at the scene, I would not have made the arrest. I would have obtained the information that was relevant at the scene, drafted a report, and submitted it to the prosecutor to let him/her decide if criminal charges are appropriate. [/quote]

Whether is holds up is NOT the issue. That is up to A JURY AND A JUDGE in court. They committed a crime. They got arrested.
[/quote]

What about mens rea do you not understand?[/quote]

I understand most of you seem to be assuming innocence.

I don’t assume this.

I assume all humans can lie.

I assume there are people out there who very well will buy a whole basket full of groceries…but forget to tell the cashier they ate a whole package of strawberries straight from the produce section.

I am not clear on why this is beyond the scope of human behavior or possibility that they just ate the damn sandwich and didn’t care until they got stopped.

Maybe they should stop eating food in stores like that.

262

Consider this scenario…

You use a shopping cart.

You put a package of toilet paper on the bottom.

You forgot to pull it out to have it rang up on your bill.

Clerk does not notice.

You walk out of the store.

You realize it when you get to the car.

Did you steal it? Was that your intent?

Things happen.

263

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

I have also never seen one sign in any grocery store that I have ever visited that eating while shopping is prohibited.[/quote]

I have also not seen a sign that reads “shitting on the floor is ill advised”.

264

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

ya found one guy that doesn’t get it either.

if you consume it and pay for it before leaving, it’s not stealing.

what is so difficult about that?

and yep, i don’t remember that sign that says “do not consume any food or beverage item before paying at check-out”.

265

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]clinton131 wrote:
Some things we do not have to present to the DA’s office. Victimless crimes would be an example. Certain misdemeanors such as domestic assault is mandatory for us to arrest, if probable cause exists. Property crimes such as this, it is our discretion if we want to make a physical arrest or not. We can issue appearance tickets and release and release the suspect and then submit a report to the DA for a review for charges if appropriate. Violent felonies are always taken into custody if Probable cause exists no discretion there. [/quote]

This is the entire problem with the scenario presented here.

The cops in this case suck.

Also, the Safeway manager sucks.

[/quote]

the ENTIRE premise of MY thread was that the safeway manager sucks. i understand the criticism toward LEO here (b/c they could have exercised discretion) but it wasn’t really my point.

what has been lost thru all the bullshit and fallacious arguments and waxing (un)poetic about what is “possible” v. what was “likely” here, was that a small child was REMOVED from the custody of her parents for 18 hours.

there are some dense fucking people here.
[/quote]

^^
This…I am going to bed. Thread over for me.

266

[quote]2busy wrote:
Consider this scenario…

You use a shopping cart.

You put a package of toilet paper on the bottom.

You forgot to pull it out to have it rang up on your bill.

Clerk does not notice.

You walk out of the store.

You realize it when you get to the car.

Did you steal it? Was that your intent?

Things happen.[/quote]

I would think that scenario would be drastically different if in addition to that, you opened the package of toilet paper, used a roll in the bathrooms and THEN didn’t pay for it.

267

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
it is IMPOSSIBLE that even in an altered state that you cannot understand the following which has been repeated to you in one way or another at least a half dozen times:

there is NO THEFT (stealing) without “intent” under the law. the couple SPECIFICALLY DENIED ANY SUCH INTENT.

no one has yet to criticize the POLICE!!!

i have criticized the STORE!!![/quote]

But, the police are really the ones that need to be criticized here (along with the store).

I can rant and yell that you stole something from me, but the police have to make a decision on whether or not to arrest you for it. I can insist that the police arrest you, but they have to make that decision.

They can, however, just issue a citation.

This would have been appropriate in this case.

268

[quote]2busy wrote:
Consider this scenario…

You use a shopping cart.

You put a package of toilet paper on the bottom.

You forgot to pull it out to have it rang up on your bill.

Clerk does not notice.

You walk out of the store.

You realize it when you get to the car.

Did you steal it? Was that your intent?

Things happen.[/quote]

This thread got long quick, but I presented that exact scenario earlier.

It was a bottle of fish oil.

I went back and paid for it.

269

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]clinton131 wrote:

I am presupposing based on my experience with the courts. In my experience this case, based on what the article has informed us of, would not hold up. Therefore, if I was the cop at the scene, I would not have made the arrest. I would have obtained the information that was relevant at the scene, drafted a report, and submitted it to the prosecutor to let him/her decide if criminal charges are appropriate. [/quote]

Whether is holds up is NOT the issue. That is up to A JURY AND A JUDGE in court. They committed a crime. They got arrested.
[/quote]

What about mens rea do you not understand?[/quote]

I understand most of you seem to be assuming innocence.

I don’t assume this.

I assume all humans can lie.

I assume there are people out there who very well will buy a whole basket full of groceries…but forget to tell the cashier they ate a whole package of strawberries straight from the produce section.

I am not clear on why this is beyond the scope of human behavior or possibility that they just ate the damn sandwich and didn’t care until they got stopped.

Maybe they should stop eating food in stores like that.[/quote]

Maybe they should.

However, this whole “anyway, they stole” is nonsense.

For that you would need to show, actually you would need to be able to prove that they wanted to steal.

In dubio pro reo and such, meaning not only is there no way of knowing their state of mind, when in doubt, they are presumed to be innocent.

This whole idea that they stole anyway, no matter what their intentions is fallacious.

270

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]2busy wrote:
Consider this scenario…

You use a shopping cart.

You put a package of toilet paper on the bottom.

You forgot to pull it out to have it rang up on your bill.

Clerk does not notice.

You walk out of the store.

You realize it when you get to the car.

Did you steal it? Was that your intent?

Things happen.[/quote]

This thread got long quick, but I presented that exact scenario earlier.

It was a bottle of fish oil.

I went back and paid for it.
[/quote]

Yeah, but once again, I would see these scenarios differently IF THE ITEM IN QUESTION HAD BEEN OPENED AND MANIPULATED before NOT buying it.

One is forgetting.

The other is saying “fuck it”.

271

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

I have also never seen one sign in any grocery store that I have ever visited that eating while shopping is prohibited.[/quote]

Ugh. Fail. There’s also no sign that clearly states raping our cashiers is prohibited. Store policy trumps all.

272

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]clinton131 wrote:

I am presupposing based on my experience with the courts. In my experience this case, based on what the article has informed us of, would not hold up. Therefore, if I was the cop at the scene, I would not have made the arrest. I would have obtained the information that was relevant at the scene, drafted a report, and submitted it to the prosecutor to let him/her decide if criminal charges are appropriate. [/quote]

Whether is holds up is NOT the issue. That is up to A JURY AND A JUDGE in court. They committed a crime. They got arrested.
[/quote]

What about mens rea do you not understand?[/quote]

I understand most of you seem to be assuming innocence.

I don’t assume this.

I assume all humans can lie.

I assume there are people out there who very well will buy a whole basket full of groceries…but forget to tell the cashier they ate a whole package of strawberries straight from the produce section.

I am not clear on why this is beyond the scope of human behavior or possibility that they just ate the damn sandwich and didn’t care until they got stopped.

Maybe they should stop eating food in stores like that.[/quote]

I got this crazy concept for you. Maybe you’ll even like it since you seem to think you’re unfairly targeted in your city. It’s called “presumption of innocence”. It’s the foundation of our laws. I bet your hamburger eating ass that you’ll cling to it if you’re ever wrongly (or otherwise) accused of a crime, or even a speeding ticket.

But anyway, that was never the point. And you knew that (maybe you didn’t - maybe it IS beyond your comprehension, who knows). The point was that it was VERY unclear what occurred and that if it COULD have been an innocent mistake, the store should have erred on the side of caution and used better discretion. Even the fucking store has managed to admit that much. According to at least one report, the wrappers were in the cart.

But yet here you are…still chasing fallacious rainbows in the sky. People eating strawberries. People forgetting to pay for the third toy (LOL). People shitting on floors. Signs that don’t exist. And hairs that are not standing on your head.

Where does your stretching a point to a ridiculous conclusion end?

273

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]2busy wrote:
Consider this scenario…

You use a shopping cart.

You put a package of toilet paper on the bottom.

You forgot to pull it out to have it rang up on your bill.

Clerk does not notice.

You walk out of the store.

You realize it when you get to the car.

Did you steal it? Was that your intent?

Things happen.[/quote]

This thread got long quick, but I presented that exact scenario earlier.

It was a bottle of fish oil.

I went back and paid for it.
[/quote]

Yeah, but once again, I would see these scenarios differently IF THE ITEM IN QUESTION HAD BEEN OPENED AND MANIPULATED before NOT buying it.

One is forgetting.

The other is saying “fuck it”.
[/quote]

Well, I don’t want to be held to your standards of perfection.

I can be a bit forgetful at times. Lots of stuff swirling around in my grey matter.

274

Just left the store.

Didn’t see one “Don’t pimp slap the floor manager” sign anywhere.

Guess what’s on the agenda for tomorrow?

275

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

I have also never seen one sign in any grocery store that I have ever visited that eating while shopping is prohibited.[/quote]

Ugh. Fail. There’s also no sign that clearly states raping our cashiers is prohibited. Store policy trumps all. [/quote]

Raping cashiers and eating a wholesome meat sandwich are the same?

276

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
it is IMPOSSIBLE that even in an altered state that you cannot understand the following which has been repeated to you in one way or another at least a half dozen times:

there is NO THEFT (stealing) without “intent” under the law. the couple SPECIFICALLY DENIED ANY SUCH INTENT.

no one has yet to criticize the POLICE!!!

i have criticized the STORE!!![/quote]

But, the police are really the ones that need to be criticized here (along with the store).

I can rant and yell that you stole something from me, but the police have to make a decision on whether or not to arrest you for it. I can insist that the police arrest you, but they have to make that decision.

They can, however, just issue a citation.

This would have been appropriate in this case.

[/quote]

I have no argument there. But this really wasn’t a “f the police thread”. It was an “f the store thread”. And we’re both presuming they could issue a citation as opposed to do what they did. I don’t know Hawaiian law. Well, there is a Hawaiian chick in my hot yoga class and…oh nevermind.

But you are correct. This is an instance where common sense was not so common that day, by all concerned.

277

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

I have also never seen one sign in any grocery store that I have ever visited that eating while shopping is prohibited.[/quote]

Ugh. Fail. There’s also no sign that clearly states raping our cashiers is prohibited. Store policy trumps all. [/quote]

It’s a fucking store selling mostly food items.

Loads of people eat while shopping. If the stores don’t like it, they should do something to prevent it.

278

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just left the store.

Didn’t see one “Don’t pimp slap the floor manager” sign anywhere.

Guess what’s on the agenda for tomorrow?[/quote]

Pimp slapping the floor manager and eating a wholesome meat sandwich are the same?

279

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This type of event does sort of speak to varying degrees of honesty that some people have. There really are a lot of people who believe that they can walk around a store chowing down and have no qualms or doubts at all about not paying for it.

My sis used to do this (and I’d assume still does) even to the extent of grabbing hands full of certain items like yogurt coated raisins, and virtually any small fruits or veggies and feeding them to her kid. I asked her about it once, and she said it wasn’t stealing at all, citing how much she was spending and the fact that “they don’t even count that type of stuff” as her rationale for doing it.

[/quote]

Right-o. Yet we have a few experts running around here saying that if you somehow present a scannable tag on some 1/2 empty bag, it’s not stealing whatsoever. I keep looking for that try before you buy sign at my local store. So far, nothing.[/quote]

Yep…I don’t see those signs either.

I wonder if I can use the toilet paper before I leave the store?[/quote]

I have also never seen one sign in any grocery store that I have ever visited that eating while shopping is prohibited.[/quote]

Ugh. Fail. There’s also no sign that clearly states raping our cashiers is prohibited. Store policy trumps all. [/quote]

Correct.

And there is no store policy against consuming an item prior to check-out.

Get it?

So…

Store policy trumps all right?

280

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Raping cashiers and eating a wholesome meat sandwich are the same?[/quote]

I’ve had safeway sandwiches before.

Wouldn’t call them wholesome.

:slight_smile: