…Obamao is highly respected compared to the treatment W. got from the media and people in general…
This is a point where many Americans will disagree with you…and disagree with you vehemently.
I disagree.
However; with that being said, I can’t say which side is “right” and which side is “wrong” (because there is no true objective measure).
It all really is a matter of ones bias and perspective. So don’t anyone try to provide their “evidence”.
Mufasa
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
From my perspective titles, not in all cases, but in this case, garner a certain level of respect when bestowed upon a person. [/quote]
Why though? because it’s a difficult job? Because he begged for it? [/quote]
No, because great men before Obama and hopefully great men after him have / will sacrificed their health and sometimes lives to perform a vital function for the people. It should be considered (IMO it is) an honor and a privilege to serve as the President of the United States. A privileged that is earned through the people’s vote. Obama might ultimately be histories worst President, but he still earned the title.
Did Reagan beg for it? Did LBJ? Did any former President? Do we consider campaigning begging?
[quote]
He isn’t an idiot, that should be why you give Zep shit. [/quote]
And neither is Obama, which is why I personally don’t belittle a man just because I disagree with his policy or decisions.
Was it a valid point? He asked a valid question and then said, “Im dumbfounded by the obamao apologists” Where is the point? All Bismark said was that Israel does things X way. I didn’t understand why he brought it up, which is why I asked. Did I miss where Bismark said Obama is in the right because Israel does it this way? After the fact he disagreed with how Obama handled the situation. So isn’t calling him an apologist an ad hom attack (I have no idea, I hate the use of these stupid terms)?
And no, calling the POTUS a name does not invalidate a point. It can certainly bury it though as it clearly has here.
[quote]Mufasa wrote: This is a point where many Americans will disagree with you…and disagree with you vehemently.
[/quote]
those people must live under a rock, or be too young to know anything
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
No, because great men before Obama and hopefully great men after him have / will sacrificed their health and sometimes lives to perform a vital function for the people. It should be considered (IMO it is) an honor and a privilege to serve as the President of the United States. A privileged that is earned through the people’s vote. Obama might ultimately be histories worst President, but he still earned the title.[/quote]
lmao… So I’m supposed to respect HIM for actions of OTHERS?
Wow. I’m really not cut out for this then. That is the most asinine thing I’ve heard all week.
Yes. You name me a modern politician that didn’t pander, and I’ll shit in a hat and eat it.
[quote]
And neither is Obama, which is why I personally don’t belittle a man just because I disagree with his policy or decisions. [/quote]
We can keep walking it back, or you guys can be consistent and just keep it all wrapped up in the flag. Bam will be okay, I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. Pretty sure he’d love to have all of you that give him undo respect hanging around though.
Only when people are expected to bow to the king.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
This guy is a piece of shit, and has no right to life considering his desertion directly led to deaths of soldiers looking for him. Fuck him.
I have no clue what obamao is smoking where trading 1 deserter piece of shit, for 4 high level enemies is in anyway logical or legal. You could maybe make a case for 1-1 trade, but 1-4; are you fucking kidding me?
[/quote]
The Israeli ratio is approximately 1:389.[/quote]
Are they deserters?
Im dumbfounded by the obamao apologists
[/quote]
I’m dumbfounded by those who are unable to use proper punctuation and have such contempt for the office of the President to feel that its acceptable to modify the CIC’s name into various pejoratives. I may disagree with the rationale that supported the invasion of Iraq, but I will always practice decorum by referring to former President Bush by his proper title. [/quote]
I do agree with you there. I make every attempt to always give the office its due honor no matter what I think of its inhabitant by always referring to them properly, or at least by their proper last name. It really bothers me when people don’t do that.
[/quote]
x3
Like we use to say in the Corps, “You don’t have to respect the man, but you WILL respect the rank.”[/quote]
Respect is earned, not given, and not granted by title or position.
CIC isn’t some holy saint that gets bowed to. In fact the entire fucking point of shooting the fucking British in the face was that the CIC wasn’t the King or Queen.
Things may be different in the military, and I understand the need, there, to adhere to that rationale.
But in the civilian world, POTUS is just a man, with a really important job, who may be really shitty at said job, or not be able to earn respect while in that job. I respect the job is hard, I understand. But people beg for billions in order to beg voters for that job, and they work for me when they get that job.
Therefore, when I want to call POTUS Bam, Bambino, 43, 41, Clinton or Fuckface, I will. And not only will I do so at will, proudly, I won’t be spoken to or about, by anyone as having my character or patriotism put in question because I demand the Leader of the Free World ACT with respect, dignity and integrity if he/she wants those things in return. [/quote]
That’s fine. I tend to agree actually. For some reason it really annoys me when somebody says Obamao or Obummer or something dumb like that. Nicknames I don’t have a problem with mostly, in all reality. It just bugs me when somebody insists on using the person’s name, but won’t actually just say it. It’s passive aggressive, and passive aggressive is really just bullshit. Either just come out and say something or don’t. I don’t even mind aggression most of the time, just be straight up about it. You have no problem with this, and therefore I never had a problem with your labels.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Not by me though! And I certainly never implied he or you were anything close to traitors lol. But I know you were just venting.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Not by me though! And I certainly never implied he or you were anything close to traitors lol. But I know you were just venting.[/quote]
What exactly is being implied about me?
I stated that there is a double standard in the treatment of W. vs bho
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Not by me though! [/quote]
No, not by you or USMC
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
That we will openly mock or berate the highest office in the land makes me exceptionally proud of my country. Lack of respect for shit authority is beautifully American.[/quote]
The fact that we can do it without being jailed, tortured or murdered makes me exceptionally proud of my country.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Not by me though! [/quote]
No, not by you or USMC[/quote]
Nor by me, explicitly or implicitly. Arguing otherwise is ludicrous, and frankly, underhanded.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Why are you comparing the U.S. to Israel Bismark?[/quote]
It’s an interesting comparison in that Israeli counter-terrorism policy is often held to be the ideal. To be clear, I’m vehemently opposed to the deal that the administration made.[/quote]
You did make an interesting point. I’m a bit fuzzy on your rationale for being opposed to the deal because I don’t remember what you said. Give a quick recap on your reasons?
I think we were along similar lines but I do not recall.
[/quote]
First, engaging in prisoner swaps with terrorists (which the Afghan Taliban are, regardless of their removal from State’s foreign terrorist organization list) increases the incentives for rebel groups to engage in terrorism. Counterterrorism strategies should aim to deprive terrorism of its political utility.
Second, the costs to benefit ratio of trading five high level commanders for an NCO does not justify the prisoner exchange.
Lastly, there are the circumstances of Bergdahl’s capture. He naively deserted his post and likely aided and abetted the enemy. Good men are dead because of him.
[quote]Bismark wrote:
Second, the costs to benefit ratio of trading five high level commanders for an NCO does not justify the prisoner exchange.
Lastly, there are the circumstances of Bergdahl’s capture. He naively deserted his post and likely aided and abetted the enemy. Good men are dead because of him.
[/quote]
“The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by our nation.” – George Washington
I think you have a shortsighted view of the value of the return of the man. On an individual level Bergdahl might not be of the same trading value. But his value isn’t in the individual, but in the symbol. We veterans still get to look at each other, and not just recite a corny catchphrase, but KNOW that we do what it takes to bring each other back. Even if you’re a shitbird.
American exceptionalism is real. It’s certainly taken some hits as of late, but with apologies to the rest of the world, America is the brightest light in the history of our species. As such, sometimes we have to make some really lopsided decisions to maintain moral high standing and serve as an example.
Lastly, we point out to the next Bergdahl, that you don’t just walk out. If you’re a traitor, you will find no succor with the enemy. We are going Liam Neeson your ass. If you walk out, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. When you join the military, you didn’t just pick up a job. You have obligations to the men to the left and right of you, and by the gods, you will live up to them. And if you don’t, then we will get our pound of flesh from you. Not the enemy. Us.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
And I’ll do it now.
Why is it necessary to continually remind people that Obama’s middle name is Hussein?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
No, because great men before Obama and hopefully great men after him have / will sacrificed their health and sometimes lives to perform a vital function for the people. It should be considered (IMO it is) an honor and a privilege to serve as the President of the United States. A privileged that is earned through the people’s vote. Obama might ultimately be histories worst President, but he still earned the title.[/quote]
lmao… So I’m supposed to respect HIM for actions of OTHERS?
Wow. I’m really not cut out for this then. That is the most asinine thing I’ve heard all week.
Yes. You name me a modern politician that didn’t pander, and I’ll shit in a hat and eat it.
[quote]
And neither is Obama, which is why I personally don’t belittle a man just because I disagree with his policy or decisions. [/quote]
We can keep walking it back, or you guys can be consistent and just keep it all wrapped up in the flag. Bam will be okay, I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. Pretty sure he’d love to have all of you that give him undo respect hanging around though.
Only when people are expected to bow to the king. [/quote]
I genuinely like you Beans, but the vast majority of this post is complete and utter garbage. It either ignores what I’ve written or is a misrepresentation of what I’ve written.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Where?
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
Second, the costs to benefit ratio of trading five high level commanders for an NCO does not justify the prisoner exchange.
Lastly, there are the circumstances of Bergdahl’s capture. He naively deserted his post and likely aided and abetted the enemy. Good men are dead because of him.
[/quote]
“The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by our nation.” – George Washington
I think you have a shortsighted view of the value of the return of the man. On an individual level Bergdahl might not be of the same trading value. But his value isn’t in the individual, but in the symbol. We veterans still get to look at each other, and not just recite a corny catchphrase, but KNOW that we do what it takes to bring each other back. Even if you’re a shitbird.
American exceptionalism is real. It’s certainly taken some hits as of late, but with apologies to the rest of the world, America is the brightest light in the history of our species. As such, sometimes we have to make some really lopsided decisions to maintain moral high standing and serve as an example.
Lastly, we point out to the next Bergdahl, that you don’t just walk out. If you’re a traitor, you will find no succor with the enemy. We are going Liam Neeson your ass. If you walk out, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. When you join the military, you didn’t just pick up a job. You have obligations to the men to the left and right of you, and by the gods, you will live up to them. And if you don’t, then we will get our pound of flesh from you. Not the enemy. Us. [/quote]
Fantastic post.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
and see how long it takes to be labeled the most awful racist bigot on earth… [/quote]
And that is 100% what was implied about you earlier in the thread. [/quote]
Where? [/quote]
I’m done with the hijack… If you don’t want to read the conversation, I can’t explain it further.