[quote]randman wrote:
New Hampshire!!!
[/quote]
LMAO! I loves the state liq-ah sto-ah!
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Celtics, Red Sox and Bruins got pounded last night.
V[/quote]
So what the heck do you guys have? Oh, that’s right. The Yankees. That’s it. The $200 million dollar team that buys you some championships from time to time. What else you got? The Rangers? Ha. The Mets? Please. The Knicks? I better stop before it gets ugly.[/quote]
I love the excuse that money buys success. The Steelers seem to disagree. remember the Lakers with Kobe, Shaq, Peyton, and Malone? They did not win a championship. The Yankees win. It is pretty simple.
Umm…you can’t point to another sport where the gap in the Yankees total team salary every year compared to even the number 2 team is a much larger gap than anywhere else. Money buys you whatever player you want on the market.
Baseball is a collection of individual stars, it’s the least team-oriented sport. This money buys you shots at the championship much more than say the Pittsburgh Pirates whose whole team salary equals Gayrod’s salary alone. Please.
And don’t tell me a team like Pittsburgh can just decide to spend $200 million like the Spanks do. Baseball is the mozt lopsided sport there is. So enough with the “they just win” rhetoric.
Last year was the most obvious year ever when ur team plunked down near a half a billion dollars to get the three best players on the market. This “team” spent more than every other team combined.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Celtics, Red Sox and Bruins got pounded last night.
V[/quote]
So what the heck do you guys have? Oh, that’s right. The Yankees. That’s it. The $200 million dollar team that buys you some championships from time to time. What else you got? The Rangers? Ha. The Mets? Please. The Knicks? I better stop before it gets ugly.[/quote]
G-men won a super bowl recently, they generally field a good team, especially in a touch division. Tom Brady can lick and elephants asshole.
V
Los Angeles, assholes!!! we’ll bring you down to your knees!!! - YouTube
David
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Celtics, Red Sox and Bruins got pounded last night.
V[/quote]
So what the heck do you guys have? Oh, that’s right. The Yankees. That’s it. The $200 million dollar team that buys you some championships from time to time. What else you got? The Rangers? Ha. The Mets? Please. The Knicks? I better stop before it gets ugly.[/quote]
G-men won a super bowl recently, they generally field a good team, especially in a touch division. Tom Brady can lick and elephants asshole.
V[/quote]
oh yeah. Gmen are usually pretty good. U got me on that one. Damn, I still have nightmares about that super bowl. Damn!!!
[quote]randman wrote:
Umm…you can’t point to another sport where the gap in the Yankees total team salary every year compared to even the number 2 team is a much larger gap than anywhere else. Money buys you whatever player you want on the market.
Baseball is a collection of individual stars, it’s the least team-oriented sport. This money buys you shots at the championship much more than say the Pittsburgh Pirates whose whole team salary equals Gayrod’s salary alone. Please.
And don’t tell me a team like Pittsburgh can just decide to spend $200 million like the Spanks do. Baseball is the mozt lopsided sport there is. So enough with the “they just win” rhetoric.
Last year was the most obvious year ever when ur team plunked down near a half a billion dollars to get the three best players on the market. This “team” spent more than every other team combined.[/quote]
This is a joke right?
Do you think Lebron actually needs a team? If you put 4 random guys from rucker park on the court with him his team would still win games in nba. He just takes the ball and runs to the hoop and gets fouled or makes a lay up. He passes the ball and takes jump shots for the fuck of it. Just so he doesnt get bored. The same can be said for a bunch of guys in the nb.
Youre a typical yankee hater. You hate because they spend the money they have. If you were running a business and the goal of the business was to WIN you better believe that you’d be spending money also. The dodgers can spend a helluva lot more than they do. Why don’t they? Well right now the reason is because the franchise is a wreck but that’s just recently.
The steinbrenners spend money so the yankees can win. Other owners spend the minimum amount of money that will allow them to profit, making their own wallets fatter. Most owners in the league want to make their money first and win games second.
This isn’t my opinion, either. The marlins organization has already been reprimanded for not spending their cut of the luxury tax money on the team. The yankees actually paid the marlins and the marlins DIDNT use that money for the team. The owner pocketed it.
I understand why its easy to hate on the richest team but you sound like an idiot for saying that the yankees are the problem. If the other teams put in the same effort (not dollar for dollar obiously) this conversation wouldnt even occur.
Sure the yankees can take bigger risks with free agent deals. So what. They fail on most of them. That doesnt affect other teams at all. Other teams should learn to sell tickets and merchandise like the yankees do. Nothing is stopping other teams from becoming better businesses.
Yes, I’m a Yankee hater. That being said, you can’t deny that the balance of team payrolls is the most out of whack in baseball. You just can’t. The numbers don’t lie.
Kudos to the George Steinbrenner for investing so much over the years to create this juggernaut but it is getting to a point of being a little out of control. C’mon dude. Your team spent half a billion dollars last year and ended up with a championship. When does it get to be too much?
Personally I think they should set the team payroll at the current $160 million (I think) and make the penalty for going over this amount more than it currently is. Make the Yankees or Sox or whoever pay $2 for every $1 spent over that amount instead of the 1 for 1 deal now. It’s simply out of control.
Your argument that other teams don’t spend as much and pocket the profits has a hint of truth to it but no one has the spending power of the Yankees dude. Like I said, Pittsburgh just can’t decide to start spending $200 million a year to compete the Yankees payroll. It ain’t gonna happen. This is a weak defense.
Every other sport has some discrepancy between the top spending team and the next one down but it’s not even close with the Yankees. Like I said, it’s getting out of control. It’s not just the fans (non-Yankee fans) bitching about it. Many that work in baseball acknowledge the problem. Just cuz your a Yankee fan don’t deny that there isn’t any problem.
The problem lies more with baseball than the Yankees. It’s simply the Yankees are taking full advantage of their market power and being in a huge city with vast resources.
It still my perception that last year more than any other that you guys “bought” a championship by spending half a billion dollars on the top free agents. The spanks outspent everyone by a long shot and made sure no one would outbid them. It’s getting ridiculous.
Lastly, can other teams be run better? Sure. Does Pittsburgh have the market that New York has? Absolutely not. Do I believe the revenue share model has to be tweaked even further to spread the wealth around even more to lessen the huge discrepancy in team payrolls? ABSOLUTELY.
[quote]randman wrote:
Yes, I’m a Yankee hater. That being said, you can’t deny that the balance of team payrolls is the most out of whack in baseball. You just can’t. The numbers don’t lie.
Kudos to the George Steinbrenner for investing so much over the years to create this juggernaut but it is getting to a point of being a little out of control. C’mon dude. Your team spent half a billion dollars last year and ended up with a championship. When does it get to be too much?
Personally I think they should set the team payroll at the current $160 million (I think) and make the penalty for going over this amount more than it currently is. Make the Yankees or Sox or whoever pay $2 for every $1 spent over that amount instead of the 1 for 1 deal now. It’s simply out of control.
Your argument that other teams don’t spend as much and pocket the profits has a hint of truth to it but no one has the spending power of the Yankees dude. Like I said, Pittsburgh just can’t decide to start spending $200 million a year to compete the Yankees payroll. It ain’t gonna happen. This is a weak defense.
Every other sport has some discrepancy between the top spending team and the next one down but it’s not even close with the Yankees. Like I said, it’s getting out of control. It’s not just the fans (non-Yankee fans) bitching about it. Many that work in baseball acknowledge the problem. Just cuz your a Yankee fan don’t deny that there isn’t any problem.
The problem lies more with baseball than the Yankees. It’s simply the Yankees are taking full advantage of their market power and being in a huge city with vast resources.
It still my perception that last year more than any other that you guys “bought” a championship by spending half a billion dollars on the top free agents. The spanks outspent everyone by a long shot and made sure no one would outbid them. It’s getting ridiculous.
Lastly, can other teams be run better? Sure. Does Pittsburgh have the market that New York has? Absolutely not. Do I believe the revenue share model has to be tweaked even further to spread the wealth around even more to lessen the huge discrepancy in team payrolls? ABSOLUTELY.[/quote]
Every other sport has a salary cap. So stop with the ‘discrepancy’ talk. Obviously the potential is higher in baseball because theres no cap. Do you understand the economics of this stuff?
You want a salary cap. Fine. But why even allow teams to go over if you want a cap? You cant have your cake and eat it. Your plan is just a dumber version of the current plan. It would put more restrictions on teams. On teams that are PAYING other teams to get better.
There is a reason the luxury tax exists. Because it benefits the whole league. Do you think the other owners arent thrilled that the yankees and red sox and mets have to pay them each season? They love it. A cap would ruin their fun.
I know the pirates cant start spending 200 mill. The pirates are a triple A team. Its one of the worst organizations in all of sports. That’s not the yankees fault, nor is it MLBs fault. They still wouldnt be able to spend 160mill if there was a cap, so whats the point. That organization is a lost cause.
You keep saying that the yankees bought a championship. Dont you get it that THAT IS THE POINT. Everyteam is TRYING to buy a championship, in one way or another. The tigers gave ~130 mill to miguel cabrera. Why did they do that? To win a championship.
The twins just gave mauer 184 mill TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. Im not going through the list of high priced free agents. You arent mad that the yankees spend money, youre mad that yankees have more of it to spend. So you want to punish them for it. Simply jealously.
If you were interested in the best interest of the league youd be far more pissed off that small budget teams can pocket the luxury tax money instead of spending it on making the team better. IMO that is called stealing. Stealing from the fans and the league.
And my opinion on all of this. I dont like that the yankees buy “every” free agent. But Id be pissed if they had a hole on the team (starting pitching, first base) and didnt address the problem. They dumped an OF and DH and got new ones. What were they supposed to do? Trade for another teams minor league prospect and develop him? GTFO. The yankees have the goal to WIN the world series EVERY YEAR. That doesnt happen buy avoiding buying free agents.
As of right now the yanks have a fair balance of home grown talent and free agent pick ups.
Farm system
Jeter
Posada
Rivera
Hughes
Cano
Gardner
Chamberlain
Cervelli
Pettitte
Robertson
Nick Johnson
Pena
Free agents
Rodriguez
Sabathia
Burnett
Vasquez
Granderson
Swisher
Thames
Teixeira
Marte
Wynn
And thats not the whole 25 man roster.
Numbers don’t lie:
2009 Financial Stats
Team Value Revenue Player Exp Op. Income
Yankees $1.5 bil 375 mil 236 mil -3.7 mil
Mets $912 mil 261 mil 157 mil 23.5 mil
Red Sox $833 mil 269 mil 165 mil 25.7 mil
Dodgers $722 mil 241 mil 138 mil 16.5 mil
So the Dodgers could spend more than they currently do? Ok, if they wanted to break even they could have spent another $16 million for another high value player in 2009. Even so, they wouldn’t be able to approach the Yankees team payroll or market power. And keep in mind these are the top spending teams; there is a HUGE gap between the top spending teams and the bottom dwellers.
Am I saying that it should be even across the board? No, that’s not realistic. But I think the penalties for going over a team payroll amount for the year should be even higher than it is. Unfortunately it’s due to the Yankee effect. The Yankee market power keeps growing and growing putting more and more distance between them and everyone else.
Can the Yankees afford to take more risks that fail? Absolutely. It’s because of their vast resources. And the negative operating income would make sense for 2009 since they moved into a new stadium and spent like crazy in the offseason getting all of your championship pieces. Does it guarantee them a championship every year? No. But it does pretty much guarantee they’re in the running.
Now go do this analysis for any other major sport and the discrepancies are not this big in team payrolls from top to bottom.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Every other sport has a salary cap. So stop with the ‘discrepancy’ talk. Obviously the potential is higher in baseball because theres no cap. Do you understand the economics of this stuff?
[/quote]
I understand them quite well thank you.
Obviously you don’t understand what I said. I’m not saying to put a salary cap in place but to increase the luxury tax even further. It will put even more of a deterrent of the top spending teams to spend beyond the luxury tax threshold. This would lessen the discrepancy between the top spending team and teams versus the lower end even more.
ok, point taken. I used the most extreme example to make a point.
Do some teams pocket some money that they could spend? Yes, I’ve already said this. However, you want to ignore the fact that the Yankees have vast resources that outpace everyone by a percentage that you don’t see in any other sport, league, etc. At least in the U.S. I wouldn’t use the word punish.
I’m not talking about completely revamping anything but tweaking the current system to make it even harder to spend over the luxury tax. This WOULD lower the payroll discrepancies without putting a hard cap in place.
This is the first time I’ve heard you say this. It’s cool that even a Yankees fan can admit that there is something a little bit off with this. Look, this is something that hasn’t gotten out of control just recently. The Yankees in the 1990s could say look, we grew most of our talent because we had a superior farm system.
Now it seems to have taken a turn where we will go buy whoever we need to win championships. You can argue it all you want, but you poll a majority of baseball fans out there and they will all call your organization guilty of “buying” a championship last year.
Taken to the extreme, why even bother playing for the championship. Why not just auction it off to the highest bidder. There is a line that’s starting to be toed here where it’s starting to get out of control.
[quote]randman wrote:
Numbers don’t lie:
2009 Financial Stats
Team Value Revenue Player Exp Op. Income
Yankees $1.5 bil 375 mil 236 mil -3.7 mil
Mets $912 mil 261 mil 157 mil 23.5 mil
Red Sox $833 mil 269 mil 165 mil 25.7 mil
Dodgers $722 mil 241 mil 138 mil 16.5 mil
So the Dodgers could spend more than they currently do? Ok, if they wanted to break even they could have spent another $16 million for another high value player in 2009. Even so, they wouldn’t be able to approach the Yankees team payroll or market power. And keep in mind these are the top spending teams; there is a HUGE gap between the top spending teams and the bottom dwellers.
Am I saying that it should be even across the board? No, that’s not realistic. But I think the penalties for going over a team payroll amount for the year should be even higher than it is. Unfortunately it’s due to the Yankee effect. The Yankee market power keeps growing and growing putting more and more distance between them and everyone else.
Can the Yankees afford to take more risks that fail? Absolutely. It’s because of their vast resources. And the negative operating income would make sense for 2009 since they moved into a new stadium and spent like crazy in the offseason getting all of your championship pieces. Does it guarantee them a championship every year? No. But it does pretty much guarantee they’re in the running.
Now go do this analysis for any other major sport and the discrepancies are not this big in team payrolls from top to bottom. [/quote]
Explain to me how doubling the salary cap would prevent the yankees from being the highest payroll? Mind you, Im not saying it would be a bad thing. I just dont understand you point. Ive already stated that teams are not using the luxury tax money efficiently. How would having more of it change that?
I already stated that other sports dont see this happening because every team has the same payroll. That will never happen in baseball. Did you post this before reading my last post?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Explain to me how doubling the salary cap would prevent the yankees from being the highest payroll? Mind you, Im not saying it would be a bad thing. I just dont understand you point. Ive already stated that teams are not using the luxury tax money efficiently. How would having more of it change that?
I already stated that other sports dont see this happening because every team has the same payroll. That will never happen in baseball. Did you post this before reading my last post? [/quote]
Good question. Would it bring absolute parity across the league? No, I’m not smoking dope. That’s a pipe dream. Would it make other teams spend more money than they already do? No, not necessarily. But since implementing the luxury tax lower payroll teams have been spending more money so there is some effect. I’m saying tweak it even further to encourage more of it.
So, understand what I’m saying. I’m saying take the one dollar for every one dollar spent over the the luxury tax threshold and raise it to two dollars for every one dollar spent over the luxury tax threshold and evaluate for a few years and see if it doesn’t bring even a little more parity to the league.
I feel like I’m running for office here ;0 What my proposed plan would do would make the top teams (especially the Yankees) stay even closer to the luxury tax threshold and not spend wildly over it. This would have a further trickle down effect to the rest of the league and guess what?
Some teams would continue to increase their payroll why the Yankees et al would decrease it a little bit more. It would make the offseason a little more competitive and maybe the Dodgers would end up outbidding for a player more so than the Yankees almost always winning that game every time they covet someone.
And lastly, and most importantly, you would have non-Yankee fans like me quiet down the rhetoric that the Yankees are now in the business of buying championships and just going back to good ole fashion hate. ;0
[quote]randman wrote:
This is the first time I’ve heard you say this. It’s cool that even a Yankees fan can admit that there is something a little bit off with this. Look, this is something that hasn’t gotten out of control just recently. The Yankees in the 1990s could say look, we grew most of our talent because we had a superior farm system.
Now it seems to have taken a turn where we will go buy whoever we need to win championships. You can argue it all you want, but you poll a majority of baseball fans out there and they will all call your organization guilty of “buying” a championship last year.
Taken to the extreme, why even bother playing for the championship. Why not just auction it off to the highest bidder. There is a line that’s starting to be toed here where it’s starting to get out of control.
[/quote]
I think youre still lost. How many championships did the yakees buy, according you? In this post you say that the yankees won the WS in the 1990s because of their farm system. Which is not completely the case because by 1999 they accquired a few critical free agents but anyway.
You claim that the yankees got out of hand with free agent buying in the 2000’s. Fine. How many World Series did they win? 2000 and 2009. 2000 was still comprised of the group of guys that won the first 3 in the 90’s. 2009 is one year after many failed years.
I dont care if the yankees bought a championship. They will ALWAYS have the highest payroll in the current situation. That means they will always “buy” a championship in the eyes of people like you. People like you conveniently ignore that for 8 years they had the highest payroll but didnt win the WS. OBVIOUSLY more goes in to winning than just having the most expensive players.
The yankees ownership DOES NOT CARE how much money they pay in luxury tax. It’s inconsequential. Your plan would not work. It also wouldnt work because all other teams are TRYING to get more money. If the luxury tax indcreased and the yankees were inclined to spend less other teams would receive less. So theres a ideological reason and a business reason that your plan wouldnt work.
Relax. It’s may, the Sox will be fine.
I thought this thread was supposed to be about dissing Beantown?
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I thought this thread was supposed to be about dissing Beantown?[/quote]
Theyre in 4th place in may. Who gives a shit about the sox
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I thought this thread was supposed to be about dissing Beantown?[/quote]
Theyre in 4th place in may. Who gives a shit about the sox [/quote]
That’s the spirit!!