Book: 'Wheat Belly'

Diet and Nutrition
41

Interesting, however consider this:

This guy’s a doctor dealing with the general population. He tells his patients to cut out wheat products. What are the odds that they’re all eating only whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, plain bagels? No, they’re probably eating chocolate chip muffins, sandwiches with heavy mayo/dressing, bagels smoothered in cream cheese.

If there’s something to this wheat belly hypothesis, it should be tested on groups who :

  1. Are eating a controlled diet with and without wheat
  2. Don’t have any issue with gluten.

It’s an interesting hypothesis, but no more than that. Something probably worth testing on yourself to see if you can get that extra degree of leanness (as in the case of ID).

42

I read Wheat Belly from front to back and while yes the author does not do much to prove his theories, it is a good read. The facts about wheat are very interesting. Considering I hardly eat the shit except for the occasional cheat meal I try and eat gluten free 97% of the time. Robb Wolf recently said that if we could eliminate gluten from out diets we would add 5 years to our lives. Interesting stuff…from a body comp standpoint I think eliminating wheat can only be a good thing regardless of how tolerant someone is.

43

Can someone explain to me, why companies will eliminate the vitamins, minerals, and fiber from grain, then artificially add it back in when making bread ? If it’s already there, why would you remove it only to put it back in ?

It is my experience that food grown naturally is more satisfying and filling. When you fuck with food, you mess with it’s ability to make you feel full. I notice this when I go back to Italy and see the family. I still eat plenty, probably even more carbs then I would eat here, yet still lose probably 10 lbs in a week.

44

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Interesting, however consider this:

This guy’s a doctor dealing with the general population. He tells his patients to cut out wheat products. What are the odds that they’re all eating only whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, plain bagels? No, they’re probably eating chocolate chip muffins, sandwiches with heavy mayo/dressing, bagels smoothered in cream cheese.

If there’s something to this wheat belly hypothesis, it should be tested on groups who :

  1. Are eating a controlled diet with and without wheat
  2. Don’t have any issue with gluten.

It’s an interesting hypothesis, but no more than that. Something probably worth testing on yourself to see if you can get that extra degree of leanness (as in the case of ID). [/quote]

http://web.mac.com/seattledebs/gofrolic/food_blog/Entries/2008/11/22_Sourdough,_Gluten_and_Weston_Price.html

The type of grain product matters VERY much.

45

Huh either i am minority or no one else who doesnt have a problem with wheat/gluten has posted here. I can eat wheat bread anythign like that without becomeing lethargic or bloated or having any other issues. Guess i am just lucky. Not saying i cant develop and allergy to it.

Also i dont really eat it often because i can eat way to many carbs in the form of bread or basically anything that contains wheat. Also i would hate it it i develop an allergy to avenin. I heavily rely on oats as a carb source. I love them.

46

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Can someone explain to me, why companies will eliminate the vitamins, minerals, and fiber from grain, then artificially add it back in when making bread ? If it’s already there, why would you remove it only to put it back in ?

It is my experience that food grown naturally is more satisfying and filling. When you fuck with food, you mess with it’s ability to make you feel full. I notice this when I go back to Italy and see the family. I still eat plenty, probably even more carbs then I would eat here, yet still lose probably 10 lbs in a week. [/quote]

The elimination of vitamins and minerals from food is a byproduct of making it more consumer-friendly to the Average Joe (better taste, improved shelf life, faster cooking, etc). For instance, much of the micro-nutritional value of rice is lost when brown rice is made into white rice. However, many people prefer the taste of white rice, it cooks faster and also goes better with certain dishes.

Sometimes they are added back in due to public health policies (i.e., required by law to prevent deficiencies in people who rely on those types of foods), other times so the manufacturers can advertise how healthful their food is.

47

it depends on the bread and how its really made. I have ate some whole wheat bread that left me bloated for hours. I like pita bread much easier for my body to process. recently tried ezikel, its good.

48

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
One premise of the book is that the wheat we consume today is genetically different from the wheat ‘we’ consumed 100 even 50 years ago. Genetic modifications have increase yields but the modifications were never tested before approved. USDA recommends that we eat much higher proportions of grains, which if these claims are true is creating a nasty feedback loop of increased illness.

Another premise is that whole grain wheat flour products have higher GI’s than some sugars and even white bread.
[/quote]

I have yet to read this book, although it looks very interesting.

However, I do have questions based on this premise alone.

EVERYTHING we eat is genetically quite different from what our ancestors ate. Yes wheat has been GMed. But you’re kidding yourself if you think the same hasn’t been done with corn (just ask Monsanto), tomatoes, or even beef/chicken.

If wheat is evil for you, what about those other foods?

Also, wouldn’t you say people in general are nowadays “bigger” and live longer than we used to 100 years ago? So what’s the obsession with living like ancestors?

IMHO wheat makes people “fat” because it tastes good. 100g of pizza or white bread tastes a heck of a lot better than 100g of quinoa. Which is why we all eat burgers or pizza on cheat days instead of scoffing down more oats. Its easier to eat more stuff when it tastes good…[/quote]

The notion that Norman Borlaug is now a villain because of increased gluten loads in wheat drives me mad. For a starving person in the developing world, I doubt they care a great deal about the level of “allergens” present in their food.

This book is dealing with 1st world problems.
[/quote]

This is true, but let’s face it, we’re all hanging out on a bodybuilding/nutrition/expensive-supplement website and many of us are large humans still complaining that we’re not big enough.

As a population, we the T-Nationers are poster children for “first world problems” :slight_smile:

49

[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
it depends on the bread and how its really made. I have ate some whole wheat bread that left me bloated for hours. I like pita bread much easier for my body to process. recently tried ezikel, its good.[/quote]

This bypasses the premise of the author. The method of bread making is irrelevant if they’re using this strain of wheat whether it was grown organically, prepared a certain way, or otherwise.

50

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]ColinD624 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]theBird wrote:
Hi friends,

I have cut out 85% of my wheat consumption as of 2 weeks ago. I feel I do have more energy, especially in the mornings(although this may be related to my recent recovery from caffeine addiction). I think my skin is a bit smoother aswell.

Is oats ok? I believe they do not have gluten?

tweet[/quote]

Oats contain gluten, but many people on gluten-free diets are able to handle them and eat them regularly.

Eat them, see how you feel, then decide.[/quote]

Thats because oats DO NOT contain gluten.

Though they are often milled with the same equipment used on wheat and making them problematic for those with celiac.
[/quote]

He likely confused gluten with avenin.

As for Wheat Belly, the author takes some very serious liberties with the studies done on wheat and mental health.

Emily Deans does a good job discussing them on her blog. (Note: Dr. Deans rarely eats wheat herself - far from a grain-industry lobbyist.)
[/quote]

Deans review was bizarre; does she think this is an instruction manual for ER physician’s or for medical students? It’s a book for the mainstream audience, and educates them about the difference between modern “dwarf” wheat (which was developed purely for $, not health) and the wheat of the past (which was never really a health food to begin with), something most people know nothing about. Great. Good job Dr. Davis.

Also, whereas Taubes’ GCBC identified that total carbs might be an issue, now Davis has identified that wheat may be an issue independent of total carbs. OK, good to know.

52

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Please up your reading comprehension skills.

BBB[/quote]

Agreed. Clear and to the point.

53

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
For those of you who are anti-wheat, I am curious to know what some of your carb sources are. I am not talking about fruits and veggies, but what other foods do you get as carbs ?[/quote]

Quinoa. I go through it by the sack.[/quote]

You got as lean as you are in your avatar with quinoa ?[/quote]

Yessir, I eat my carbs at 5AM, 8AM, and 11AM, and then cutoff after that. I train at 6AM everyday.

Also, aside from quinoa, vegetables are my only carb source. I eat zero sugar in any other form.[/quote]

So do you never eat at restaurants? Cutting out wheat completely makes it close to impossible to eat out except for a couple exceptions.[/quote]

you’re joking right? insanely easy to cut out wheat when eating out. The options are there
[/quote]

No, I meant from a Social POV.

If you go out with friends and family or with your g/f it can be difficult.

[/quote]

  • steak and a baked potato
  • chicken, potatoes, rice, and a salad
  • grilled chicken and veggies
  • steak and lobster

basically a piece of meat, veggies, and rice and/or potatoes. all wheat free. if the bread basket comes around, say, “no thanks.” i dont see how this can possibly be difficult from a social perspective.

54

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Interesting, however consider this:

This guy’s a doctor dealing with the general population. He tells his patients to cut out wheat products. What are the odds that they’re all eating only whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, plain bagels? No, they’re probably eating chocolate chip muffins, sandwiches with heavy mayo/dressing, bagels smoothered in cream cheese.

If there’s something to this wheat belly hypothesis, it should be tested on groups who :

  1. Are eating a controlled diet with and without wheat
  2. Don’t have any issue with gluten.

It’s an interesting hypothesis, but no more than that. Something probably worth testing on yourself to see if you can get that extra degree of leanness (as in the case of ID). [/quote]

What makes you say that ID ‘got lean’? He does not say that. Both he and I (and many others) experience bloating and lethargy from wheat.

Please up your reading comprehension skills.

BBB[/quote]

Ok, I skimmed various responses and got a bit jumbled in bloated vs lean. I suppose, as is always the case on the internet that the rest of my valid points are now completely irrelevant.

55

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Can someone explain to me, why companies will eliminate the vitamins, minerals, and fiber from grain, then artificially add it back in when making bread ? If it’s already there, why would you remove it only to put it back in ?

It is my experience that food grown naturally is more satisfying and filling. When you fuck with food, you mess with it’s ability to make you feel full. I notice this when I go back to Italy and see the family. I still eat plenty, probably even more carbs then I would eat here, yet still lose probably 10 lbs in a week. [/quote]

they are destroyed in the processing, so in order to be sold as food they must contain certain vitamins added back in

58

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Can someone explain to me, why companies will eliminate the vitamins, minerals, and fiber from grain, then artificially add it back in when making bread ? If it’s already there, why would you remove it only to put it back in ?

It is my experience that food grown naturally is more satisfying and filling. When you fuck with food, you mess with it’s ability to make you feel full. I notice this when I go back to Italy and see the family. I still eat plenty, probably even more carbs then I would eat here, yet still lose probably 10 lbs in a week. [/quote]

they are destroyed in the processing, so in order to be sold as food they must contain certain vitamins added back in[/quote]

Absolutely and this is a great selling point for convincing people to move away from eating cerial.

“Do you know why they have to ‘fortify’ breakfast cerials with vitamins and minerals? Because it is so nutritionally retarded, by itself that it actually depletes more nutrients than it gives you.”

Gold.

BBB[/quote]

Do you really think they will care. They will jsut point out that hey the vitamins and minerals are in there now

Which of course is stupid and unfortunate

59

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Interesting, however consider this:

This guy’s a doctor dealing with the general population. He tells his patients to cut out wheat products. What are the odds that they’re all eating only whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, plain bagels? No, they’re probably eating chocolate chip muffins, sandwiches with heavy mayo/dressing, bagels smoothered in cream cheese.

If there’s something to this wheat belly hypothesis, it should be tested on groups who :

  1. Are eating a controlled diet with and without wheat
  2. Don’t have any issue with gluten.

It’s an interesting hypothesis, but no more than that. Something probably worth testing on yourself to see if you can get that extra degree of leanness (as in the case of ID). [/quote]

What makes you say that ID ‘got lean’? He does not say that. Both he and I (and many others) experience bloating and lethargy from wheat.

Please up your reading comprehension skills.

BBB[/quote]

Ok, I skimmed various responses and got a bit jumbled in bloated vs lean. I suppose, as is always the case on the internet that the rest of my valid points are now completely irrelevant. [/quote]

LOL, no not at all. I didn’t mean to attack you and I’m sorry if I offended you, though you do seem to have been largely unruffled by my comment - which is as it should be, this being merely the interwebz after all.

As to your other points, whilst I can see where you are coming from, and whilst I do agree that the type of wheat product can play a massive role in the degree of irritation, I feel it would be a mistake for you to discount the information as ‘only relevant to the general population who eats all manner of shitty wheat products, not those who eat ‘healthy’ wheat products.’

When you have eliminated wheat for some weeks, and you add it back in, you will probably notice that ALL wheat-based products engender some degree of irritation. OK so the amount of wheat plays a part, as does the type of product, but generally you get a reaction from any and all wheat-based products.

BBB[/quote]

Yeah, I was a bit sensitive this morning. Still pissed about blowing a tire on the highway last night and the trouble it took to get the last nut off (damn crowbar rounded the corners)… I haven’t tried completely eliminating wheat, but I’m pretty close. I eat chipotle burritos every week after one workout and then a couple slices of wheat bread during the week and an occasional hamburger bun. I think like most here, I tend to lean towards rice and potatoes the majority of the time.

60

What do you guys think about rice noodles and rice flour as a carb source? Any different from regular rice?