Thanks buddy…yeah the numbers are raw…got a long way to go to be where I want to be (and even then Ill probably not be satisfied) but happy with my progress over the past year or so. Getting my nutrition dialed in has really helped.
I haven’t been taking the CoQ10 for long–I ended up not taking it when I said I was going to before, so only been taking it for the past week and a half. I didn’t even realize there was a test for it. I dont have any real reason to think I am deficient in it, so likely wont be pursuing that but thanks for the info about that and the CoQH.
I forgot a couple things from my last post.
Back in January I finally got a CPAP for my sleep apnea and wear the mask pretty much everynight. I went from 20 some apneas an HOUR to one per NIGHT. That was pretty good. Honestly though, I can’t tell much of a difference when I wear it versus when I dont, but it keeps the girlfriend happy since I’m not snoring and Im sure it will be better in the long run. I dont take it with me when I travel for work and am sleeping alone though.
Ive also been giving blood somewhat regularly (well twice now) at the Red Cross to try and bring down my hemoglobin and heamtocrit. It tested at 18.5 last week before the donation, which was high (their cutoff is 19) but it was in the 17’s when I got a blood test done a month or so after my first draw so that seems to help at least temporarily. I notice a distinct drop off in erection quality in the few days afterwards, but it improves greatly within about a week so far.
Just a quick update while I’m thinking about this here…been meaning to do it for a while now but just now getting around to it.
Had my doctor appointment back in July. Most of my bloodwork ended up good. Total T was at the higher end of the range, with Free T just a bit over (at 200 mg/week). Doctor was mostly fine with this.
E2 was decent I think. DHT and others were good.
Quest didn’t send me the copy of my labs like they were supposed to so I don’t remember everything, but nothing stood out as concern. Im going to try and get ahold of them just to update my spreadsheet but nothing I am actually concerned about.
Cholesterol was still high, and HDL was still low so it appears the niacin did fuck all for it.
Recently started taking HCG (finally got my insurance to authorize it) and holy fucking shit–what a difference it has made. I thought my libidio and erections were pretty decent before, but nothing compares to this. It is like I am 16 again, honestly. This may just be a transient spike since I only started it about a week and a half ago, but even if I retain half of the spike I will be happy (and so will my girl!)
I’ve been taking 500 iu 3x/week just to get my production back up quickly. Ongoing dosing will be somewhere in the 150 iu 2-3x/week range based on symptoms.
Cranking up HCG 500 ius 3 times a week can cause a major estrogen imbalance. Keeping to what the Dr recommended will help replace the LH depleted from TRT
Good luck with the HCG, dude. As you know, it did nothing for me. Shit, if you were closer than DC I would have just given you the vial (had 5 weeks worth, left).
Did you check out that OTC sperm test? I did it, results game back good. I just dropped off a cup of my boys to Shady Grove for analysis yesterday. I’ll let you know if it comes back positive, or neg. That’ll at least tell us if those OTC tests are full of shit, or not.
Looks like you have the same issue, high cholesterol with low HDL.
Was anxious to see if that niacin helped. I think we were given these genetics and not much we do will change it. I have tried various things and the numbers never budged.
I can lower cholesterol if I leave out carbs but moving HDL has not worked. What’s the point in limiting carbs only to lose weight and strength.
I’ll keep an eye out what you try next to raise HDL good luck need something too.
[quote]KSman wrote:
I would go with the FT and perhaps add bio-T, just because most are not familiar with bio-T numbers. Note that bio-T and FT do track each other. Maybe your doc works with bio-T.
If Vit-D25 is low, you will take vit-D3. The level of vit-D3 might not be needed.
Doc may want to know what problems others in your family have such as diabetes and thyroid.
PSA detects prostate cancer and young men do not get that. PSA is neither an antigen or cancer specific. But useful just the same. Good to have a pre-TRT base line.
You would have been better off taking vit-D3 then have the test tell you something on top of the supplementation that almost all are needing.
Do you snore… tell the doc.
Sugar cravings, salt cravings, nails brittle
Adrenal and stress: the question was more of a concern about stress leaving you feeling beat-up or weak.
When did these problems start and did you have any blows to the head preceding that?
Do not get a DRE [digital rectal exam] before lab work [releases PSA]. No sex or masturbation prior to lab work as that can release prolactin. [/quote]
The psa test is no longer the recommended protocol for detecting prostate cancer. This is what i have read.
Both Adex and Aromasin have deleterious effects on CHOL.
[/quote]
What a pile of crap! You are looking at the effects from deep estrogen suppression and data from female cancer clinical data and body builders who are taking E2 to single digits. Using AI drugs to take E2 near the suggested E2=22pg/ml [modulation] does not cause the problems that you suggest; which makes sense as many normal young lean males are in that range. The side effect for anastrozole are not from the drug, but from low estrogen levels.
It is hard to educate all of the new guys who show up here. The statement that you made is damaging.
And we get guys who have doc’s who prescribe 1mg/day because that is what the product literature states; and that really causes problems. We can educate the new guys, but can’t fix the docs who read something and shoot from the hip.
Had the pleasure of reading this post from beginning to end sat morning. WOW, there is such great information in it, lots from what I think are the top contributors to the board and, the brutal honesty that VTB puts forth throughout the whole thing, amazing. I tip my hat to you sir.
Wanted to ask you a question about HCG, you mentioned that it really picked up your libido when you began using it, is that still the case a few months in ?
[quote]PKNY wrote:
Had the pleasure of reading this post from beginning to end sat morning. WOW, there is such great information in it, lots from what I think are the top contributors to the board and, the brutal honesty that VTB puts forth throughout the whole thing, amazing. I tip my hat to you sir.
Wanted to ask you a question about HCG, you mentioned that it really picked up your libido when you began using it, is that still the case a few months in ?
[/quote]
Thanks man…glad someone can find it useful.
As for the hcg, that was very transient. Things are pretty good now, but not great like they were. I actually have stopped taking my aromasin and haven’t had any in 2 weeks. Still doing 200 mg/week of test and 500 iu of HCG (both split into twice weekly doses on Monday/Thurseday). I actually feel great on this. Hoping it will last. Will reevaluate the need for the AI in another couple of weeks.
So you dropped your AI completely ?
I just started injections about six weeks ago, before that I was using Androgel mixed with Phlogel and no AI.
I ended up with a BB sized gyno lump under my right nipple. I am using Letro on it right now @ 1.25mg per day,
which is working, and the lump is almost completely dissipated. I feel the effect of low low E2, but its different than the low low E2 I have experienced with Adex and Aromasin. I still have some libido and can get it up, but cannot reach orgasm, and no joint pain.
I am thinking of using low dose Letro as my AI when the gyno has totally disappeared. Who knows, it may
just be the AI that keeps E2 in range, but doesn’t play games with libido.
[quote]PKNY wrote:
So you dropped your AI completely ?
I just started injections about six weeks ago, before that I was using Androgel mixed with Phlogel and no AI.
I ended up with a BB sized gyno lump under my right nipple. I am using Letro on it right now @ 1.25mg per day,
which is working, and the lump is almost completely dissipated. I feel the effect of low low E2, but its different than the low low E2 I have experienced with Adex and Aromasin. I still have some libido and can get it up, but cannot reach orgasm, and no joint pain.
I am thinking of using low dose Letro as my AI when the gyno has totally disappeared. Who knows, it may
just be the AI that keeps E2 in range, but doesn’t play games with libido.
[/quote]
Yeah dropped it completely. Haven’t used any in over 2 weeks now. Feeling fine.
I agree about the letro, although I’ve never used it. It seems that even with consistent E2 levels among the three, people exhibit different symptoms or lack thereof, leading me to conclude that there is more to play than just E2 levels and may be related to the products themselves. I know that I had drastically improved libido and sexual functioning with aromason over adex, even though my E2 levels were roughly the same using both.
JB, who does not come here any more, struggles with many things that work for others. He gets side effects from hCG and needs small amounts. He does not get the expected QOL benefits from anastrozole and struggles to find a balance with small doses, might be an over-responder. He reports that aromasin is way better for him. He reports a better mental state and libido.
With aromasin, one needs many mg’s per day or EOD vs 1mg/week for anastrozole. So costs are 5-10 times higher for research chems, not sure about Rx costs. And when one takes a much larger amount of a chemical, one would expect that the opportunity for side effects would be larger. And I have seen TRT newbies go after aromasin because of the “suicide inhibitor” hype and bro-science, and they found that they were not able to manage E2 effectively [just did not work]. That problem would seem to be something that only some would have.
So are these variations because of fundamental problem with the drugs? I don’t think so. I suspect that the issue is individual variations. The differences can be in how a drug is metabolized and cleared by the liver, excreted or spared by the kidneys, permeability of the blood-brain barrier for specific drugs and differences in aromatase structure or presentation. When we see a 4:1 difference in the effectiveness of anastrozole, one has to suspect that there are genetic differences, which can be changes in gene expression [epigenetic changes], or metabolism with the main focus been the aromatase enzyme or the liver. If some have a stronger AI effect in the brain than others, seeking a target serum E2 might push E2 too low in the brain, causing problems. There is a lot of aromatase in the brain and estrogens are neural steroids. There are many neural steroids that are created and used in the brain, as well as non-steroidal peptide hormones.
So a conclusion? Everyone is different. Sometimes things will be easy, other times not. If you feel great with anastrozole with its lesser costs and smaller chemical load on the body, use it. If you do not feel right, you can try aromasin. If you QOL is improved, the increased costs will be money well spent. If you do not feel that things are what they should be either way, one needs to consider that there may be issues beyond TRT. The most common example, quite common for those who end up here, is thyroid problems.
[quote]KSman wrote:
JB, who does not come here any more, struggles with many things that work for others. He gets side effects from hCG and needs small amounts. He does not get the expected QOL benefits from anastrozole and struggles to find a balance with small doses, might be an over-responder. He reports that aromasin is way better for him. He reports a better mental state and libido.
With aromasin, one needs many mg’s per day or EOD vs 1mg/week for anastrozole. So costs are 5-10 times higher for research chems, not sure about Rx costs. And when one takes a much larger amount of a chemical, one would expect that the opportunity for side effects would be larger. And I have seen TRT newbies go after aromasin because of the “suicide inhibitor” hype and bro-science, and they found that they were not able to manage E2 effectively [just did not work]. That problem would seem to be something that only some would have.
So are these variations because of fundamental problem with the drugs? I don’t think so. I suspect that the issue is individual variations. The differences can be in how a drug is metabolized and cleared by the liver, excreted or spared by the kidneys, permeability of the blood-brain barrier for specific drugs and differences in aromatase structure or presentation. When we see a 4:1 difference in the effectiveness of anastrozole, one has to suspect that there are genetic differences, which can be changes in gene expression [epigenetic changes], or metabolism with the main focus been the aromatase enzyme or the liver. If some have a stronger AI effect in the brain than others, seeking a target serum E2 might push E2 too low in the brain, causing problems. There is a lot of aromatase in the brain and estrogens are neural steroids. There are many neural steroids that are created and used in the brain, as well as non-steroidal peptide hormones.
So a conclusion? Everyone is different. Sometimes things will be easy, other times not. If you feel great with anastrozole with its lesser costs and smaller chemical load on the body, use it. If you do not feel right, you can try aromasin. If you QOL is improved, the increased costs will be money well spent. If you do not feel that things are what they should be either way, one needs to consider that there may be issues beyond TRT. The most common example, quite common for those who end up here, is thyroid problems.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure the costs of the aromasin and adex are comparable, even from research sites. The actual mg amount of the drug seems to have little bearing on the actual cost. Why that is I have no clue.
[quote]KSman wrote:
One ml of anastrozole lasts a week, 1ml of clomid lasts one or two days.[/quote]
What does that have to do with a discussion on anastrozole vs exemstane? Both are available at the standard dose on a mL basis (1 mg/mL for Adex 25 mg/mL for aromasin).
One can use 1 ml [dosing unit] of anastrozole per week, but multiple dosing units per week of aromasin. Many guys will have a 60ml bottle of 1mh/ml anastrozole last over one year. I am only pointing out that for those who can do well on either drug, one is a lot more cost effective.
[quote]KSman wrote:
I meant to say Aromasin, not clomid.
One can use 1 ml [dosing unit] of anastrozole per week, but multiple dosing units per week of aromasin. Many guys will have a 60ml bottle of 1mh/ml anastrozole last over one year. I am only pointing out that for those who can do well on either drug, one is a lot more cost effective.[/quote]
And I was pointing out that the multiple dosing units of aromasin is not needed because it is available in 25 mg/mL bottles, which is the same cost per mL as the anastrozole.
Hello and thank’s for being authentic. I recently have seen an endo.I can identify and agree.Most of these dr type’s really can’t and wont try to identify with us as people that take an interest in physical enhancement. WE as a aas using community actually utilize protocal’s they the medical profession are not aquainted with,or they feel are experimental and unless the protocal is a medical norm,they the physican’s rwefuse to cooperate. I understand you have concern’s in regard’s to testicular soarness?? Please follow-up on this ,asmuscles are the least of your worrie’s. As you know im a old school guy and have not used the new drug’s,or as much as the guy’s that came into the game with these drug’s already there. There is a lot of research on Anabolic steroid’s (testosterone derivitives) but the Ancilliary drug’s.These drug’s for starter’s are very $$ I.e. 60-1mg’s Arimedex is $365.00 at the drugstore.Clomid is $400.00 for 100-50mg’s pill’s. Brother not only is this stuff expensive who really know’s the side affect’s of the Ancilliarie’a,as these are drug’s primarily used to treat breast cancer. I respect you and am not trying too cause any miscommunication just one guy talking about our health to another.We are all in this for positive result’s and should care for each otnher. yours truly johnny
good luck need something too.