Bloodwork & TRT Cheatsheet

Pharma TRT
181

Very few pay those prices! So take that off of the table. Do not look at Arimidex, look at the generic anastrozole. Arimidex is off patent.

The primary use of a drug for treating estrogen positive mostly female cancers is not a concern. You are spooked and so are many/most doctors. But doctors do not think. What is your excuse.

Clomid does not reduce E2, same for all SERMs. Aromatase inhibitors do.

The issue is the side effects of elevated E2. AI’s eliminate those side effects. The AI’s are used to modulate E2 levels to obtain an optimal quality of life. The issue is not the side effects of the AI but the problems of not using an AI. The official listed side effects for the AI drugs are from the high dose use in women that pushes them into very deep estrogen deprecation and menopausal symptoms. Those are side effects of very low estrogen, not a direct effect of the drug. The AI drugs are quite free of side effects when used for E2 modulation in a TRT context. Yes, a few might do better with Aromasin VS anastrozole and it might not be an easy road to get there.

Read and learn about these things.

182

[quote]KSman wrote:
Very few pay those prices! So take that off of the table. Do not look at Arimidex, look at the generic anastrozole. Arimidex is off patent.

The primary use of a drug for treating estrogen positive mostly female cancers is not a concern. You are spooked and so are many/most doctors. But doctors do not think. What is your excuse.

Clomid does not reduce E2, same for all SERMs. Aromatase inhibitors do.

The issue is the side effects of elevated E2. AI’s eliminate those side effects. The AI’s are used to modulate E2 levels to obtain an optimal quality of life. The issue is not the side effects of the AI but the problems of not using an AI. The official listed side effects for the AI drugs are from the high dose use in women that pushes them into very deep estrogen deprecation and menopausal symptoms. Those are side effects of very low estrogen, not a direct effect of the drug. The AI drugs are quite free of side effects when used for E2 modulation in a TRT context. Yes, a few might do better with Aromasin VS anastrozole and it might not be an easy road to get there.

Read and learn about these things.[/quote]
My Friend.I didn’t just fall-off the truck.I am a Ex Jr.MrCanada. All the fuck i was saying is my personal experience.AS for Arimedex being off the patient.I don’t know,but it’s the brand name that i get,not some ugl’s knock-off possibly fake???Another thing people on trt/hrt don’t in most cases even need a drug to prevent aromatization @ 100mg’s i.m. a week. The people that require am aromataxe inhibitor are people at 500-2000mg’s a week.People that are in bodybuilding,not a man on psysiological doses of hormone replacement.Brother please don’t Cop an attitude as ive been in this game 30year’s and still learning.Moreover i never said clomid was an anti estrogen.It’s a motherfucking folicle stimulating hormone.Just because some irresponsible person will take the kitchen sink? to get some fat and water retention,doesant make it right,or healthy.One more thing those are the LEGAL PRICES in Canada for the drug’s mentioned. seeya john

183

Too vtBalla34. Hi Brother.Im sorry to hear about your medical situation.I wrote you a message of concern,but some other hi-jacker interrupted my message to you and gave his (Opinion) I was responding to you in a caring and concerned matter.your’s truly john kelly

184

Hey Johnny, you are crackin’ me up, lighten up a bit though, everyone learns from everyone here.

Hey VT, you still not taking your AI ? Any changes to report based on that ?

185

[quote]PKNY wrote:
Hey Johnny, you are crackin’ me up, lighten up a bit though, everyone learns from everyone here.

Hey VT, you still not taking your AI ? Any changes to report based on that ?

[/quote]

Yes your right.But some individual’s argue about the factual experiences of people that have Lived this Life,not just theoretically read a book.You know what i mean? Pkny my friend.The problem with the internet is it’s all theory,most of those guy’s can’t afford the drug’s in question.This bodybuilding is expensive minus the drug’s.Look at the food bill,it’s at $200.oo per week.Thank’s for your insight.john

186

Your experience is valuable, I know that you have great insight from years of training and AAS use.
What you know, helps myself and others to know more, and to piece the puzzle together for ourselves.
However, what works for you, may not for me, but the exchange of ideas and experiences is what makes
this forum a true hive of valuable information.
Cheers Brother !

187

Johnny: Thanks for stopping in man. I know we had our differences over in the Steroids forum, but you are a good guy and I appreciate your insight.

I am still off the AI and no issues to report from a well-being standpoint. Don’t wake up with morning wood, but seems to be no sexual issues.

The biggest issue at this point is that I have a TON of body acne. Not just actual pimples but even small little bumps on my shoulders, back, and arms that while not instantly visible are very noticeable if you run your hand over them. This doesn’t really bother me at this time of year since it is shirt weather, but the spring/summertime would not have be acceptable. Going to stay off the AI a while longer and see if anything changes and maybe my body resets or gets used to the hormone balance.

188

Interesting.

As a teen and young adult I had bad acne, face, neck, back. I took a lot of antibiotics, but it never fixed the problem.
It really didn’t stop until 34 or so, which when I look back was the beginning of my T decline.
Through TRT, I found that I have very low SHBG, my free T was pegged at 250% of normal while total T
was only in the low 300’s and my E2 was roughly double what it should have been.
Getting my E2 under control has helped my skin immensely. When I break out now I use nizoral shampoo on
my skin in the shower. Lather it up and let it sit for a few minutes, really helps.

You have any blood work coming up ?

189

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

The biggest issue at this point is that I have a TON of body acne. Not just actual pimples but even small little bumps on my shoulders, back, and arms that while not instantly visible are very noticeable if you run your hand over them. This doesn’t really bother me at this time of year since it is shirt weather, but the spring/summertime would not have be acceptable. Going to stay off the AI a while longer and see if anything changes and maybe my body resets or gets used to the hormone balance.[/quote]

Hmmm, wonder if you might have folliculitis? If that’s you in your avatar it appears that you shave your head as I do. I developed folliculitis after I started shaving my head. It started on the back of my neck and then spread slowly down my back and arms. Might be more prone to it being in the power lifting environment- i.e. getting sweaty around the weights, bars, benches, etc with all those staph germs lying around. Just a guess on my part but may be something to look into. Folliculitis - Wikipedia

190

I have had my body acne pick way up since getting on TRT a few months ago, about exactly like you describe VT with the bumps and sits on my shoulders and back. I’m on Doxicycline now and it is helping but I am going to add a prescription acne lotion to try to knock it out. I’ll have to check into the in nizoral shampoo. I know before my T was low when I was in good shape I had body acne as well, I think I’m just prone to it with healthy levels of T. Also, I think DxHypo is probably right about the sweating while training being part of the issue. Throughout my life whenever I train a lot my body breaks out worse.

191

Yeah I think I can disengage it from the training aspect though since I am training just like usual and the only changes I’ve made is dumping the AI and picking up the HCG…I was on TRT for a year with no issues whatsoever before those changes, so don’t think it is really a function of training.

I’m really not all that concerned about it honestly, since I’m an ugly mother fucker anyway. But maybe in the summertime I’ll look into some remedies

192

Hey VT, any update ?
I saw in another thread that you started using an RX version of Aromasin vs. the stuff from ADC.
You back on track, or still having issues ?

193

[quote]PKNY wrote:
Hey VT, any update ?
I saw in another thread that you started using an RX version of Aromasin vs. the stuff from ADC.
You back on track, or still having issues ?[/quote]

Yeah I got some bloodwork done earlier in Deccember and got my results back last night actually. I had picked back up on the Aromasin since I was having some problems with mood and irritability, as well as putting on a bit too much fat.

Once I picked back up the Aromasin, I lost almost 1% bodyfat with absolutely no diet changes and mood has improved considerably. I can safely say that my experiment without Aromasin is over–it is certainly necessary FOR ME while on TRT.

Quest test showed E2 at 38 (range <39) which was considerably higher than it has been on all my other tests (in the 20’s). And that was AFTER recommencing it for a few weeks, so who knows how high it was before that? Assuming the ADC A-sin wasn’t overdosed (unlikely) and the pharam A-sin is correctly dosed, it looks like HCG has spiked my E2 levels to a point where I would have to take more A-sin to combat it. I don’t want to do that so I am considering dumping the HCG. I don’t think I was getting any sustainable benefit from it anyway, after the first transient libido spike.

194

Been over a year since an update so it is probably time. Lots of changes over that time, but chief among them:

-I dumped the HCG sometime in December or January 2012/2013 I believe. It was basically useless for me. This is not surprising since my hypogonadism was primary and not secondary/tertiary. All it seemed to do was raise my E2

-Had back surgery in July 2013 and have had slow recovery from that which has impacted my training and motivation to eat cleanly. I am steadily improving from that but it has been frustrating. My weight has gotten to over 300 pounds and it is not all good weight.

-My doc lowered my T dose from 200 mg/week to 150 mg/week sometime in October 2013. There wasn’t a lot of explanation for this other than somewhat elevated Free T levels (my Total T was around the 75% of the range) and highish E2 (this was because he didn’t refill my Aromasin script for a while and I was out for 2-3 weeks). He also wanted me to switch to 3x/week dosing instead of 2x to keep I humored him and tried it.

-I also stopped taking an AI after that October appointment to see if I could get away without it.

-My Hemoglobin has been consistently high while on TRT and back in the fall I went to see a hematologist to see if it was a concern. He was fairly concerned and prescribed me phlebotomies after ruling out genetic mutations for JAK2 and EPO. I have had 3 or 4 now (can’t remember which) spaced a week apart and it seems my HgB is under control after those appointments. It’s been 3+ weeks now and it is still well below the ceiling he set for me (16 I believe) so that seems to have stabilized. I will be going back once a month to have it rechecked and drawn if necessary.

Had bloodwork done 1/20/14 and it all looks pretty decent. I have switched to Labcorp since their electronic delivery of results blows Quest’s out of the water.

Meds/Supplements (No supps past Saturday 1/18/14)
Testosterone: 150 mg/week (50 mg MWF). Last injection taken Friday 1/17/14
Aromasin: n/a
HCG: n/a
Fish Oil: 3-15 g/day per Shelby diet.
Glutamine: 10-15 g/day
Creatine: 5 g/day
Liquid Cialis: 6 mg/day (I can’t remember when i started this before or after the tests but it probably doesn’t matter. It works awesome!)

Also was taking HOT-ROX, Caffeine pills, Primrose Oil, Indigo occasionally, Elite Pro Mineral Support, and a multi vitamin. This was all part of the Shelby carb cycling diet that I was following at the time.

Total T: 821 ng/dL (348 - 1197)
Free T: 197 pg/mL (52 - 280)
*Bioavailable T: 562 ng/dL (128 - 430)
Estradiol: 29.5 pg/mL (7.6 - 42.6)

RBC: 5.2 x/uL (4.1 - 5.8)
Hemoglobin: 15.4 g/dL (12.6 - 17.7)
Hematocrit: 45.7 % (37.5 - 51)
Glucose: 97 mg/dL (65 - 99)

*Creatinine: 1.47 mg/dL (0.76 - 1.27)
*AST: 42 iu/L (0 - 40)
ALT: 37 iu/L (0 - 44)

Total Cholesterol: 172 mg/dL (100 - 199)
*HDL: 28 mg/dL (>39)
*LDL: 117 mg/dL (0 - 99)
TRIG: 133 mg/dL (0 - 149)

So there hasn’t been a lot of change in my T numbers despite moving from 200 to 150 mg/week. I was surprised by this but it seems to keep my levels steady. The lack of AI doesn’t seem to have effected my E2 levels too badly as they are still well within the range and inside of the recommendations that I usually see on the forums. I have gained about 10-15 pounds since dumping the AI and lowering the T dose though, but that is hard to correlate since it was also over the holidays and I began training again so I am eating a bit more. Bodyfat is high but does not seem to have skyrocketed.

RBC/HGB/HCT are all greatly improved and this makes my doctor happy. I enjoy having a less risk of stroke as well. If your red bloods are up there then you should really consider seeing a hematologist about it.

AST/ALT/Creatinine are usually on the high side but seem to have come down a bit. I think this is standard for weightlifters to see these elevated.

Lipids are improving as my Total CHOL has dropped quite a bit but HDL/LDL are still out of whack and TRIGs are on the high end of normal. I am going to continue eating a good diet to see if these improve over the next 6-8 months. I am against statins though so I am not really sure what I can do about these if they don’t improve on their own. They seem to be fucked up regardless of how good or poor my diet is.

Overall things are going very well. If I can get my back all healed up and get loosened back up I think I will see a lot of progress this year with what looks to be pretty good hormone levels.