Blood Work Results... Help!

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

My Stats:
49 yrs - 172 lbs- 5’9"
Weight train 3-5 days week. Run 10-15 miles per wk.

Taking:
10 mg adrogel daily (Last 2 yrs)
1 drop of adex daily.
25 mg dhea 2xday (Morning and eve)

Here are my latest lab results (6/26/08):
TT = 566 (range = 241-827)
FT = 9.8 (range = 6.8 - 21.5)
E2 = 25 ( range = 0-53)
DHEA = 444 (range = 107-745)
TSH = 4.334 (range = .350 - 5.5)
FSH = .3 (range = 1.4-18.1) LOW !!

I had labwork done 1 yr prior and it came back as follows:
TT = 950
FT= 14.3
E2 < 15 ( I had just starting taking A-dex here .5 mg eod)
DHEA = 606 ( I was only taking 25 mg per day as opposed to 50mg now)

So … my TT & FT have both gone Waaay down.
My DHEA has gone down, even though I increased the dose.
My FSH is in the dink.

I am feeling it … I felt MUCH better at the 950 level !

Is it possible I have stopped absorbing the A-gel ???
I am pretty sure my natural production is shutting down.

I am thinking about swithcing over to injections.
How much and what (Cyp/ eth) would I need to get back to the 950 level ???

I thank anyone who can lend some advice…as I have yet
to find a doc who knows whats going on.

Help …

Thanks !

2

Shutdown… that happened long ago! To be expected within two weeks.

Testing LH and FSH was a waste… Will be low - shutdown.

Initial results typically feel better, so some loss of that is normal.

Get a full thyroid panel. You probably have a problem with that and that will affect how you feel. If you get on thyroid meds, get Armour thyroid. Do not get onto a T3 or T4 only monotherapy. Do you eat sea food? Use idolized salt? [See salt has no useful amount of iodine unless it is added]. Test TSH, T4, FT4, FT3. Some guys on TRT with thyroid problems also find that there are adrenal issues as well.

Thyroid problems seem to always limit absorption of transdermals. So injections may very well work better for you.

3

I did test thyroid.
TSH = 4.334 (Range = .350-5.5)
I live n Florida … and eat plenty of sea food.

Which test is preferred, and how much for Injections ??

I think I read 100mg per week was good to get to around 900 TT level.

Is there a bid difference between Cyp or Eth ??

I ask a lot of questions, because I basically need to tell my Doc what I need and want.

Thanks for the input.

4

Test cyp and eth are interchangeable. Cyp is probably more mainstream and perhaps better priced.

Sam’s Club business members and all Costco members can get test cyp cheap. 10ml, 200mg/ml test cyp $42 at Sam’s.

Get needles from Sam’s or Walmart by the 100’s.

Yes to 100mg

250iu hCG SC EOD

Control E2 to be in lower 20’s [0-53pg/ml]. This is done with Arimidex/anastrozole, typical starting dose is 1mg/wk in divided doses.

You need to be self injecting. Inject 50mg twice a week. Some inject 28mg EOD. Don’t expect your doc to have a clue about this. I inject EOD with #29 .5ml .5" insulin syringes, as do some others here.

You do not want 200mg injections at the doctor’s office every two weeks!!!

5

Thanks Ksman. I really appreciate the help.
Do you “cycle” the HCG or do you run it all the time ?

I thought Test-Prop was EOD and the longer acting ones like Eth and Cyp require less frequency.

Are there a lot of swings when stretched out, or is twice a week a good dosing to maintain consistent levels on cyp ?

I think I am ready to take the plunge and get off the gel !

6

[quote]sxracer wrote:
Thanks Ksman. I really appreciate the help.
Do you “cycle” the HCG or do you run it all the time ?

I thought Test-Prop was EOD and the longer acting ones like Eth and Cyp require less frequency.

Are there a lot of swings when stretched out, or is twice a week a good dosing to maintain consistent levels on cyp ?

I think I am ready to take the plunge and get off the gel ![/quote]

hCG is all the time. Young males have a constant supply, you need that too.

I don’t worry about the half-life of the different T esters as I do inject often. I don’t even know if prop is prescribed in the USA. For weekly injections, prop seems to be less of a roller coaster, but again, I have not looked into prop.

When injecting more often, you get the overlapping release curves of multiple injection deposits. With EOD injections, there is a number of deposits that are active. These even things out and T spikes are quite reduced. Frequent injections are not for everyone. This is unconventional and is and I talk it up as an option to be considered.

There is then the issue of longer half-life esters versus injecting more often.

7

Your TSH is over 4.0. Your body is craving Thyroid, and not producing it which causes the gel to not be absorbed just like KSman says.
Your doctor is missing the point. Shots are now your best bet if you actually want the T to be absorbed.

8

Huh … what do you mean by “Craving” thyroid ???
Is this a whole other condition unrelated to A-gel over the last 2 yrs, or is this a result of it ???

How do you “produce” thyroid, and can it be supplemented ?

THanks for the education. I wish my Doc was as smart as you guys !

9

After doing some reading …I may have found a contributor to the problem.

A couple of weeks ago my wife switched over the household diet from cow to soy milk !

I have been drinking this stuff for the last 3-4 weeks.

I read that it is NOT good for TSH.

Back to Elsie for me !

10

[quote]sxracer wrote:
After doing some reading …I may have found a contributor to the problem.

A couple of weeks ago my wife switched over the household diet from cow to soy milk !

I have been drinking this stuff for the last 3-4 weeks.

I read that it is NOT good for TSH.

Back to Elsie for me ![/quote]

It cannot be that simple… thyroid levels require further investigation.

11

sxracer: My TSH was also high after a couple years on TRT. Ask about getting Armour Thyroid.

Soy Milk is not doing you any favors either.

12

Biddwag, were you using gel or shots ???

Did the armour get things cleared up ??

How you feel on that stuff ??

13

Hey guys is there a serious problem for someone who has normal all these hormones below? Check this out: TT levels (410), FT, LH, FSH, SHBG, E2, PRL but above normal E1 (estrone > 1.8 with high normal level: 1.5). Thanks.

14

Normal can include levels that have pathologies.

Please include numbers.

There can be different estrogens in proportion to E2. These levels can be from differences in the ability to clear these metabolites or the way E2 metabolizes to one metabolite or another.

Bad flora in the gut can make some metabolites be reabsorbed.