So I started out doing 250mg week and needed very little AI 1/10 week to keep my estrogen in check but then the last 3 months switched to 50mg 2x week (100mg week) and added in 250iu of hcg 2x week This got me the following figures having a really hard time dialing in estrogen now though, was <5 2 weeks ago and now already 43(max 42) again after no ai for 2 weeks, would love some help thanks.
Total Test 810ng/dl
Free Test (Fti%) 131.36 (23.3-103)
SHBG 21.4 (17.3-65.8)
E2 43.72(7.6-42.6)
Tsh 5.39
DHEA 3.19 (0.5-3.5)
Progesterone 0.287 (0-2)
Tsh is also high but waking temps are 36 - 36.2 and 2pm temps around 36.7 so guessing it is high due to the high estrogen.
Any symptoms from e2?
Just because lab shows that if you get no high e2 sides then usually it’s fine.
Ratio has something to do with it. So if your total t was 500 yeah ur e2 would be high.
Imo you can lower dosage more since your free t is over. This will help lower e2 without an AI. I do 44 mg 2x a week no AI. E2 sensitive in mid 30s. But I take no HCG that can increase e2
Then wait 6 weeks and recheck. I would do full thyroid panel that includes free t3 and thyroid antibodies
yeah My thyroid goes to crap when my e2 goes out of range and erections are there when i want them but when in range they are there much more and I feel much better. maybe lower to 40mg 2x week? But I think it is the HCG that is skyrocketing my E2 not the test as when i was doing 250mg week and no hcg i hardly needed any ai at all and I was only injecting 1x a week then.
Do you think the fact that I inject hcg and test on the same day 2x a week makes a difference? Yeah I will do a full thyroid panel next week but when my e2 is in check my tsh is normally around 2.
I assume u need HCG for fertility or you can stop.
Idk if it will make a difference if u inject HCG on different days.
80 a week is a good try. I do between 80-90. My t is just under 700 on trough. Free t is good.
Maybe you can do 200 of HCG 2xa week. Instead of 250. I read it varies what guys inject to maintain fertility or functioning testes. On the other hand the are guys who are shut down for years restart and have a baby. But it’s risky.
Whatever change you make stick with it for at least 6 weeks.
An EOD protocol would be even better, estrogen would be more controlled and testosterone more stable. I would do 20-25mg EOD, no AI.
My shbg was in 20s too. After injecting for a few months and being “dialed” in it was in the 30s. I inject 2x a week.
I did think about that systemlord but like I said when on 250mg 1x week i hardly needed any ai and now on 100mg week split into 2 x 50mg injections i shouldn’t need any ai at all in theory. The only real change is the 2 x 250iu hcg injections that seem to send my e2 through the roof, and yeah need to stay on hcg for not only fertility but also penis sensitivity without it used to take 40-50 minutes to orgasm lol.
Would splitting the HCG into more doses lower the e2 conversion maybe eod at 150IU?
Are you having any symptoms of elevated E2? Increased E2 can be a problem for some taking hCG.
yeah definitely having high e2 symptoms otherwise would have stopped the hcg by now, Yeah i am thinking of something like eod lower dose and not on days i inject T what do you guys think?
I currently do the hcg same days as i do test and wonder if this is the reason for the high e2, maybe i should wait 24-36 hrs before doing the hcg?
You meant stop the AI, correct? The way I see it you have two options:
- Adjust dosages and frequency until you find out what works for you. In that case I would start with three, 175IU hCG injections per week and two 50mg per week, taken on non hCG injection days. Or,
- Continue as you are, but increase the AI.
What are your high e2 symptoms?
It’s only been 2 weeks!!! You need to give your body time to stabilize off the arimidex. Going from <5 to 43 in 2 weeks could literally be e2 rebound. Unless you feel lumps under your nipples I would stay the course and give it at least 4 to 5 weeks. After that time do a sensitive e2 test right before your next injection. Based on those lab results you can make adjustments that are informed and educated. 43 is not crazy high and your body may down regulate if you give it time. Your ECLIA e2 test may not even be accurate. It is for some and congratulations to them but for other men eclia overstates actual e2 levels and leads to this roller coaster ride.
“Our data also show that the concentrations of estradiol, both total and free, are significantly lower when measured by LC-MS/MS. They also show that the immunoassay’s measurements are probably inaccurate.”
“In conclusion, our findings suggest interference in the standard immunoassay-based E2 analyses, possibly by CRP or a CRP-associated factor. Although this interference does not seem to affect association studies between immunoassay E2 levels and skeletal parameters, we propose a reevaluation of previous association studies between immunoassay-based E2 levels and inflammation-related outcomes. In addition, MS-based assays are to be preferred for the quantification of E2 levels in men.”
Well I don’t live in america or a place with the sensitive e2 test and honestly I find the normal E2 test to be somewhat reliable when combined with symptoms. My TSH starts to increase fairly fast once my e2 goes high and i find it very hard to fall asleep, erections are nowhere near as good and i start to feel tired. I have a feeling I am one of those people that are over reactive to Arimidex and Hcg and also when my e2 is not in the good range of 20-30 i start to get symptoms fairly fast. Last time i was at 42 my upper back and shoulders broke out with a CRAZY amount of pimples and they already have started to get worse again.
I think i will add in 1/14th mg of arimidex 2x a week again maybe the day after t injections and inject hcg the day after t injections as well and see how that goes. I am in a place where it costs $5 to get estrogen checked right now and $30-40 to get all my thyroid tests done so would love to get it fixed and sorted while i am here for the next 3 weeks.
Based on your comments I did some searching. I was not aware of the fact that elevated e2 levels are associated with elevated tsh. I found plenty of evidence stating this and I find that very interesting due to the fact we see so many men on this forum with elevated tsh. I’m going to keep that in mind. As far as e2 sensitive… if you cant get it you cant get it. I just wanted to make sure you are aware that it has been documented as being far more accurate than eclia. Do what you must I hate seeing people on these roller coaster rides.
That’s why we all know e2= 22 as target was not wise . And TSH close to 1 while on trt is not wise.
Depending on when you take labs my TSH has fluctuated from 1.5 -3.5.
I’ve seen so many people doing iodine replenishment and blah blah blah based on this tsh number. It just surprises me that it can be so heavily influenced by e2. My question is if e2 causes your tsh to be elevated I’m guessing you still suffer the negative effects of hypothyroidism? Fatigue? Cold sensitivity? Ect ect. My E2 is most likely elevated right now and I cant say I’m experiencing any of that.
I think it may affect TSH but not so much free t3 if you get what am saying. Complicated shit.
TSH going up means it’s kicking out more and free t3 could be fine cause TSH is a bit higher.
I also believe total t and free t impacts tsh but I don’t know how.