Blood Results After Pregnenolone

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

I started supplementing pregnenolone cream at 50mg/ml as my dhea was low as well as other hormones, but when supplementing with dhea, my dhea levels went up but E2 went sky high as in 54 and pre arimidex and no dhea E2 was 39.
Pre pregnenolone levels/ but on arimidex 1/2mg twice a week
Total T 20.8 (10-33)
Free T 41.5 (60-130)
E2 32
dhea 2.1 (2.2-15.5)

5 weeks of preg cream 50mg and arimidex 1/2mg 3 times a week
Total T 27.8
Free T 53.2
E2 30
dhea 2.9??? 1070 ng/ml (800-5100) not sure of dhea convertion to si units(please correct if im wrong)

I actually thought pregnenolone would have increased my dhea alot more and suprised it increased my T levels as high as they did. My doc said no TRT as total T is very high even though free T is still low but he said it might be because of other meds im on(antiviral meds for chronic viral infections ebv/cmv plus other meds) would effect free T conversion in the liver so have to look into other meds im on and see what i can change. My E2 has come down but is E2 a good level?, i believe others aim for alot lower. I need to get my dhea levels higher so looking at increasing pregnenolone abit higher and see if dhea go’s higher and maybe free T, maybe just add a very low dose of dhea like 10mg.

Symptom wise i have noticed an increase in energy, ive lost some weight from my waist and some joint pain has eased. Maybe as the weight comes off my E2 might come down as well. Sex drive has increased abit too.

Any other opinions greatly appreciated,

cheers!!!

2

what are the units and ranges for the E2 test results?

what other supplements/vitamins/medications are you taking?

some people can’t absorb transdermal medications.
some people (like me and you) react strongly to external DHEA.
some people need a lot more pregnenolone then can be absorbed (or higher doses like 300mg/ml)
some people do better on lipid matrix micronized pregnenolone pills (bypasses the first pass through the liver).
some people just need to boost their CHOL to increase their preg.

there is a blood test for pregnenolone levels.
also are you testing DHEA or DHEA-S? DHEA varies too much moment to moment. DHEA-S provides a more stable accurate reading.

3

E2 im coverting it to american numbers so 30 was 111, ranges give are 40-250, ksman said to divide by 3.7 to get the reading u guys are use to seeing. I have heard E2 should be around the 90s and im already taking 1/2mg of arimidex 3 times a week which from what i have read is high for someone not on Testosterone.

As for medications im on antiviral meds and tramal for chronic arthritic back pain, and sleep meds. I use NAC and lipoic acid to help the liver, my liver function tests have always come back good, but doc said that freeT convertion happens in the liver so this maybe why its low and why my total T is so high, i was suprised how pregnenolone increased my total T levels. I must be absorbing the preg cream if its effecting my total T, just not boosting dhea levels alot. I have just found a place in australia that does a blood test for pregnenolone and my doc is going to send out forms for me, thanks to the person on here who told me about it, cheers!!

DHea testing is dheaS, and my cholestrol doesnt need boosting, it needs nudging in the other direction which i have been with non flush niacin and its been working well.

In the past when i have used dhea it was a pill, would i get a better result if i used a transdermal cream as its absorbed slower and not pushed into estrogen, maybe, and also use a lower dose like 10mg??? Also does nettle root really help increase freeT, is it worth me trying it? anyone had actual experience with it?

cheers!!!

4

The more I learn and experiment about E2, the more I am convinced that it is mostly unmanageable through Arimidex unless you are on TRT…There is a good discussion about E2 and Testosterone over at MuscleChatRoom (or whatever Dr. Crisler’s forum is called)…I think it is under “Hormones 101”

This is just a single data point and the result of my own reading, but in June, I had labwork that confirmed highish E2 (possibly wrong test type though) and lowish T (around 48 and 375, respectively)…began taking Arimidex at 0.5 mg/week and Total T increased to 550ish and E2 dropped to 30 (correct test) within a month…I was on no other medications at the time…

Since the E2 tests were different types of tests, I’m not convinced that the E2 results were actually lowered, though they could have been…regardless, my TT did rise indisputably…

In response to that test, I increased my Arimidex dose to around 0.7 mg/week (current dose * current E2 / desired E2) and tested E2 again 3 months later…low and behold, E2 had barely changed (29)!!! TT had again risen, this time to 630!!

So to recap, Arimidex seems to have had a positive impact on my Total T values, but as far as managing my E2:
a. does not do anything for my serum E2 levels at all
b. does not do anything for my serum E2 levels other than bring me down from a high E2 to a manageable E2

I theorize that this is due to natural feedback…the Arimidex temporarily lowers my E2, triggering a response in the body to increase TT in which to aromatize into more E2 for a net gain of >TT and E2=0…

I think the body probably has a natural set point for E2, and mine appears to be around 30…I am not willing to run a high dose arimidex to further experiment, but I will be stopping my current arimidex plan after my upcoming bloodwork in an attempt to get off my meds…

Now that I’ve bored you with that long diatribe, I think the following portions are germane to your situation:
-Your rise in T could be attributed to your 50% increase in arimidex dose and body’s natural response
-Your pregnenolone may not be being absorbed…this seems to be supported by your relatively minor change in DHEA (which could have risen solely to higher T levels)
-Your E2 barely changed due to 50% increase in armidex…nautral set point = 30 for your body???

Keep in mind this is all in terms of NON-TRT context
Those that are on TRT can manage E2 since their body is lacking the feedback mechanism to increase TT in response to temporarily lowered E2…this does not appear to ring true for non-TRT guys…

5

mmm interesting, i know purechance said it but u phrased it differently about absorption, so maybe. But have noticed an energy increase from taking preg and when missed a day have noticed a difference, but thats only 1 day, so could have been having a crap day too. Arimidex doesnt seem to lower my E2 that much from the start anyway, originally was 39 then dropped to 32 with 1/2mg twice a week and then 30 with extra 1/2mg a week. When i first started arimidex my total and freeT actually dropped slightly, i was expecting an increase in freeT but ??. Another thought on absorption, i initially had a cream which was a combo of dhea/preg and first few days were great, lots of energy etc but then just got to edgy, couldnt sleep, tried reducing the dose but same thing happens, but once a week i might use a small amount which would have about 12.5mg of dhea/preg and then apply my normal 50mg preg and it gives me a good boost for the day, so i seem to be absorbing the cream. U would think if preg was increasing T that dhea would go up as well unless T can increase through progesterone pathways.

I think your right with the natural set point for E2, maybe with the extra energy and body temp increase/thyroid function(thyroid tests always good but cortisol low normal) and losing abit more weight, my E2 could come down abit lower. Without changing anything other then arimidex and preg, the old guts has shrunk some, hopefully it keeps shrinking. Interesting how others can have such different reactions to meds/supplements etc

Thanks for replying guys, its good to think it out a loud, its given me more to think about.

Any thoughts on nettle root for freeT??

Cheers!!!

6

Preg conversion to DHEA is rate limited and DHEA levels will not spike. DHEA orally will create a spike and it appears that some react by creating inappropriate levels of E2. Some T and E2 production occurs in the adrenals, but that is usually minor.

VTB: You are reacting very well to the anastrozole, in the fashion of someone taking near 1mg/day. In that context, your response is good. Increased LH is increasing T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot, as a competitive drug, control T–>E2 inside the testes, only in peripheral tissues. Find a recent addition to the estradiol sticky for more discussion of that. I suspect that you are an anastrozole over-responder.

7

[quote]KSman wrote:
VTB: You are reacting very well to the anastrozole, in the fashion of someone taking near 1mg/day. In that context, your response is good. Increased LH is increasing T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot, as a competitive drug, control T–>E2 inside the testes, only in peripheral tissues. Find a recent addition to the estradiol sticky for more discussion of that. I suspect that you are an anastrozole over-responder.[/quote]

I just went and read that stickey…it is interesting and seems to support what I suspect…it would be interesting to see response to a much higher level of anastrozole, to see if E2 bottoms out or changes at all, but not worth the risk for me at the moment…

I don’t believe I’m an over responder…I started feeling about the way I would expect when I started arimidex, and didn’t see a huge change when I upped the dose…the only problem I seem to be having is erection quality (libido aka ‘desire’ is no issue at all) and I think this could be tied to my thyroid metabolism, which I hope to address now that my cortisol issues seem to be under control…

My theory is just that the anastrozole nudged my boys to up their game and start pumping out the levels of test that I had before I crashed…this was aided by supporting my cortisol production with hydrocortisone and now pregenolone…

8

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
VTB: You are reacting very well to the anastrozole, in the fashion of someone taking near 1mg/day. In that context, your response is good. Increased LH is increasing T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot, as a competitive drug, control T–>E2 inside the testes, only in peripheral tissues. Find a recent addition to the estradiol sticky for more discussion of that. I suspect that you are an anastrozole over-responder.[/quote]

I just went and read that stickey…it is interesting and seems to support what I suspect…it would be interesting to see response to a much higher level of anastrozole, to see if E2 bottoms out or changes at all, but not worth the risk for me at the moment…

I don’t believe I’m an over responder…I started feeling about the way I would expect when I started arimidex, and didn’t see a huge change when I upped the dose…the only problem I seem to be having is erection quality (libido aka ‘desire’ is no issue at all) and I think this could be tied to my thyroid metabolism, which I hope to address now that my cortisol issues seem to be under control…

My theory is just that the anastrozole nudged my boys to up their game and start pumping out the levels of test that I had before I crashed…this was aided by supporting my cortisol production with hydrocortisone and now pregenolone…[/quote]

I forgot to mention that somewhat contradictory to the increased LH–>T–>E2 theory is that my LH has actually dropped since starting E2…It had been roughly 2-3 units above range in the preceding blood tests, but had fallen to normal range (albeit still on the high end) in my latest test…this could be a single anomaly but I doubt it…

I think what happened is my body had been pumping out high LH in order to restore my body to its preset testosterone level (before I crashed) but the boys just were not responding to the demands…now that things are getting back in order from either the testicular ‘nudging’ from the Arimdex or the increased cortisol, my hypothalmus is cooling off on pumping out the LH wake-up signal…

9

hi VT,
your not on Testosterone yet?? it seems theres alot of guys who have hormones problems but are producing plenty of T, just too much E2 and not enough freeT as well as cortisol, dhea etc out of whack.

I must say my sleep is pretty fucked up(for years), but dont know if this is due to my whacky hormones or my chronic viral infections from inflammatory cytokines etc or combination. I have tried almost every drug under the sun for sleep, tolerance comes on quickly so swapping and changing regularly. had sleep study done and ruled out sleep apnea and movement disorders etc and found i dont reach deep stage 4 sleep.Im hoping getting these hormones sorted will help correct my sleep. I wish i could go back to the 80s where i could buy GHB from the health food shop for less then $10 a bottle, they now have a prescriptions version called xyrem and it costs thousands of dollars a month and hard to get scripts for, or inject GH which isnt much cheaper.