Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

Off Topic
261

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
That being said, I hope he DOES do time. I’m just responding because I thought it was silly how quickly everyone pulled the race card here – not just against Zimmerman but the PD, as well.[/quote]

From your link:

Benjamin Crump, the Martin familyâ??s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martinâ??s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, â??they always get away.â??

I will maintain that this was a racially charged attack and believe that the 911 recordings will prove that. Hopefully those recordings are released shortly.[/quote]

Thanks for that, Beefy! Hopefully the will be released.

262

263

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
I have a hard time believing a guy just walked up and shot a kid because he was black. [/quote]

Really?

History shows time and again that prejudice often drums up false infractions so that “justice” can be carried out via vigilantism.

The lynchings in America are proof of this. [/quote]

I’m not saying his race played no part in it, it’s very possible he only decided to follow the kid because he was black. What I am saying is I don’t think he walked up and murdered him in “I’m gonna shoot me a darkie” cold blood. I think both of them probably played a part in escalating the confrontation.

264

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
That being said, I hope he DOES do time. I’m just responding because I thought it was silly how quickly everyone pulled the race card here – not just against Zimmerman but the PD, as well.[/quote]

From your link:

Benjamin Crump, the Martin familyâ??s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martinâ??s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, â??they always get away.â??

I will maintain that this was a racially charged attack and believe that the 911 recordings will prove that. Hopefully those recordings are released shortly.[/quote]

Good call. I missed that.

Of course, if he was describing the physical appearance to let the police know who to look for it’s a different story.

265

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
That being said, I hope he DOES do time. I’m just responding because I thought it was silly how quickly everyone pulled the race card here – not just against Zimmerman but the PD, as well.[/quote]

From your link:

Benjamin Crump, the Martin family�¢??s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martin�¢??s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, �¢??they always get away.�¢??

I will maintain that this was a racially charged attack and believe that the 911 recordings will prove that. Hopefully those recordings are released shortly.[/quote]

Of course, if he was describing the physical appearance to let the police know who to look for it’s a different story.[/quote]
x2, he would’ve been asked for a physical description. This doesn’t necessarily mean “they always get away with it” pertains to race either.

“They” could be criminals in general, teenagers in general or any number of things. Hearing the call in context would be helpful, there still isn’t enough evidence to jump the racist bandwagon.

266

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Hearing the call in context would be helpful, there still isn’t enough evidence to jump the racist bandwagon. [/quote]

That was pretty much the point you and I were trying to make from the beginning, I think.

267

Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?

268

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

My dad is from Watts. It is a fairly not so good neighborhood in Los Angeles, California. As a kid I hated going to visit relatives. I was harassed and pushed around being a little blonde white girl in a predominantly black neighborhood. And that was just the tip of what they would call me. But then again I suppose if you look at it the other way, I was an outsider and all that happened was a lot of ugly words and some pushing and hair pulling.

Just actually am now thinking about that.

[/quote]

I’m not making light of your situation…but I grew up going to mostly white schools and even a mostly white church when I was a kid and worse stories about both…especially at church.

That’s not a “black vs white” thing. That is a “that kid is different than us” thing…and that has no specific color and never did.
[/quote]

Okay,. … I get what you are saying, but my mom was from Detroit so I spent a lot of time there. I was not treated the same. I was not assaulted or yelled at for walking down the street and Detroit had a high minority population. I was the outsider there also. So what was the difference?
Is it the economics? or is it being the outsider?

and again, not the point of this thread.

269

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Hearing the call in context would be helpful, there still isn’t enough evidence to jump the racist bandwagon. [/quote]

That was pretty much the point you and I were trying to make from the beginning, I think.[/quote]
Yes indeed.

What always happens when original points can’t be refuted with information at hand but people are still emotional, still want to be “right” and may have a personal dislike of a correct poster is that the thread will get derailed, bullshit will start flying and the conversation will turn and twist however people think they can manipulate it to their personal point of view.

Riding the indignant wave is fun though. Keeps me coming back anyways.

270

[quote]BDSLift wrote:
Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?[/quote]
No, you don’t know why. The proper authorities have heard why, allegedly, and are investigating. Big difference.

271

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

My dad is from Watts. It is a fairly not so good neighborhood in Los Angeles, California. As a kid I hated going to visit relatives. I was harassed and pushed around being a little blonde white girl in a predominantly black neighborhood. And that was just the tip of what they would call me. But then again I suppose if you look at it the other way, I was an outsider and all that happened was a lot of ugly words and some pushing and hair pulling.

Just actually am now thinking about that.

[/quote]

I’m not making light of your situation…but I grew up going to mostly white schools and even a mostly white church when I was a kid and worse stories about both…especially at church.

That’s not a “black vs white” thing. That is a “that kid is different than us” thing…and that has no specific color and never did.
[/quote]

Okay,. … I get what you are saying, but my mom was from Detroit so I spent a lot of time there. I was not treated the same. I was not assaulted or yelled at for walking down the street and Detroit had a high minority population. I was the outsider there also. So what was the difference?
Is it the economics? or is it being the outsider?

and again, not the point of this thread.

[/quote]

Its both.
Poor areas that also have High Crime rates and a large population of people of the same ethnic background, white, Black, latino, Asian. Will not be so friendly to those that they see as outsiders.

I have been to very poor parts of the south and I was treated like family by strangers. 50 miles in another direction same types of people I was treated like I had crack rocks in every pocket.

272

^ I have seen data showing in some cities crime rates between the “good” wealthy areas and “bad” poor areas are not all that different except the bad areas get air time on the news. I am not saying it is true for all areas. I believe the paper was about the town of Syracuse. I have a feeling it is more common than we might be lead to believe.

I have found rich kids with good lawyers can be quiet dangerous.

273

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:
Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?[/quote]
No, you don’t know why. The proper authorities have heard why, allegedly, and are investigating. Big difference.[/quote]

Well let’s be honest. That is a Guess. We don’t know what the proper authorities heard. Let’s not pretend that the police never made mistakes.

274

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
That being said, I hope he DOES do time. I’m just responding because I thought it was silly how quickly everyone pulled the race card here – not just against Zimmerman but the PD, as well.[/quote]

From your link:

Benjamin Crump, the Martin familyâ??s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martinâ??s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, â??they always get away.â??

I will maintain that this was a racially charged attack and believe that the 911 recordings will prove that. Hopefully those recordings are released shortly.[/quote]

I can understand that the family is upset and want answers. But what exactly do you think is going to be achieved by getting those recordings released soon? Are they going to release the tapes to CNN, FOX News, the Huffing post etc… ?

For the sake of argument lets suppose the 911 recording is damning. If there is a trial in a court of law (instead of the court of public opinion) one of the first steps will be selecting a jury. The defense will be able to ask prospective jurors what they know about the 911 audio, then they will ask “what is your opinion on it?”. One of the few pieces of evidence could be seriously undermined because the defense will be able to screen for jurors who aren’t influenced by it.

275

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I can understand that the family is upset and want answers. But what exactly do you think is going to be achieved by getting those recordings released soon? Are they going to release the tapes to CNN, FOX News, the Huffing post etc… ?

For the sake of argument lets suppose the 911 recording is damning. If there is a trial in a court of law (instead of the court of public opinion) one of the first steps will be selecting a jury. The defense will be able to ask prospective jurors what they know about the 911 audio, then they will ask “what is your opinion on it?”. One of the few pieces of evidence could be seriously undermined because the defense will be able to screen for jurors who aren’t influenced by it. [/quote]

You mistake my intentions. I do not necessarily want them released to the public, but the family has requested them. It is to them that I hope the recording is released soon. I am sure we will all hear them in good time, but I agree anything that would potentially jeopardize any legal proceedings is not worth it. Hopefully the family and their attorney realize this.

276

[quote]BDSLift wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:
Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?[/quote]
No, you don’t know why. The proper authorities have heard why, allegedly, and are investigating. Big difference.[/quote]

Well let’s be honest. That is a Guess. We don’t know what the proper authorities heard. Let’s not pretend that the police never made mistakes.

[/quote]
And sent innocent people through the justice system to be incarcerated.

277

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:
Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?[/quote]
No, you don’t know why. The proper authorities have heard why, allegedly, and are investigating. Big difference.[/quote]

Well let’s be honest. That is a Guess. We don’t know what the proper authorities heard. Let’s not pretend that the police never made mistakes.

[/quote]
And sent innocent people through the justice system to be incarcerated.[/quote]

And Murders Unsolved.

278

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
^ I have seen data showing in some cities crime rates between the “good” wealthy areas and “bad” poor areas are not all that different except the bad areas get air time on the news. I am not saying it is true for all areas. I believe the paper was about the town of Syracuse. I have a feeling it is more common than we might be lead to believe.

I have found rich kids with good lawyers can be quiet dangerous.[/quote]
I make no secret of the fact I came from a very comfortable area (come at me, readers) and I would agree.

Across the district we had working class schools, solidly middle class and upper middle class schools fed by, gasp, gated communities. Real ones, not townhomes.

Kids were kids across the board but district crime stats showed more crime at the upper middle schools although most cases just disappeared.

Kids had more time and resources to get in trouble. Pretty typical for dad to be gone on business a lot, mom to have a loose grip on the household alone at best, kids had cars, significant allowance and in some cases jobs, but cool jobs set up by neighborhood networking and not sacking groceries or some shit.

I remember this one guy would go down to Mexico monthly, under the guise of a S. Padre beach weekend, and come back with steroids, “bars” and other popular drugs of the day and set up shop (pre cartel violence)

Some kids got involved with Houston dealers, not realizing what they were doing and actually got shot, assassination style right outside their gates. It was surreal news.

Anyways, lots of drug, DWI, and similar arrests but usually nothing stuck, at all.

Across town kids were getting arrested, building records and will never “come up” because of it. Money is a powerful thing for sure.

/rant

279

[quote]BDSLift wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]BDSLift wrote:
Dead unarmed kid (with no history of violence or any criminal background)

Shooter is walking free

Family is pissed off.

What we don’t know and I would like to know is if he did have injuries did anyone document them with pictures did any medical offical check him over to see if He or the Dead kid had injuries matching a fight. Because all we have is the cops saying the guys back was wet and he had some blood on his face.

At this point I no longer care what color either party was. A kid was shot and no one knows why?[/quote]
No, you don’t know why. The proper authorities have heard why, allegedly, and are investigating. Big difference.[/quote]

Well let’s be honest. That is a Guess. We don’t know what the proper authorities heard. Let’s not pretend that the police never made mistakes.

[/quote]
And sent innocent people through the justice system to be incarcerated.[/quote]

And Murders Unsolved.
[/quote]
This is not a mystery, a legal determination will be made.

280

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I can understand that the family is upset and want answers. But what exactly do you think is going to be achieved by getting those recordings released soon? Are they going to release the tapes to CNN, FOX News, the Huffing post etc… ?

For the sake of argument lets suppose the 911 recording is damning. If there is a trial in a court of law (instead of the court of public opinion) one of the first steps will be selecting a jury. The defense will be able to ask prospective jurors what they know about the 911 audio, then they will ask “what is your opinion on it?”. One of the few pieces of evidence could be seriously undermined because the defense will be able to screen for jurors who aren’t influenced by it. [/quote]

You mistake my intentions. I do not necessarily want them released to the public, but the family has requested them. It is to them that I hope the recording is released soon. I am sure we will all hear them in good time, but I agree anything that would potentially jeopardize any legal proceedings is not worth it. Hopefully the family and their attorney realize this.[/quote]

Even then, if the father is all over the news giving his opinion of the recording it isn’t going to help him. This is like a high stakes game of poker. You play your cards close to your chest and don’t let the other player into your hand. The less said the better.

I have a hunch there is not a lot of evidence other than witness statements, so this is not going to be an easy case to prosecute. The police, the coroner are going to have to carefully gather all the evidence analyze it thoroughly, consult with the prosecutor, etc… All that takes time.

Meanwhile the family is distraught and want something done. Now.