But if they get a sample of Trayvon’s voice and determine with a high degree of certainty it wasn’t him screaming either, then piece of info won’t matter.
People go to trial for two reasons:
- Certainly guilty
- Inconclusive
You never go to trial for times when you are certainly innoncent. If a guy comes into my house and attacks my family, I can shoot him dead and no one will charge me. That’s true even in the People’s Republic of New York. But if you add a hint of doubt then society is at least owed your presence in court. Yes?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
But if they get a sample of Trayvon’s voice and determine with a high degree of certainty it wasn’t him screaming either, then piece of info won’t matter.[/quote]
Shouldn’t the phone conversation with his girlfriend contain high quality audio of his voice?
It seems like every piece of ‘evidence’ that comes out even has experts torn on how to interpret it; that should however be leading to a trial, because while there is still reasonable doubt to his guilt, there is reasonable doubt to his innocence.
[quote]red04 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
But if they get a sample of Trayvon’s voice and determine with a high degree of certainty it wasn’t him screaming either, then piece of info won’t matter.[/quote]
Shouldn’t the phone conversation with his girlfriend contain high quality audio of his voice?
[/quote]
That isn’t available. All we have is the testimony of the girlfriend and verification from the phone company that call took place. No actual recording.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Well Zimmerman’s story just took another hit:
Trayvon Martin shooting: It’s not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012|
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.
His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.
Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story.
‘Scientific certainty’
On a rainy night in late February, a woman called 911 to report someone crying out for help in her gated Sanford community, Retreat at Twin Lakes.
Though several of her neighbors eventually called authorities, she phoned early enough for dispatchers to hear the panicked cries and the gunshot that took Trayvon Martin’s life.
George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, during a one-on-one confrontation Feb. 26.
Before the shot, one of them can be heard screaming for help.
Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library’s Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis ? a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.
After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman’s voice to the 911 call screams.
“I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else,” Owen says.
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman’s voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he’d expect higher than 90 percent.
“As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it’s not Zimmerman,” Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon’s, because he didn’t have a sample of the teen’s voice to compare.
Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology “has a history of nearly 70 years.”
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In the post 9-11 world, Owen says, voice identification is “the main biometric tool” used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists.
“These people don’t leave fingerprints, but they do still need to talk to one another,” he says.
‘The home run’
Though the term “biometric analysis” may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.
Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. “They’re all particular to the individual.”
The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.
Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.
Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.
Owen says the audio from Zimmerman’s call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.
And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says.
“In our world, that’s the home run,” he says.
Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology’s use in courtroom settings.
He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.
“I believe that’s Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt,” Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. “That’s a young man screaming.”
Zimmerman’s call to authorities minutes before the shooting provides a good standard for comparison, Primeau says, because it captures his voice both at rest and in an agitated state.
‘CSI’ effect
Only one person alive knows exactly what transpired in the moments immediately before Trayvon was fatally shot: Zimmerman, who has claimed he fired in self-defense.
H…O…L…Y…SHIT!
Two Experts identified the voice being that of a young man’s, most likely Trayvon in the background. One expert who doesn’t even use the software has done the same. ARE WE STILL GOING TO ARGUE IT WAS ZIMMERMAN’s voice??? Lets see what happens when they get a sample of Tray’s voice.
OK…so Zimmerman killed a kid who was crying for help.
Anyone still defending him?
I am sure Zimmerman was clueless about who the kid even was until Tray’s parents got involved…which was likely after the whole incident. I guess he thought claiming it was him would pass over unnoticed.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Two Experts identified the voice being that of a young man’s, most likely Trayvon in the background. One expert who doesn’t even use the software has done the same. ARE WE STILL GOING TO ARGUE IT WAS ZIMMERMAN’s voice??? Lets see what happens when they get a sample of Tray’s voice.[/quote]
His own fucking dad said it wasn’t his son.
Although wannabe gangster Trayvon dying like a bitch after attacking a guy would be ironic.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so Zimmerman killed a kid who was crying for help.
Anyone still defending him?
I am sure Zimmerman was clueless about who the kid even was until Tray’s parents got involved…which was likely after the whole incident. I guess he thought claiming it was him would pass over unnoticed.
[/quote]
First Lie of many to be found? TO BE CONTINUED…
This is interesting for sure, thanks for posting. And for the record, I’ve never defended Zimmerman. I’ve defended the American legal process.
It would be comical if Martin’s voice came up as a 49 or something far below 90. Then people could argue about the margin of error on the analyzing software, etc. Might be fun.
[quote]njrusmc wrote:
This is interesting for sure, thanks for posting. And for the record, I’ve never defended Zimmerman. I’ve defended the American legal process.
It would be comical if Martin’s voice came up as a 49 or something far below 90. Then people could argue about the margin of error on the analyzing software, etc. Might be fun.[/quote]
If they can argue DNA with OJ don’t think they won’t argue Technical error with this.
Well it might have been the screams of the boy who left to “Find” his dog? hmmm the conjecture is strong with this one!
Are we completely missing the fact that one Expert who was highly regarded and didn’t use the software came to the same conclusion?
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Are we completely missing the fact that one Expert who was highly regarded and didn’t use the software came to the same conclusion?[/quote]
Trayvon’s own father…
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so Zimmerman killed a kid who was crying for help.
Anyone still defending him?
I am sure Zimmerman was clueless about who the kid even was until Tray’s parents got involved…which was likely after the whole incident. I guess he thought claiming it was him would pass over unnoticed.
[/quote]
First Lie of many to be found? TO BE CONTINUED…[/quote]
Hell, it means his “black friend” lied as well as his brother, right?
That never sounded like an older man to me…but then, I don’t understand anyone not seeing this for what it was to start with.
If the parents had not stressed the race issue, none of this would likely have been found out. It would have all been kept in house and that police department seems shady.
My opinion: I can’t see shit that makes me think he did anything but roll in the dirt a little on that video of them processing Zimmerman. No defensive wounds on Tray means he was wrestling for his life and possibly trying to keep the gun from going off. The kid’s cries for help going unanswered is what gets me because apparently people were hearing it but no one wanted to get involved.
Zimmerman chased Tray the moment he left his car. He was too far to claim he was going back to the car or that anyone else would know he was going back to the car.
Maybe Zimmerman didn’t intend to kill the kid, but screams and then gun fire with the screams not being his voice don’t make it seem like he was trying too hard not to.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well it might have been the screams of the boy who left to “Find” his dog? hmmm the conjecture is strong with this one![/quote]
It may mean a trial at least.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so Zimmerman killed a kid who was crying for help.
Anyone still defending him?
I am sure Zimmerman was clueless about who the kid even was until Tray’s parents got involved…which was likely after the whole incident. I guess he thought claiming it was him would pass over unnoticed.
[/quote]
First Lie of many to be found? TO BE CONTINUED…[/quote]
Hell, it means his “black friend” lied as well as his brother, right?
That never sounded like an older man to me…but then, I don’t understand anyone not seeing this for what it was to start with.
If the parents had not stressed the race issue, none of this would likely have been found out. It would have all been kept in house and that police department seems shady.
My opinion: I can’t see shit that makes me think he did anything but roll in the dirt a little on that video of them processing Zimmerman. No defensive wounds on Tray means he was wrestling for his life and possibly trying to keep the gun from going off. The kid’s cries for help going unanswered is what gets me because apparently people were hearing it but no one wanted to get involved.
Zimmerman chased Tray the moment he left his car. He was too far to claim he was going back to the car or that anyone else would know he was going back to the car.
Maybe Zimmerman didn’t intend to kill the kid, but screams and then gun fire with the screams not being his voice don’t make it seem like he was trying too hard not to.
[/quote]
It means Trayvon’s father is lying about the voice too.
And you’re right, it is a shame people didn’t come to Zimmermans defense as he cried for help. A real tragedy could’ve been avoided.
Didn’t Trayvon’s father state the screams weren’t his sons?
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Two Experts identified the voice being that of a young man’s, most likely Trayvon in the background. One expert who doesn’t even use the software has done the same. ARE WE STILL GOING TO ARGUE IT WAS ZIMMERMAN’s voice??? Lets see what happens when they get a sample of Tray’s voice.[/quote]
Didn’t Martin’s dad already come out and say he didn’t think it was Trayvon on the tape screaming for help?
With so much shit getting out on this makes me think jury selection will be a nightmare.