Black Teen Shot 3

Off Topic
321

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.

Zimmerman is going to say: “I just walked up to him and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood and he vicously attacked me! I had no choice but to put the animal down!”

Judge will bang his gavel and they’ll call it case closed.[/quote]

From what I understand, the police did want to arrest him, but couldn’t adequately justify it; and they’re right, there isn’t adequate justification. It really does look like Trayvon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot him in defence. Eye witness testimony also lends strength to Zimmerman’s case >>Trayvon Martin was punching Neighborhood Watchman when he was shot.flv - YouTube.flv - YouTube

NOT arresting him isn’t “quickly taking his side”. To the contrary, arresting him without any actual evidence that he is lying would be picking a side rashly.

Is Zimmerman lying? I doubt it. Is he bending the truth? Most likely. He may have gone so far as to use “fighting words” and simply left that out of his testimony, but I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman threw the first punch.[/quote]

He didn’t have to throw the first punch he had a gun. But I totally see what you’re saying.[/quote]

You only pull out a gun if you’re intention is to kill[/quote]
No, you pull out a gun only if you are willing to kill.

322

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Legally speaking, there’s no evidence that Zimmerman stepped outside the legal boundaries of a regular citizen. [/quote]
Yes there is. By following Trayvon his actions could easily be interpreted as menacing especially when you factor in it was dark out. What if Trayvon ran, tripped, fell and hurt himself? What if he ran into the street and were hit by a car? Zimmerman would not be culpable?

323

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Legally speaking, there’s no evidence that Zimmerman stepped outside the legal boundaries of a regular citizen. [/quote]
Yes there is. By following Trayvon his actions could easily be interpreted as menacing especially when you factor in it was dark out. What if Trayvon ran, tripped, fell and hurt himself? What if he ran into the street and were hit by a car? Zimmerman would not be culpable? [/quote]

Especially considering it’s an adult vs a minor.

324

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Legally speaking, there’s no evidence that Zimmerman stepped outside the legal boundaries of a regular citizen. [/quote]
Yes there is. By following Trayvon his actions could easily be interpreted as menacing especially when you factor in it was dark out. What if Trayvon ran, tripped, fell and hurt himself? What if he ran into the street and were hit by a car? Zimmerman would not be culpable? [/quote]

So if what he did is considered menacing… does that negate his self-defense claim?

Or can they just charge him with menacing and not murder? The punishment for menacing is only 1 year in jail and fines.

325

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Legally speaking, there’s no evidence that Zimmerman stepped outside the legal boundaries of a regular citizen. [/quote]
Yes there is. By following Trayvon his actions could easily be interpreted as menacing especially when you factor in it was dark out. What if Trayvon ran, tripped, fell and hurt himself? What if he ran into the street and were hit by a car? Zimmerman would not be culpable? [/quote]

Zimmermans version had me thinking he was close to his car when this happened.

But the Map DN posted has Martin being shot heading in the direction of the house and Zimmermans Car is blocks away.

He was behind Martin for a good distance. He knew the cops were coming why bother asking the kid anything?

I think the case is going to come down to how they view the two people coming face to face.

326

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Legally speaking, there’s no evidence that Zimmerman stepped outside the legal boundaries of a regular citizen. [/quote]
Yes there is. By following Trayvon his actions could easily be interpreted as menacing especially when you factor in it was dark out. What if Trayvon ran, tripped, fell and hurt himself? What if he ran into the street and were hit by a car? Zimmerman would not be culpable? [/quote]

So if what he did is considered menacing… does that negate his self-defense claim?

Or can they just charge him with menacing and not murder? The punishment for menacing is only 1 year in jail and fines.[/quote]
The way I’m understanding it, once Zimmerman disengaged and no longer posed a threat (assuming his story is true), then it’s like a separate incident. I wouldn’t doubt that in a civil trial he could face a wrongful death suit since the argument could be made that Trayvon would be alive had Zimmerman not behaved like an idiot. He set the chain of events in motion that led to a death.

327

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
His brother seems like a nice kid. However, HE wasn’t there either, and of course he’s defending his brother.[/quote]

His father did the same thing. You would think they were both there in spirit, watching their son and bro being bashed about. All bunch of liars. I’d like to see them on the O’Donnell show. I bet that’d be too hot to handle. They can ask their lawyer how his experience was. Even the ‘token’ friend couldn’t handle it.

And lol at him saying his bro said ‘‘cono’’ and not coon. ‘‘Fucking cono…’’. Really??? In spanish, ‘‘cono’’ stands for son of the bitch, cunt, etc. But ‘‘Coon’’ is a racial slur and certainly not a fucking term of endearment.

If you wanna swear in your native language – the language you speak more than the other languages you’d learnt, – then swear in that native language only. You can’t seriously mix it with English. As a multi linguist, if I’m having a conversation with french people, I will think and speak french. Same applies to German, Spanish and Italian etc. And if I swear in German, why would I mix the words with some English? That doesn’t make any sense to me. A native French speaker calls the cops and then mutters ‘‘espece de con…’’ He will not say ‘‘fucking con’’. Sounds so wrong to me.

Okay, that was my share of ‘‘expertise’’ in multilingual swearing, hahaha. But on a serious note, though, I’ll be interested in other bilinguals’ take on this.

328

Well, shit, I have agreed with pretty much every thing you said DN and I am multilingual BUT I actually do mix the languages when I swear. Even though I predominantly speak and think in English, swearing parts of a curse in my native tongue (Dutch) makes me feel a bit better since no one understands what I am saying. I can really let loose, you know :slight_smile:

329

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Well, shit, I have agreed with pretty much every thing you said DN and I am multilingual BUT I actually do mix the languages when I swear. Even though I predominantly speak and think in English, swearing parts of a curse in my native tongue (Dutch) makes me feel a bit better since no one understands what I am saying. I can really let loose, you know :)[/quote]

Are you saying you mix Dutch with English when you swear in Dutch?

Ah dang it!

Lol.

330

I’d like to see all these heroes that would try to fight a guy with a gun drawn…that’s gotta be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

331

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Well, shit, I have agreed with pretty much every thing you said DN and I am multilingual BUT I actually do mix the languages when I swear. Even though I predominantly speak and think in English, swearing parts of a curse in my native tongue (Dutch) makes me feel a bit better since no one understands what I am saying. I can really let loose, you know :)[/quote]

Are you saying you mix Dutch with English when you swear in Dutch?

Ah dang it!

Lol.

[/quote]

My native tongue is English but I am also fluent in Hindi.

I intermix words from both languages when I speak at home.

A big part of what language I’m going to swear in is dependent upon what language I was speaking recently. If I just had a recent conversation in Hindi, I’m most likely to swear in Hindi closely after that.

332

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
His brother seems like a nice kid. However, HE wasn’t there either, and of course he’s defending his brother.[/quote]

His father did the same thing. You would think they were both there in spirit, watching their son and bro being bashed about. All bunch of liars. I’d like to see them on the O’Donnell show. I bet that’d be too hot to handle. They can ask their lawyer how his experience was. Even the ‘token’ friend couldn’t handle it.

And lol at him saying his bro said ‘‘cono’’ and not coon. ‘‘Fucking cono…’’. Really??? In spanish, ‘‘cono’’ stands for son of the bitch, cunt, etc. But ‘‘Coon’’ is a racial slur and certainly not a fucking term of endearment.

If you wanna swear in your native language – the language you speak more than the other languages you’d learnt, – then swear in that native language only. You can’t seriously mix it with English. As a multi linguist, if I’m having a conversation with french people, I will think and speak french. Same applies to German, Spanish and Italian etc. And if I swear in German, why would I mix the words with some English? That doesn’t make any sense to me. A native French speaker calls the cops and then mutters ‘‘espece de con…’’ He will not say ‘‘fucking con’’. Sounds so wrong to me.

Okay, that was my share of ‘‘expertise’’ in multilingual swearing, hahaha. But on a serious note, though, I’ll be interested in other bilinguals’ take on this.[/quote]
I know you don’t care in general and won’t candy coat regardless of opinion and I like that, but I must say that even though we disagree on certain points I’m happy to see the DarkNinja I’m fond of posting again over the last few pages.

Logical, intelligent, thought out and sincere but direct posts relaying your opinions with emotion fairly well in check. I do understand the emotional response but I like this better, just my opinion.

As far as swearing in native language while using local language, I have to disagree though. One day in public in highly latino populated areas and the spanglish used will certainly show a jump back and forth between languages, especially curse words.

Generalizing here but they almost always use english “fucking” with spanish “bitches” as an insult. I don’t know why but it is very typical.

“Fucking putos” is the most common here. We have lots of Mexicans though and that seems to be their preference. I don’t know know too many peruvians but I do know different spanish speaking regions use different lingo and even dialects.

I still think pinning racism on the case is grasping straws.

333

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I’d like to see all these heroes that would try to fight a guy with a gun drawn…that’s gotta be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
Yeah, me too. That just makes absolutely zero sense. Talk about a hero complex.

334

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I’d like to see all these heroes that would try to fight a guy with a gun drawn…that’s gotta be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]

I will agree it is dumb.

Unless you are out of Options. Then its Just survival.

336

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I’d like to see all these heroes that would try to fight a guy with a gun drawn…that’s gotta be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]

I will agree it is dumb.

Unless you are out of Options. Then its Just survival.[/quote]
Everybody reacts differently to a situation and situational details make a difference for sure.

I’m pretty familiar with guns. And fighting. Not being an internet bad ass, just understand my point.

I grew up in a Texas hunting family. Got my first bb gun in second grade, I think I was 7. First .22 a year later and a shotgun at ten followed by various other rifles and gauges.

I used to wrestle at a state level and in the offseason trained BJJ and during the summer even competed on a travelling freestyle (vs. UIL) team to stay in shape.

I kept up with BJJ but just for fun. I’ve been in enough fights to know you cut your knuckles on teeth and not noses as personal experience, not assumption.

Anyways, I do consider myself pretty well adapted to handle most threats but I’ve been held up before.

In high school I ultimately worked as a trapper at a gun range but initially was at a Red Wing boot store when two guys came in, white for the record.

They acted like they were shopping but were actually casing the place. I was pretty suspicious of them as they came in but what can you do? They gave me no real reason to attack, run, deny service et cetera. But I did profile them. Mangy looking, sleeved tats that looked prison and not art, kind of a nervous twitch…

Anyways, once they were comfortable it was just me and them, one sure enough pulled a gun. Aimed it right at me and within my reach. I really had no option. I was at the counter, behind that was a wall. They were in front of me, blocking the rest of the store and the door. I was completely at their mercy.

I had two options:

  1. Grab the arm and push it up/drop under and wrestle the gun away
  2. Act calm, be cool and give as little reason to be shot as possible.

I chose two.

Why? Because even though I was fairly confident I could kick the shit out of both guys at the same time, at least enough to knock them off gaurd and flee to the busy parking lot, I knew I was no match for a bullet. It would just be stupid to play hero and die.

I’m alive today.

Mind you, these guys actually did have their gun drawn. No conjecture about it. In that scenario, you just don’t go superman. You just don’t.

Eventually they got caught and it turned out a gas station clerk in the area had struggled with them and was shot for it. They knocked over a lot of places in the area within like two days. Story was they needed a heroine fix.

337

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Well, shit, I have agreed with pretty much every thing you said DN and I am multilingual BUT I actually do mix the languages when I swear. Even though I predominantly speak and think in English, swearing parts of a curse in my native tongue (Dutch) makes me feel a bit better since no one understands what I am saying. I can really let loose, you know :)[/quote]

Are you saying you mix Dutch with English when you swear in Dutch?

Ah dang it!

Lol.

[/quote]

If I’m speaking English, it’s all in English.

If I’m speaking Japanese, I mix some English in – but only if I’m REALLY angry.[/quote]

I’ve seen this in Japanese porn also.

338

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
He was following the kid to ask a pretty typical neighborhood watch question until the kid ran and he went back to his truck and was attacked by a kid with a history of attacking people.
[/quote]

Ok…since we’re all about keeping constructive discussion in line…I have to ask:

Is it well established that the scuffle and gunshot happened near Zimmerman’s truck?? I know Zimmerman claims that he was returning to his vehicle and Martin attacked him. You seem pretty sure that’s what happened? What is solid other than Zimmerman’s word for you to state it as fact???

And I still argue that Zimmerman’s actions once he disconnected from 911 were not “typical” of a neighborhood watch.

339

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
His brother seems like a nice kid. However, HE wasn’t there either, and of course he’s defending his brother.[/quote]

His father did the same thing. You would think they were both there in spirit, watching their son and bro being bashed about. All bunch of liars. I’d like to see them on the O’Donnell show. I bet that’d be too hot to handle. They can ask their lawyer how his experience was. Even the ‘token’ friend couldn’t handle it.

And lol at him saying his bro said ‘‘cono’’ and not coon. ‘‘Fucking cono…’’. Really??? In spanish, ‘‘cono’’ stands for son of the bitch, cunt, etc. But ‘‘Coon’’ is a racial slur and certainly not a fucking term of endearment.

If you wanna swear in your native language – the language you speak more than the other languages you’d learnt, – then swear in that native language only. You can’t seriously mix it with English. As a multi linguist, if I’m having a conversation with french people, I will think and speak french. Same applies to German, Spanish and Italian etc. And if I swear in German, why would I mix the words with some English? That doesn’t make any sense to me. A native French speaker calls the cops and then mutters ‘‘espece de con…’’ He will not say ‘‘fucking con’’. Sounds so wrong to me.

Okay, that was my share of ‘‘expertise’’ in multilingual swearing, hahaha. But on a serious note, though, I’ll be interested in other bilinguals’ take on this.[/quote]

I have to disagree on the cursing thing. No matter what language I am speaking, I always revert back to Russian in order to swear. It is an awesome language to swear in. My girlfriend does the same thing with Hindi and my friends that speak other languages all seem to revert back to their native languages when they swear or are mad.

340

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
He was following the kid to ask a pretty typical neighborhood watch question until the kid ran and he went back to his truck and was attacked by a kid with a history of attacking people.
[/quote]

Ok…since we’re all about keeping constructive discussion in line…I have to ask:

Is it well established that the scuffle and gunshot happened near Zimmerman’s truck?? I know Zimmerman claims that he was returning to his vehicle and Martin attacked him. You seem pretty sure that’s what happened? What is solid other than Zimmerman’s word for you to state it as fact???

And I still argue that Zimmerman’s actions once he disconnected from 911 were not “typical” of a neighborhood watch.[/quote]

It happened in the common area between condos, a considerable distance from his truck.