Black Teen Shot 3

Off Topic
181

Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.

Zimmerman is going to say: “I just walked up to him and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood and he vicously attacked me! I had no choice but to put the animal down!”

Judge will bang his gavel and they’ll call it case closed.

182

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Funeral Director speaks out:

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-funeral-director-speaks[/quote]

If I was the Martin Family I would be pissed for this guy doing this. PISSED.

Not sure how his statements will help the family.[/quote]

I guess the idea is that Trayvon’s hands should show signs of having punched someone. [/quote]

I asked my wife about this and his hands should absolutely show some signs under specialized photography.

They may or may not show signs to the naked eye, however, because: (1) bruising needs a beating heart to pump blood and cause the bruise and he died promptly; (2) he’s a male and has less fat; and (3) the darker the skin, the less visible.

This is a link I found:

183

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Since the law is so quick to believe Zimmerman’s story I fear that he’ll probably get off. Everyone is taking Zimmerman’s word as gospel and unless some pretty damning evidence comes out Zimmerman will probably be let go free. [/quote]

Perhaps here that is true, but everywhere else I see just the opposite. Very few people are taking Zimmerman’s side on this.

You’re making the mistake of assuming other people are inherently rational.

I doubt Trayvon considered the possibility that Zimmerman had a gun.[/quote]

Why? Its Florida. Why consider one way or the other?
[/quote]

I suppose I’m making the mistake of assuming Trayvon is inherently rational enough to not attack someone he suspects has a gun. =p

He may not be, but I doubt it. I think it’s more likely that he didn’t consider the possibility rather than he considered it, but took the risk.

184

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Since the law is so quick to believe Zimmerman’s story I fear that he’ll probably get off. [/quote]

It’s “innocent until proven guilty” in the USA.

We don’t have any evidence (yet) to disprove his story, other than it sounds like B.S.

185

I’ll throw my THEORY into the fold. But if I had to guess It seems like:

Zimmerman was on his way to the story in his car and seen Martin coming back from the store (but zim does not know this).

Zimmerman starts to follow martin calls 911 and at some point leaves his car (its still up in the air if he calls 911 from his car or on foot).

Martin sees Zimmerman following him. Stops walks back to see who this guy is gets scared/freaks out or whatever and starts to run.

Zimmerman still on the phone with 911 feels he has the right idea about Martin starts off after him. They meet, struggle, zimmerman now knows he is in a bad spot because the fight is more than he can take (meaning he feels he may die or be really hurt) and shoots martin.

Why do I feel Zimmerman had the courage to follow Martin.
1-he knows he has a gun
2-he feels justice is on his side because he thinks Martin is a crimminal (he states it in the 911)
3-He KNOWS the cops are coming to back him up.

All of the above could be off. But its what I see from everything said so far.

186

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.
[/quote]

Actually the beat cops didn’t buy Zimmerman’s story and wanted to charge him, but didn’t have any evidence. Go read the police report.

187

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Since the law is so quick to believe Zimmerman’s story I fear that he’ll probably get off. Everyone is taking Zimmerman’s word as gospel and unless some pretty damning evidence comes out Zimmerman will probably be let go free. [/quote]

Perhaps here that is true, but everywhere else I see just the opposite. Very few people are taking Zimmerman’s side on this.

You’re making the mistake of assuming other people are inherently rational.

I doubt Trayvon considered the possibility that Zimmerman had a gun.[/quote]

Why? Its Florida. Why consider one way or the other?
[/quote]

I suppose I’m making the mistake of assuming Trayvon is inherently rational enough to not attack someone he suspects has a gun. =p

He may not be, but I doubt it. I think it’s more likely that he didn’t consider the possibility rather than he considered it, but took the risk. [/quote]

Or He was left without options one way or the other. If I feel i’m cornered then it does not matter what I feel you have or don’t have on you. Its fight for my life time.

188

COJECTURE WARNING

You know, Zimmerman couldve tripped and fell on his back, thus banging his head on the concrete while Tray was defending himself…and when Tray moved in to end the fight MMA style Zimm pulled out his gun and shot him.

OR

Zimmerman pulled the gun close in on Tray he reached for it, punched him, a struggle ensued, George tripped over his own uncoordinated feet and whilst struggling for the gun managed to get a shot off.

Ya see, the “Evidence” could match up with either scenario. If what the neighbors saw and Zimmerman’s wounds stay constant, any of those scenarios would work. AND furthermore in my mind…IMO puts Tray’s defense in a good place for him to apply the stand your ground law.

189

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Since the law is so quick to believe Zimmerman’s story I fear that he’ll probably get off. [/quote]

It’s “innocent until proven guilty” in the USA.

We don’t have any evidence (yet) to disprove his story, other than it sounds like B.S.[/quote]

I can not see how Zimmeran will do time. Maybe court but I’m not holding my breath on that one either.

In the end I do believe Zimmerman thought his dumbass was going to die and did what he felt he needed to do to live. But he is still a dumbass because he put himself in that position.

Not a crime as far as I know.

190

[quote]four60 wrote:
I’ll throw my THEORY into the fold. But if I had to guess It seems like:

Zimmerman was on his way to the story in his car and seen Martin coming back from the store (but zim does not know this).

Zimmerman starts to follow martin calls 911 and at some point leaves his car (its still up in the air if he calls 911 from his car or on foot).

Martin sees Zimmerman following him. Stops walks back to see who this guy is gets scared/freaks out or whatever and starts to run.

Zimmerman still on the phone with 911 feels he has the right idea about Martin starts off after him. They meet, struggle, zimmerman now knows he is in a bad spot because the fight is more than he can take (meaning he feels he may die or be really hurt) and shoots martin.

Why do I feel Zimmerman had the courage to follow Martin.
1-he knows he has a gun
2-he feels justice is on his side because he thinks Martin is a crimminal (he states it in the 911)
3-He KNOWS the cops are coming to back him up.

All of the above could be off. But its what I see from everything said so far.[/quote]

That’s a realistic way of looking at it. Given the evidence the public has.

191

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
COJECTURE WARNING

You know, Zimmerman couldve tripped and fell on his back, thus banging his head on the concrete while Tray was defending himself…and when Tray moved in to end the fight MMA style Zimm pulled out his gun and shot him.

OR

Zimmerman pulled the gun close in on Tray he reached for it, punched him, a struggle ensued, George tripped over his own uncoordinated feet and whilst struggling for the gun managed to get a shot off.

Ya see, the “Evidence” could match up with either scenario. If what the neighbors saw and Zimmerman’s wounds stay constant, any of those scenarios would work. AND furthermore in my mind…IMO puts Tray’s defense in a good place for him to apply the stand your ground law.[/quote]

Those are very reasonable and likely scenarios. But, Trayvon is not on trial. He is dead. The only one who may wind up on trial is Zimmerman and these multiple scenarios to explain the same evidence works in his favor, just like for Casey Anthony. Since so many scenarios can explain the evidence, there is reasonable doubt over which one is correct. This is what leads to an acquittal. And, as Jewbacca pointed out, that does not mean Zimmerman is innocent.

192

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Since the law is so quick to believe Zimmerman’s story I fear that he’ll probably get off. [/quote]

It’s “innocent until proven guilty” in the USA.

We don’t have any evidence (yet) to disprove his story, other than it sounds like B.S.[/quote]

I can not see how Zimmeran will do time. Maybe court but I’m not holding my breath on that one either.

In the end I do believe Zimmerman thought his dumbass was going to die and did what he felt he needed to do to live. But he is still a dumbass because he put himself in that position.

Not a crime as far as I know.[/quote]

There’s no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman provoked the altercation…but with only one party still alive and neighbors who didn’t catch enough of the action, He’ll walk. What we need to realize is the evidence so far can support more than ONE scenario. Unfortunetly I still believe they will take Zimmerman’s word as gospel because it’s ONE scenario that might support the evidence in hand. IT doesn’t necessarily mean it shook down EXACTLY like that though.

193

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
COJECTURE WARNING

You know, Zimmerman couldve tripped and fell on his back, thus banging his head on the concrete while Tray was defending himself…and when Tray moved in to end the fight MMA style Zimm pulled out his gun and shot him.

OR

Zimmerman pulled the gun close in on Tray he reached for it, punched him, a struggle ensued, George tripped over his own uncoordinated feet and whilst struggling for the gun managed to get a shot off.

Ya see, the “Evidence” could match up with either scenario. If what the neighbors saw and Zimmerman’s wounds stay constant, any of those scenarios would work. AND furthermore in my mind…IMO puts Tray’s defense in a good place for him to apply the stand your ground law.[/quote]

hahahahaha OK you had me going with that first one.

But as far as the gun I’m not even sure the kid would have seen a Kel-tec 9mm. That bad boy is small 18 ounces.

194

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.

Zimmerman is going to say: “I just walked up to him and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood and he vicously attacked me! I had no choice but to put the animal down!”

Judge will bang his gavel and they’ll call it case closed.[/quote]

From what I understand, the police did want to arrest him, but couldn’t adequately justify it; and they’re right, there isn’t adequate justification. It really does look like Trayvon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot him in defence. Eye witness testimony also lends strength to Zimmerman’s case >> Trayvon Martin was punching Neighborhood Watchman when he was shot.flv - YouTube.flv - YouTube

NOT arresting him isn’t “quickly taking his side”. To the contrary, arresting him without any actual evidence that he is lying would be picking a side rashly.

Is Zimmerman lying? I doubt it. Is he bending the truth? Most likely. He may have gone so far as to use “fighting words” and simply left that out of his testimony, but I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman threw the first punch.

195

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
COJECTURE WARNING

You know, Zimmerman couldve tripped and fell on his back, thus banging his head on the concrete while Tray was defending himself…and when Tray moved in to end the fight MMA style Zimm pulled out his gun and shot him.

OR

Zimmerman pulled the gun close in on Tray he reached for it, punched him, a struggle ensued, George tripped over his own uncoordinated feet and whilst struggling for the gun managed to get a shot off.

Ya see, the “Evidence” could match up with either scenario. If what the neighbors saw and Zimmerman’s wounds stay constant, any of those scenarios would work. AND furthermore in my mind…IMO puts Tray’s defense in a good place for him to apply the stand your ground law.[/quote]

Those are very reasonable and likely scenarios. But, Trayvon is not on trial. He is dead. The only one who may wind up on trial is Zimmerman and these multiple scenarios to explain the same evidence works in his favor, just like for Casey Anthony. Since so many scenarios can explain the evidence, there is reasonable doubt over which one is correct. This is what leads to an acquittal. And, as Jewbacca pointed out, that does not mean Zimmerman is innocent.
[/quote]

Pretty much what I just posted but more eloquently put. LOL thank you.

196

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.

Zimmerman is going to say: “I just walked up to him and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood and he vicously attacked me! I had no choice but to put the animal down!”

Judge will bang his gavel and they’ll call it case closed.[/quote]

From what I understand, the police did want to arrest him, but couldn’t adequately justify it; and they’re right, there isn’t adequate justification. It really does look like Trayvon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot him in defence. Eye witness testimony also lends strength to Zimmerman’s case >>Trayvon Martin was punching Neighborhood Watchman when he was shot.flv - YouTube.flv - YouTube

NOT arresting him isn’t “quickly taking his side”. To the contrary, arresting him without any actual evidence that he is lying would be picking a side rashly.

Is Zimmerman lying? I doubt it. Is he bending the truth? Most likely. He may have gone so far as to use “fighting words” and simply left that out of his testimony, but I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman threw the first punch.[/quote]

He didn’t have to throw the first punch he had a gun. But I totally see what you’re saying.

197

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Well according to the officers who showed up on the scene it was pretty cut and dry to them that Zimmerman was brutally attacked by a teenager who had been walking and minding his business, but suddenly went ape shit on a strange man in an unmarked car who pestered him.

Zimmerman is going to say: “I just walked up to him and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood and he vicously attacked me! I had no choice but to put the animal down!”

Judge will bang his gavel and they’ll call it case closed.[/quote]

From what I understand, the police did want to arrest him, but couldn’t adequately justify it; and they’re right, there isn’t adequate justification. It really does look like Trayvon was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot him in defence. Eye witness testimony also lends strength to Zimmerman’s case >>Trayvon Martin was punching Neighborhood Watchman when he was shot.flv - YouTube.flv - YouTube

NOT arresting him isn’t “quickly taking his side”. To the contrary, arresting him without any actual evidence that he is lying would be picking a side rashly.

Is Zimmerman lying? I doubt it. Is he bending the truth? Most likely. He may have gone so far as to use “fighting words” and simply left that out of his testimony, but I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman threw the first punch.[/quote]

He didn’t have to throw the first punch he had a gun. But I totally see what you’re saying.[/quote]

You only pull out a gun if you’re intention is to kill

198

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
COJECTURE WARNING

You know, Zimmerman couldve tripped and fell on his back, thus banging his head on the concrete while Tray was defending himself…and when Tray moved in to end the fight MMA style Zimm pulled out his gun and shot him.

OR

Zimmerman pulled the gun close in on Tray he reached for it, punched him, a struggle ensued, George tripped over his own uncoordinated feet and whilst struggling for the gun managed to get a shot off.

Ya see, the “Evidence” could match up with either scenario. If what the neighbors saw and Zimmerman’s wounds stay constant, any of those scenarios would work. AND furthermore in my mind…IMO puts Tray’s defense in a good place for him to apply the stand your ground law.[/quote]

hahahahaha OK you had me going with that first one.

But as far as the gun I’m not even sure the kid would have seen a Kel-tec 9mm. That bad boy is small 18 ounces. [/quote]

Interesting point…late at night…a small black or silver hard to see weapon…hmmmm

199

[quote]four60 wrote:
I’ll throw my THEORY into the fold. But if I had to guess It seems like:

Zimmerman was on his way to the story in his car and seen Martin coming back from the store (but zim does not know this).

Zimmerman starts to follow martin calls 911 and at some point leaves his car (its still up in the air if he calls 911 from his car or on foot).

Martin sees Zimmerman following him. Stops walks back to see who this guy is gets scared/freaks out or whatever and starts to run.

Zimmerman still on the phone with 911 feels he has the right idea about Martin starts off after him. They meet, struggle, zimmerman now knows he is in a bad spot because the fight is more than he can take (meaning he feels he may die or be really hurt) and shoots martin.

Why do I feel Zimmerman had the courage to follow Martin.
1-he knows he has a gun
2-he feels justice is on his side because he thinks Martin is a crimminal (he states it in the 911)
3-He KNOWS the cops are coming to back him up.

All of the above could be off. But its what I see from everything said so far.[/quote]

This is basically how I see it as well.

200

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]thirdruffian wrote:

If you look at the article, it says the Stand Your Ground law didn’t even apply, because dumbass Zimmerman was already on the ground and couldn’t retreat.[/quote]

? I thought that would work in Zimmermans defense?[/quote]

No, the “Stand Your Ground” law merely added you don’t have to run away, if you have the ability to do so.

Here, dumbass was on the ground, so he couldn’t run away.

It’s just plain-old “self-defense.”[/quote]

Nothing is really “plain” in this incident. There are “if these things hold true” it’s just plain-old self-defense. Even with Stand Your Ground law…wouldn’t there still be a need to determine the aggressor before establishing who is justified in their self-defense3??

With that…couldn’t this Stand Your Ground law have justified Martin in defending himself…and putting Zimmerman on the ground in the first place…??? Of course there is the confusing “speculation” that Martin followed Zimmerman back to the vehicle. But it’s just that…speculation. [/quote]

Well this is why it stings so much for the family. The Defense (Zimmerman) does not have to show much of anything because the burden of proof is on the Prosecution.[/quote]

Very true…nothing to refute Zimmerman’s claims. But(IMO) there is enough to still hold him responsible in being careless and negligent…if the prosecution goes that route. [/quote]
I think it is easy to criticize in hindsight.

It’s not that weird to think a neighborhood watch captain would roll up to a suspicious outsider to ask who he is visiting.

It’s not weird to think Trayvon veered off as he pulled up.

It’s not weird to think Trayvon avoiding a question appeared even more suspicious.

It’s not weird to think Zimmerman exited his car to identify himself and ask his question.

Or that Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman headed back to his car.

Or that Trayvon, shown to have authority issues in general, attacked and brought us to the situation at hand.[/quote]

First I will admit that I did not read the volumes of prior post. The level of response to an “attack” has to be in line with the attack. If I pinch you your response should not be to shoot me. Not sure if anyone has said it yet but does anyone really recognize a watch person as being a person of authority to even make me stop and talk to them. Legally you have no authority as a watch person. Yes as it has been said over and over. No one knows what really happened. Does it seem this guy went way overboard? YES