Black Hole...Racist Term???

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
FWIW (correct me if I’m wrong), roughly 1 in 6 blacks lives at the poverty level, so around 85% of blacks are middle class or above. The percentage of blacks on welfare is higher than that of other groups, but in actual figures, the number of whites dwarfs them. [/quote]

It is interesting to me that you bring this up, because it is also something I hear often. If I make a snide comment about welfare, or indicate that I have a problem with the way it is administered, someone always pipes up with “more white people are on welfare than black people.”

OK… so what? Who said anything about black people? I just don’t want to pay for someone else to not work.

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
nephorm wrote:
Hey, I’d kick in a hundred bucks if I never had to hear about the issue again. Otherwise, what would be the point of “reparations?”

But we all know it wouldn’t work that way, because affirmative action is not a form of reparations, it is supposed to correct existing deficiencies in the system (institutional racism as well as individual).

Ah, but the proposals I’ve heard run into tens of thousands of dollars per person. How will you feel to pay $25k over the next 3 years for reparations and be told that all those newly rich black kids still need massive financial aid and special admission standards to go to college? Nobody will sign off on reparations under those conditions.

FWIW (correct me if I’m wrong), roughly 1 in 6 blacks lives at the poverty level, so around 85% of blacks are middle class or above. The percentage of blacks on welfare is higher than that of other groups, but in actual figures, the number of whites dwarfs them.

– jj [/quote]

This reminds of when my wife and i moved to Idaho. I went to apply for a job and first they gave me an affirmitive action form to fill out.Since there arent may black people in Idaho and becaue I was WAYYY qualified I knew I’d get it.

Anyway yes there are more white people on welfare but I think thats because there are MORE white people. Thats probably due to the high rate of abortion among the black community not to mention AIDS, drugs, and the breakdown of the family which is the root of most of these problems in the first place. Isnt liberalism GREAT!!!

I’m half Irish but I wouldn’t even try to compare the way blacks were brought here and treated to the Irish experience. Steerage on the Titanic was paradise compared to the hold of a slave ship.

When the Irish and Chinese came here America was already a country. When the blacks were brought here the east coast was impenetrable forest and marshy swampland with mosquitoes the size of your fist.

Blacks are the ones who drained the swamps and cleared the land so America was a place people would be able to come to. At the time of signing of the Declaration of Independence Africans were the largest ethnic group in America.

As far as raw deals go the blacks are head of the class. So I would never say they don’t have a very legitimate complaint. But the thought that America owes them something prevents them from achieving their full potential. Dwelling upon the injustices of the past, poisons the present for them. That was my point.

Calling for reperations is delusional, there is no way white America is going to do it. To suggest to people that anything other than their own effort will solve their problems is misleading them.

Like I wrote earlier, just giving money to people who have no experience having money and not much education can do harm. If we gave a million dollars to every black person in America there would be some who did well with it. But there would be others for whom the money would be a curse, because they aren’t ready to have that kind of wealth.

The only thing that would actually help would be education. If we made trade school or a college education available for any black who wanted it that would be the best solution.

Jesse Jackson did have a point when he said that it costs just as much money to put a black kid in jail for a year as it costs to get a college education at Harvard. A Harvard education did wonders for Obama.

But even a community college education can do a lot. It is sad that the money is there to lock people up but it isn’t available to better them.

Unfortuneately there is a culture of living down to the lowest common denominator so many are disfunctional and those who could have been successful and helped others never do.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
It is interesting to me that you bring this up, because it is also something I hear often. If I make a snide comment about welfare, or indicate that I have a problem with the way it is administered, someone always pipes up with “more white people are on welfare than black people.”

OK… so what? Who said anything about black people? I just don’t want to pay for someone else to not work.[/quote]

Fair enough. I brought it up because there is a stereotype that only minorities are on welfare. That there is a large, hard working black middle class which has strong family values seems to be something of a secret.

– jj

Welfare is not always a bad thing. Once unemployment goes below 3% it becomes really hard for employers to find suitable employees because that final 3% is pretty sad. This causes wage inflation to kick in driving up the price of everything else. So some of the animosity towards welfare is misguided. Either way it would cost us.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I’m half Irish but I wouldn’t even try to compare the way blacks were brought here and treated to the Irish experience. Steerage on the Titanic was paradise compared to the hold of a slave ship.

When the Irish and Chinese came here America was already a country. When the blacks were brought here the east coast was impenetrable forest and marshy swampland with mosquitoes the size of your fist.

Blacks are the ones who drained the swamps and cleared the land so America was a place people would be able to come to. At the time of signing of the Declaration of Independence Africans were the largest ethnic group in America.

[/quote]

I wasn’t serious. Just showing how silly reperations are.

It’s available to everyone now. I went to college with $30 and half a pack of cigarettes. No one paid for my schooling. My parents also made too much for me to get any kind of grants.

They thought it better that I pay for everything myself. When they did offer me money for groceries or small stuff, I declined. I enjoyed living on my own and providing for myself. I had several jobs during school and usually carried at least two at a time.

Worked in the gym, worked as a personal trainer, changed oil at a jiffy lube, drove fork lift at Fleet Farm, wrote parking tickets on campus, fixed computers on campus, humped block and cement for a mason, and probably a few more.

It was a very small town where half the residents were students so there was insane competition for jobs. None of them paid very much. Most of my freinds were in similar situations.

[quote]
Jesse Jackson did have a point when he said that it costs just as much money to put a black kid in jail for a year as it costs to get a college education at Harvard. A Harvard education did wonders for Obama.

But even a community college education can do a lot. It is sad that the money is there to lock people up but it isn’t available to better them.

Unfortuneately there is a culture of living down to the lowest common denominator so many are disfunctional and those who could have been successful and helped others never do.[/quote]

This makes no sense. How many of those in prison would be interested in any schooling. If they were interested they would be in school, not jail. We don’t put them in jail because we don’t know what to do with them.

They are in jail because they made bad decisions. Society owes them nothing. We are simply paying to keep them from robbing us, murdering us, or selling our kids drugs. White, black, or yellow.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Welfare is not always a bad thing. Once unemployment goes below 3% it becomes really hard for employers to find suitable employees because that final 3% is pretty sad. This causes wage inflation to kick in driving up the price of everything else. So some of the animosity towards welfare is misguided. Either way it would cost us. [/quote]

We spend an incredible amount of money on welfare programs. More than any other part of the budget. It is simply not needed. Those that are truly in need were taken care of before welfare.

It’s called volentary charity and it thrived before the 60s. gov’t has taken away the satifaction of taking care of our own. They have made impersonal and recieving a check from the gov’t as uncomfortable as recieving a paycheck for your own labor. When you loot ones paycheck and give that persons labor to someone he doesn’t know of course there is animosity.

There is no animosity when people give of themselves volentarily. Taking 40% of ones labor to distribute to those that do not work or do not share the same values of the payee is immoral. We have now become a bunch of sniveling babies sucking at the tit of gov’t.

Educate my children.
Pay for me to go to the doctor for the sniffles.
I want free transportation.
take care my retirement.
tell me how much of my check i can keep.
tell me where i can smoke.
tell me what kind of car I can drive.
tell me who i can buy goods and services from and how much I have to pay.

We turned into a buch of pussies and are now paying the price. It will soon all come crashing down. Unfortunate considering the potential when this country was founded. Unfortunate considering how much better off we could be limited gov’t and a truly free market.

John Wiley Price has been stirring up shit in Dallas for the last 25 years.

Anyone who takes him seriously should be committed. That includes JWP himself.

Honestly - this is nothing but a cry for attention from a man who has nothing better to do than over stay his 15 minutes.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Welfare is not always a bad thing. Once unemployment goes below 3% it becomes really hard for employers to find suitable employees because that final 3% is pretty sad. This causes wage inflation to kick in driving up the price of everything else. So some of the animosity towards welfare is misguided. Either way it would cost us.

We spend an incredible amount of money on welfare programs. More than any other part of the budget. It is simply not needed. Those that are truly in need were taken care of before welfare.

It’s called volentary charity and it thrived before the 60s. gov’t has taken away the satifaction of taking care of our own. They have made impersonal and recieving a check from the gov’t as uncomfortable as recieving a paycheck for your own labor. When you loot ones paycheck and give that persons labor to someone he doesn’t know of course there is animosity.

There is no animosity when people give of themselves volentarily. Taking 40% of ones labor to distribute to those that do not work or do not share the same values of the payee is immoral. We have now become a bunch of sniveling babies sucking at the tit of gov’t.

Educate my children.
Pay for me to go to the doctor for the sniffles.
I want free transportation.
take care my retirement.
tell me how much of my check i can keep.
tell me where i can smoke.
tell me what kind of car I can drive.
tell me who i can buy goods and services from and how much I have to pay.

We turned into a buch of pussies and are now paying the price. It will soon all come crashing down. Unfortunate considering the potential when this country was founded. Unfortunate considering how much better off we could be limited gov’t and a truly free market.[/quote]

I agree. Why should the govt be able to take food (money) out of my kids mouth to pay for some asshole to make bad choices in life. I earn a pretty decent living and I WORK for everything I have. ANYBODY who WANTS to earn a living in AMERICA CAN. You just gotta be willing to do it.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Sifu wrote:
I’m half Irish but I wouldn’t even try to compare the way blacks were brought here and treated to the Irish experience. Steerage on the Titanic was paradise compared to the hold of a slave ship.

When the Irish and Chinese came here America was already a country. When the blacks were brought here the east coast was impenetrable forest and marshy swampland with mosquitoes the size of your fist.

Blacks are the ones who drained the swamps and cleared the land so America was a place people would be able to come to. At the time of signing of the Declaration of Independence Africans were the largest ethnic group in America.

I wasn’t serious. Just showing how silly reperations are.
[/quote]
I do realize what you wrote was a joke. I had a serious point to make. I responded to your wisecrack because it could tend to make my point appear as one that was motivated by a lack of sympathy for blacks and what they have been through. Which is not the case.

I don’t think the idea of reperations is a silly one, I do think it does have some legitimate grounds. So that was not my point either.

My point is it is something that isn’t going to come about. So raising it just gives a false sense of hope, that makes people think they don’t have to get their lives together. What it does do is give people a sense that they are still being done wrong which makes them angry and bitter. All it does is poison people without helping them in any way.

[quote]
The only thing that would actually help would be education. If we made trade school or a college education available for any black who wanted it that would be the best solution.

It’s available to everyone now. I went to college with $30 and half a pack of cigarettes. No one paid for my schooling. My parents also made too much for me to get any kind of grants. [/quote]

It isn’t real easy to get grants or student loans. There is a strong culture of why even bother trying that needs to be overcome. Reperations is one of the things that reinforces that mentality.

Why did your parents make too much? Perhaps because they had decent jobs thanks to education and/or job skills. You probably came from a better place than a lot of ghetto kids even if you weren’t rich. With better role models and influences.

[quote]
They thought it better that I pay for everything myself. When they did offer me money for groceries or small stuff, I declined. I enjoyed living on my own and providing for myself. I had several jobs during school and usually carried at least two at a time.

Worked in the gym, worked as a personal trainer, changed oil at a jiffy lube, drove fork lift at Fleet Farm, wrote parking tickets on campus, fixed computers on campus, humped block and cement for a mason, and probably a few more.

It was a very small town where half the residents were students so there was insane competition for jobs. None of them paid very much. Most of my freinds were in similar situations. [/quote]

I bet there was competition for jobs. I also bet that a white kid who came from a nice white suburb and went to a good school would have a leg up in securing one compared to a black kid from the hood who went to MLK High School.

I also bet that while you were going to school you never got spit on, beat up or raped for talking like you were white.

[quote]
Jesse Jackson did have a point when he said that it costs just as much money to put a black kid in jail for a year as it costs to get a college education at Harvard. A Harvard education did wonders for Obama.

But even a community college education can do a lot. It is sad that the money is there to lock people up but it isn’t available to better them.

Unfortuneately there is a culture of living down to the lowest common denominator so many are disfunctional and those who could have been successful and helped others never do.

This makes no sense. How many of those in prison would be interested in any schooling. If they were interested they would be in school, not jail. We don’t put them in jail because we don’t know what to do with them. [/quote]

There are people in jail who are interested in schooling. They have to get work when they get out in order to be productive citizens. Schooling helps. Especially when they have a criminal record against them.

[quote]
They are in jail because they made bad decisions. Society owes them nothing. We are simply paying to keep them from robbing us, murdering us, or selling our kids drugs. White, black, or yellow.[/quote]

With this you really come across as a white kid who led a protected life in the suburbs, because you are really clueless about how American society works. You should learn about the school to prison pipeline.

It is not all bad decision making. There are people in jail who are there because they had circumstances forced upon them.

Eighty percent of prisoners are in jail because of the war on drugs. Only twenty percent are in there for all the other crimes. Those can be broken down into two categories, violent crime, assault, rape, murder and stealing. A good percentage of the assaults and murders are a result of the war on drugs. And a lot of the stealing is a result of the war on drugs.

Most dealers wouldn’t be selling drugs to kids if the war on drugs didn’t make it profitable for them to do it. Without drug turf to fight over there would be a lot less violent crime. Without the war on drugs policy of interdiction driving up the prices there would be a lot less stealing to support habits.

Most of the problems you just pointed out are an uneccessary self-inflicted wound. If we can borrow over a hundred billion dollars a year to waste on the war on drugs, we should be able to come up with money for schools.

[quote]jawara wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Welfare is not always a bad thing. Once unemployment goes below 3% it becomes really hard for employers to find suitable employees because that final 3% is pretty sad. This causes wage inflation to kick in driving up the price of everything else. So some of the animosity towards welfare is misguided. Either way it would cost us.

We spend an incredible amount of money on welfare programs. More than any other part of the budget. It is simply not needed. Those that are truly in need were taken care of before welfare.

It’s called volentary charity and it thrived before the 60s. gov’t has taken away the satifaction of taking care of our own. They have made impersonal and recieving a check from the gov’t as uncomfortable as recieving a paycheck for your own labor. When you loot ones paycheck and give that persons labor to someone he doesn’t know of course there is animosity.

There is no animosity when people give of themselves volentarily. Taking 40% of ones labor to distribute to those that do not work or do not share the same values of the payee is immoral. We have now become a bunch of sniveling babies sucking at the tit of gov’t.

Educate my children.
Pay for me to go to the doctor for the sniffles.
I want free transportation.
take care my retirement.
tell me how much of my check i can keep.
tell me where i can smoke.
tell me what kind of car I can drive.
tell me who i can buy goods and services from and how much I have to pay.

We turned into a buch of pussies and are now paying the price. It will soon all come crashing down. Unfortunate considering the potential when this country was founded. Unfortunate considering how much better off we could be limited gov’t and a truly free market.

I agree. Why should the govt be able to take food (money) out of my kids mouth to pay for some asshole to make bad choices in life. I earn a pretty decent living and I WORK for everything I have. ANYBODY who WANTS to earn a living in AMERICA CAN. You just gotta be willing to do it.[/quote]

I agree that there are some institutional problems with welfare that need to be fixed. Workfare is one of the best solutions. But make no mistake welfare save us from problems.

Inflation though is way worse than taxes. Hundred percent employment would cause brutal inflation. You might not have to pay taxes for welfare but you would need very regular pay raises. Also you then have the problem of big swings in the economy from boom to bust that can be brutal. Especially in an economy where there is no welfare.

The great depression was a great example of what is possible when there is no safety net and everyone has to work or starve. Even people who were responsible and did the right thing were wiped out.

^
|
|
|

scroll rule violation

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Why did your parents make too much? Perhaps because they had decent jobs thanks to education and/or job skills. You probably came from a better place than a lot of ghetto kids even if you weren’t rich. With better role models and influences.
[/quote]
Neither were educated and grew up in large relatively poor families. They both had to overcome defistating circumstances that I won’t mention here. My dad started out as a janitor at a railroad and worked his way to facilities manager for three states. Most of my child hood he had a night job selling TVs and Stereos as well. He has mentioned barely graduating HS. My mom work at kmart and doing day care, before starting at an entry level position at a bank and working her way to regional vp.

I don’t think I had a particulary rough childhood. I had everything I needed but very little of what I wanted. I leaned not to want much. It was a small town so I wasn’t competing with black kids from the hood. What’s your point? I alway worked at least two jobs making minimum wage or very slightly higher.

Ok you lost me here. I still don’t see what your point is. What does this have to do with my post? There are no excuses to be a parasite slug. My life hasn’t been without tragedy. Whatever happens to me I always tell myself worse things have happened to better people.

There are people that have three nipples, what’s your point? Is this the majority? Again, if they want it, it’s there.

How many of these came from families that were self sufficient? How many came from “families” that were on the dole. That is my point. You should pay attention to this white kid from the suburbs (country actually).

Again what’s your point. Drugs are illeagle.

Then what would they do?

[quote]
Most of the problems you just pointed out are an uneccessary self-inflicted wound. If we can borrow over a hundred billion dollars a year to waste on the war on drugs, we should be able to come up with money for schools.[/quote]
your treating symtoms not the cause. When has that ever been a good idea. Let people continue to be raised like animals (black, white, whatever) but pay for them to go to collage. Sounds smart. Never ending black hole with hard working americans footing the bill. Bottom line is it is immoral to take one persons labor and give the proceeds to someone that doesn’t want to work. It is moral to give of the proceeds of your labor volentarily to those in need.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I agree that there are some institutional problems with welfare that need to be fixed. Workfare is one of the best solutions. But make no mistake welfare save us from problems.
[/quote]
Workfare is a terrible option. It takes resourses away from productive work. Also, what would they be allowed to do? You don’t think every union in the country is going to rule out workfare competing with them.

this is ridiculous. first off inflation is a tax, it is no worse than taxes. No developed country has 100% empoyment. Third world countries often have close to 100% employment. every man woman and child has to work. legally or not. You points about employment causing a brutal economy is so far from reality, i don’t even know where to begin.

[quote]
The great depression was a great example of what is possible when there is no safety net and everyone has to work or starve. Even people who were responsible and did the right thing were wiped out. [/quote]

Jesus Christ man, why don’t you do a bit of reading before you post things like this. What safety nets weren’t there? There were plenty of recessions before Federally insured deposits (the great depression wasn’t one of them) and they resolved themselves with little recourse. It’s called a market correction and it happens all the time. Three times in the last twenty years. Your almighty gov’t was responsible for turning it into a severe depression. To be fair a Repulican and then a Democrat.

Try

The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History - Also referenses serveral good reads.
The Forgotten Man - Forget by who.