[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
While some crops are certainly more labor intensive than others, the Amish right down the road from me don’t use many modern farming implements, yet they get it done.
[/quote]
You didn’t really try to compare Amish people (who all work on the farm) with multi-million dollar farms that feed all of us who do things other than pick onions, did you?
[quote]doogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
While some crops are certainly more labor intensive than others, the Amish right down the road from me don’t use many modern farming implements, yet they get it done.
You didn’t really try to compare Amish people (who all work on the farm) with multi-million dollar farms that feed all of us who do things other than pick onions, did you?
[/quote]
I was seriously going to comment on the same thing. My guess is, none of the Amish have anywhere near the social or economic demands of even the most isolated farmer who contributes to a mass market.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
While some crops are certainly more labor intensive than others, the Amish right down the road from me don’t use many modern farming implements, yet they get it done.
You didn’t really try to compare Amish people (who all work on the farm) with multi-million dollar farms that feed all of us who do things other than pick onions, did you?
[/quote]
Just showing that the work can get done without many modern farm tools.
We don’t need to pay an illegal worker an incredibly low wage to get it done. There are other ways. It will require change to the system, but I think we would be better off for it.
Besides, have you ever seen an Amish pull out his money roll? These dudes are raking in the cash. They don’t buy too many things, but when they do they pay cash.
They may be quaint, but the Amish farmer often does well financially. Their farmland alone is often worth millions (at least in this area). My understanding is that the Amish carpenters tend not to have nearly as much money.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
doogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
While some crops are certainly more labor intensive than others, the Amish right down the road from me don’t use many modern farming implements, yet they get it done.
You didn’t really try to compare Amish people (who all work on the farm) with multi-million dollar farms that feed all of us who do things other than pick onions, did you?
Just showing that the work can get done without many modern farm tools.
We don’t need to pay an illegal worker an incredibly low wage to get it done. There are other ways. It will require change to the system, but I think we would be better off for it.
Besides, have you ever seen an Amish pull out his money roll? These dudes are raking in the cash. They don’t buy too many things, but when they do they pay cash.
They may be quaint, but the Amish farmer often does well financially. Their farmland alone is often worth millions (at least in this area). My understanding is that the Amish carpenters tend not to have nearly as much money.[/quote]
I think you are being highly unrealistic. The reality is much more similar to; if we could somehow magically transport all illegal citizens in this country back to their places of origin tonight, every American would pissed by Wednesday because there was no food stocked on the shelves at Super-WalMart, none of the trash had been picked up and nearly all construction across the country had come to a grinding halt. People in corporate buildings all over this great land of ours would have to avoid using the restrooms because no one had cleaned them in days. Shit covered walls and urine stained tiled floorings would be the mark left behind. Yards would go uncut and unlandscaped while rich kids would suddenly be nanny-less.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…
I think you are being highly unrealistic. The reality is much more similar to; if we could somehow magically transport all illegal citizens in this country back to their places of origin tonight, every American would pissed by Wednesday because there was no food stocked on the shelves at Super-WalMart, none of the trash had been picked up and nearly all construction across the country had come to a grinding halt. People in corporate buildings all over this great land of ours would have to avoid using the restrooms because no one had cleaned them in days. Shit covered walls and urine stained tiled floorings would be the mark left behind. Yards would go uncut and unlandscaped while rich kids would suddenly be nanny-less.
[/quote]
You make a good point. We cannot change everything at the same time or the system would fall apart.
I personally would not return many illegal aliens (just the “real” criminals.)
I would favor yet another amnesty program for the people already here, but we would have to put some things in place to slow the flow beforehand.
It is likely just wishful thinking. Both political parties are afraid of this issue because the necessary fixes cross party lines. They only seem to want change at the expense of the other party.
Heaven forbid the human aspect be considered.
Doogie, nice to hear you understand they are also human beings, as well as illegal immigrants.
Sure there are a lot of abuses that cost a lot of money, but the fact of the matter is that for some reason the government hasn’t gotten serious about solving the problem.
I think the government, or the private interests that it represents, deserve more of your scorn than the illegal immigrants. They are here, working for a living, and the only reason they aren’t citizens is because they are several hundred years too late.
Perhaps the main problem is that they are in numbers great enough to allow them to avoid assimilation into the melting pot fast enough. Their very difference and adherence to language and customs that are not American in origin appears to cause quite an offence to many people.
Hating them and discriminating against them (illegal immigrants), won’t make them leave the country, it will just make them cling to their own culture more tightly.
Read the 14th Amendment and please tell me how you plan on over turning it?
Maybe you can find an ‘active judge’ to help you with this…
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Read the 14th Amendment and please tell me how you plan on over turning it?
Maybe you can find an ‘active judge’ to help you with this…[/quote]
The children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants have every right to stay. Just deport their parents.
That is in no way in violation of the 14th Amendment.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
doogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
While some crops are certainly more labor intensive than others, the Amish right down the road from me don’t use many modern farming implements, yet they get it done.
You didn’t really try to compare Amish people (who all work on the farm) with multi-million dollar farms that feed all of us who do things other than pick onions, did you?
Just showing that the work can get done without many modern farm tools.
We don’t need to pay an illegal worker an incredibly low wage to get it done. There are other ways. It will require change to the system, but I think we would be better off for it.
Besides, have you ever seen an Amish pull out his money roll? These dudes are raking in the cash. They don’t buy too many things, but when they do they pay cash.
They may be quaint, but the Amish farmer often does well financially. Their farmland alone is often worth millions (at least in this area). My understanding is that the Amish carpenters tend not to have nearly as much money.
I think you are being highly unrealistic. The reality is much more similar to; if we could somehow magically transport all illegal citizens in this country back to their places of origin tonight, every American would pissed by Wednesday because there was no food stocked on the shelves at Super-WalMart, none of the trash had been picked up and nearly all construction across the country had come to a grinding halt. People in corporate buildings all over this great land of ours would have to avoid using the restrooms because no one had cleaned them in days. Shit covered walls and urine stained tiled floorings would be the mark left behind. Yards would go uncut and unlandscaped while rich kids would suddenly be nanny-less.
[/quote]
Someone’s been reading a Day of Absence. Wait that was written about black people, but it has the same argument. Chickenshit.
There are plenty of crackheads and other low-lifes that do work for less than minimum wage.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Read the 14th Amendment and please tell me how you plan on over turning it?
Maybe you can find an ‘active judge’ to help you with this…
The children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants have every right to stay. Just deport their parents.
That is in no way in violation of the 14th Amendment.
[/quote]
Ex-fucking-actly. These kids are American citizens while their parents are not. We can put those little kiddies in foster homes and have the state pay for em’… Oh wait… It’d be a moot point. None of these Mexicans would be border hopping so their kids could have a better life… its so they can shit on our system.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
There are plenty of crackheads and other low-lifes that do work for less than minimum wage.[/quote]
Let’s see, would I rather Crackhead Ricky clean the bathrooms around the office or Rosalita, the faithful employee who even shows up on her sick days?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
There are plenty of crackheads and other low-lifes that do work for less than minimum wage.
Let’s see, would I rather Crackhead Ricky clean the bathrooms around the office or Rosalita, the faithful employee who even shows up on her sick days?[/quote]
Well then there’s hardworking Marcos, green card in hand, who’ll do all Rosalita will and speak English, broken of course, but hey… it’s better than nothing.
But really, I think employers should receive stiff penalities for hiring illegals (perhaps twice the economic benefit that they received: Such as the amount of wages they didn’t have to pay coupled with tax/benefit avoidance).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
There are plenty of crackheads and other low-lifes that do work for less than minimum wage.
Let’s see, would I rather Crackhead Ricky clean the bathrooms around the office or Rosalita, the faithful employee who even shows up on her sick days?[/quote]
I though it was Crackhead Bob.
I think a lot of the reason that illegals get taken advantage of is because they’re illegal. They can’t go to the police and complain about discrimination or unfair labor practices. Whats wrong with setting up stations at the border with a Social Security office and a line of people signing up for tax IDs?
Quite over simplified, but why not? Let anyone who can contribute in. Tax the crap out of them like we do to current citizens. They’d be able to work legally, pay their taxes and not worry about immigration booting them out.
As a adjunct to this, you’d have to either kick out or force all the current illegals to register. The registered guest workers would receive all the protection under the law that US citizens do, be able to command a somewhat higher wage (hey, its still menial labor if that what they were illegally crossing for!), generate higher tax receipts…
Who mentioned the French guest worker program awhile back? I thought that it was working out pretty well. Since they’re a greater influx of Mexicans et. al from the south, would it work better or worse? I guess I’m not sure what the French program is structured like.
I married an immigrant. Her family is composed entirely of legal immigrants. They’ve lived out the american dream as neurosurgeons, lawyers, PTs and oral surgeons. Those are the people I want in the US.
14th Amendment
Until someone can tell how to get around it we are stuck with birthright citizenship.
A 60-something right wingnut told me recently that he thought it was OK to have illegal immigrants here and it was OK to have birthright citizenship as long as the paid into social security because that would ensure solvency for him.
Un F-ing believable.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
14th Amendment
Until someone can tell how to get around it we are stuck with birthright citizenship.
A 60-something right wingnut told me recently that he thought it was OK to have illegal immigrants here and it was OK to have birthright citizenship as long as the paid into social security because that would ensure solvency for him.
Un F-ing believable.[/quote]
I’m fairly certain we would be compliant with the 14th Amendment if we changed to a rule, prospectively, that to be a citizen you need to have at least one biological parent who is also a legal citizen.
It wouldn’t violate the 14th Amendment because it wouldn’t discriminate against any current citizens, and would be equally applicable to everyone who was going to be born.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
14th Amendment
Until someone can tell how to get around it we are stuck with birthright citizenship.
A 60-something right wingnut told me recently that he thought it was OK to have illegal immigrants here and it was OK to have birthright citizenship as long as the paid into social security because that would ensure solvency for him.
Un F-ing believable.[/quote]
Shit on your kids and posterity. Old people are brilliant. If I ever say the country owes me something (unless it really does… like a tax refund or my bond coupons) someone needs to come and slap some sense into me.
However, we do need to fix that social security thing. But just pushing it off to later with illegals is not the answer.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I’m fairly certain we would be compliant with the 14th Amendment if we changed to a rule, prospectively, that to be a citizen you need to have at least one biological parent who is also a legal citizen.
It wouldn’t violate the 14th Amendment because it wouldn’t discriminate against any current citizens, and would be equally applicable to everyone who was going to be born.[/quote]
Thanks for the good information BB.
Did you read that marma?
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
I’m fairly certain we would be compliant with the 14th Amendment if we changed to a rule, prospectively, that to be a citizen you need to have at least one biological parent who is also a legal citizen.
It wouldn’t violate the 14th Amendment because it wouldn’t discriminate against any current citizens, and would be equally applicable to everyone who was going to be born.
Thanks for the good information BB.
Did you read that marma?[/quote]
So the proposition is to pass an ammendment to the INA…good idea.
Why are they talking about this instead of voting on this law already.
Republicans are suppose to just get this stuff done. That is why I support their control of the house and senate.
Just do it.
This is sort of on topic here, especially with some of the previous posts.
India is building a fence along its border with Bangledesh. I don’t see any problem with this, nor do I see any problem if we were to build a fence along our Southern (and Northern) border(s).