Birthright Citizenship

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]snipeout wrote:

BIG, the problem is that the minute you have differing view point from a liberal they verbally attack you as opposed to answering the question. If an illegal alien crosses the border and gives birth in an American hospital the child is automatically a citizen. The bottom line is that this person had no right being in the country to begin with, they broke a law to get here. Why does this child deserve citizenship. There is nothing linking this child to this country aside from the fact that the parent broke a law to come here and have the child. I believe this a slap in the face to all who have legally come here and attained citizenship legally. The border is a huge problem and it needs to be fixed, not just the flow of illegals but drugs and everything else comes through. [/quote]

-Between the two of you, you’ve managed to touch on most of the major conservative talking points. Let’s see, we have the problem with illegal immigration, the “I have many brown friends” defense, the terrorist situation, a quote from Ronald Reagan(nice touch), illegal drug smuggling, and a broad generalization of liberals. That’s quite an accomplishment on the first page of a thread.
Good Job!

There have been several intelligent and considered responses to your questions so far, but all the two of you are worried about is being labeled a bigot.

So, we build a wall across the Mexican border. Would you really feal safe then, not safer, but safe? Of course not, because FEAR IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF CONSERVATISM. The next problem would be the Northern border. Another wall perhaps? What about the coastline? So maybe a dome isn’t a bad idea. I mean what if a terrorist had a dirty bomb on a rocket on a boat? What about Hawaii? Aren’t they subject to terrorists too? And so on, and so on…

Safety is an illusion. You can insulate yourself all you want, but there’s always the next something to fear(bird flu anyone? Can you build a wall for that?). The cycle continues until you choose to break it.

22

[quote]barbos01 wrote:
It is incidental that the vast majority of illegal aliens streaming in to this country are from Mexico. That is simply the closest third world country. The same way it is incidental that all of the immigrants streaming into western Europe are from eastern Europe and north Africa. The “bigotry” here is not racist, it is classist. The problem is purely economic. [/quote]

Barbos hit the nail on the head. Personally, the whole “fear” reasoning doesn’t figure into my thought pattern whatsoever. Call me selfish, a bigot, or whatever, but if I’ve got to pay taxes and you’re going to benefit from my tax dollars, then you better be paying them too. And don’t break the law by sneaking into my country, expect the benefits that my country affords, and then cry about not being a citizen because you broke the law to get here. I want to know this: when the illegals do come here and have children in this country, who pays for that? Child birth costs approx 5k per pop when you enter the hospital ready to give birth. Who foots that bill? Who pays when the illegals get sick and go to the hospital with no insurance and no money? I’m sorry, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to carry your own damn weight.

23

And you’re saying that the thousands of Jose’s that work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week with no work benefits, no insurance, no health care, and the chance of gettting deported at any given moment… all for less than minimum wage… don’t pull their weight???

How many of you actually live near the border? How many see firsthand what goes on here? Please rread my previous posts before posting.

24

[quote]countrykixass wrote:
barbos01 wrote:
It is incidental that the vast majority of illegal aliens streaming in to this country are from Mexico. That is simply the closest third world country. The same way it is incidental that all of the immigrants streaming into western Europe are from eastern Europe and north Africa. The “bigotry” here is not racist, it is classist. The problem is purely economic.

Barbos hit the nail on the head. Personally, the whole “fear” reasoning doesn’t figure into my thought pattern whatsoever. Call me selfish, a bigot, or whatever, but if I’ve got to pay taxes and you’re going to benefit from my tax dollars, then you better be paying them too. And don’t break the law by sneaking into my country, expect the benefits that my country affords, and then cry about not being a citizen because you broke the law to get here. I want to know this: when the illegals do come here and have children in this country, who pays for that? Child birth costs approx 5k per pop when you enter the hospital ready to give birth. Who foots that bill? Who pays when the illegals get sick and go to the hospital with no insurance and no money? I’m sorry, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to carry your own damn weight.[/quote]

If you were to ask AZ you would be called a conservative bigot because AZ knows all. The fact of the matter is I don’t care how many 12 hour shifts they work or how many days a week they work, they broke the law to get here. The fact of the matter is that immigration laws don’t fit your liberal agenda so you don’t recognize them as laws. I am tired of my taxes subsidizing US citizens and I am damn sure sick and tired of my tax dollars subsidizing illegals. Call me a bigot, call me conservative but you sir are making no case as to why they should be afforded all the services of a US citizen and why their children should be US citizens. Keep the name calling though it’s very fitting of a liberal pacifist.

25

[quote]countrykixass wrote:
barbos01 wrote:
It is incidental that the vast majority of illegal aliens streaming in to this country are from Mexico. That is simply the closest third world country. The same way it is incidental that all of the immigrants streaming into western Europe are from eastern Europe and north Africa. The “bigotry” here is not racist, it is classist. The problem is purely economic.

Barbos hit the nail on the head. Personally, the whole “fear” reasoning doesn’t figure into my thought pattern whatsoever. Call me selfish, a bigot, or whatever, but if I’ve got to pay taxes and you’re going to benefit from my tax dollars, then you better be paying them too. And don’t break the law by sneaking into my country, expect the benefits that my country affords, and then cry about not being a citizen because you broke the law to get here. I want to know this: when the illegals do come here and have children in this country, who pays for that? Child birth costs approx 5k per pop when you enter the hospital ready to give birth. Who foots that bill? Who pays when the illegals get sick and go to the hospital with no insurance and no money? I’m sorry, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to carry your own damn weight.[/quote]

-Probably the same people who pay when American citizens with no money get sick or have children(and there are way more of them by the way). I have a sneaking suspicion you’re not okay with paying for that either. Or, am I wrong?
Citizenship is not necessarily required to “pull your own weight”. Besides, I’m not sure how many illegals are breaking in EXPECTING benefits. If they are here working(contributing) illegally, for less than minimum wage, and they get sick or injured, what would you have them do? Got back to whatever country they came from? Die? What?

Why is it so difficult for people to have compassion for other people, no matter where they’re from, just because they’re people.
You know, all that Golden Rule stuff they talk about in the Bible.

-Oh, and fear does seem to be figuring into your thought process here. Maybe not physical fear of terrorists or something like that, but fear of a change in your lifestyle. Maybe it’s higher taxes, increased medical costs, increased insurance costs, fear of getting screwed over in favor of those who aren’t “pulling their weight”, etc.?

26

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
-Between the two of you, you’ve managed to touch on most of the major conservative talking points. Let’s see, we have the problem with illegal immigration, the “I have many brown friends” defense, the terrorist situation, a quote from Ronald Reagan(nice touch), illegal drug smuggling, and a broad generalization of liberals. That’s quite an accomplishment on the first page of a thread.
Good Job!

There have been several intelligent and considered responses to your questions so far, but all the two of you are worried about is being labeled a bigot.

So, we build a wall across the Mexican border. Would you really feal safe then, not safer, but safe? Of course not, because FEAR IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF CONSERVATISM. The next problem would be the Northern border. Another wall perhaps? What about the coastline? So maybe a dome isn’t a bad idea. I mean what if a terrorist had a dirty bomb on a rocket on a boat? What about Hawaii? Aren’t they subject to terrorists too? And so on, and so on…

Safety is an illusion. You can insulate yourself all you want, but there’s always the next something to fear(bird flu anyone? Can you build a wall for that?). The cycle continues until you choose to break it.[/quote]

The lefties love to tell the right they are wrong. They are bigots. They are fear mongering. But where is their plan?

This is why the left - in spite of the pummeling that the right is taking right now - will continue to lose. You guys have no ideas. Being against something just because a conservative is for it is not a remedy to the problem. Against gay marraige? You are a religous zealot. For tougher immigration policies? A bigot. If you are not willng to be part of the answer, then you are part of the problem.

If you don’t think that illegal immigration is a problem - you are either living in a fantasy world, or far enough away from the border that you are ignorant to what is happening.

One of the biggest liberals on this site - Hspder - is even in favor of a much stricter border policy with Mexico. He is one of the only liberals on here that can voice an idea. I rarely agree with his ideas, and we have had more than our fair share of broo-hahas The rest of you act like a pack of starved jackals.

So where is the left’s ideas? If tightening the border is so bad - what would the pro-illegal alien pack have us do?

27

[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
And you’re saying that the thousands of Jose’s that work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week with no work benefits, no insurance, no health care, and the chance of gettting deported at any given moment… all for less than minimum wage… don’t pull their weight???

How many of you actually live near the border? How many see firsthand what goes on here? Please rread my previous posts before posting.[/quote]

FYI - nopal_juventus is only like 18 or 19 years old. He thinks that the U.S. owes everyone in Mexico a free ride. Nothing more than an idealistic kid.

If Mexico won’t provide these same benefits for their own citizens, why should the U.S. do it for someone here illegaly?

Why is the U.S. the only country in this hemisphere that is required to dole out free health care to illegal aliens? If strict borders are such a horrible and nasty thing - then why is Mexico’s southern border tighter than a drum?

You liberal bastards want the U.S. to quit being a superpower, yet you think it is our responsibility to give free assistance to people who have broken the law to get here. I call bullshit.

28

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
countrykixass wrote:
barbos01 wrote:
It is incidental that the vast majority of illegal aliens streaming in to this country are from Mexico. That is simply the closest third world country. The same way it is incidental that all of the immigrants streaming into western Europe are from eastern Europe and north Africa. The “bigotry” here is not racist, it is classist. The problem is purely economic.

Barbos hit the nail on the head. Personally, the whole “fear” reasoning doesn’t figure into my thought pattern whatsoever. Call me selfish, a bigot, or whatever, but if I’ve got to pay taxes and you’re going to benefit from my tax dollars, then you better be paying them too. And don’t break the law by sneaking into my country, expect the benefits that my country affords, and then cry about not being a citizen because you broke the law to get here. I want to know this: when the illegals do come here and have children in this country, who pays for that? Child birth costs approx 5k per pop when you enter the hospital ready to give birth. Who foots that bill? Who pays when the illegals get sick and go to the hospital with no insurance and no money? I’m sorry, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to carry your own damn weight.

-Probably the same people who pay when American citizens with no money get sick or have children(and there are way more of them by the way). I have a sneaking suspicion you’re not okay with paying for that either. Or, am I wrong?
Citizenship is not necessarily required to “pull your own weight”. Besides, I’m not sure how many illegals are breaking in EXPECTING benefits. If they are here working(contributing) illegally, for less than minimum wage, and they get sick or injured, what would you have them do? Got back to whatever country they came from? Die? What?

Why is it so difficult for people to have compassion for other people, no matter where they’re from, just because they’re people.
You know, all that Golden Rule stuff they talk about in the Bible.

-Oh, and fear does seem to be figuring into your thought process here. Maybe not physical fear of terrorists or something like that, but fear of a change in your lifestyle. Maybe it’s higher taxes, increased medical costs, increased insurance costs, fear of getting screwed over in favor of those who aren’t “pulling their weight”, etc.?
[/quote]

You have got to be kidding right? You think anyone wants to pay more taxes, increased medical and increased insurance costs to foot the bill for anyone else? I don’t wanna pay for the crackhead or the junkie down the street or the illegal that just popped through the hole in the fence. This is not a socialist society, I work for my money, yet I get taxed to help support the family down the street thats to lazy to get a second job or the illegal who got hurt or how about the illegal that robbed the gas station and is now in my jail. Now my tax dollars are subsidizing his criminal activities. You have pretty much not offered anything to this thread other than name calling. You will not convince me as to why I or anyone else should pay for non-citizens.

29

What freaking benefits are you talking about??!?!?! Please, please be so kind as to tell me how the hell they drain your tax dollars. They don’t use medical services, they don’t get handouts, they don’t crowd schools (we have the highest dropout rate of any ethnic group), they don’t get paid minimum wage, they get absolutely no benefits!!! How many times do I have to say it? How many of you have actually read what I wrote the first time?

FYI rainjack, just because I’m a kid and I disagree with you makes my opinion invalid… right?

30

Where’d you get that idea? We have a constant influx of people from Nicaragua, Belize, Costa Rica, etc. coming through Yucatan to Mexico City… how do you think they get all the way to Ciudad Juarez?

31

You’re not paying for anything. And I never said I supported illegal immigration, I’m simply dispelling various myths surrounding illegal immigrants.

32

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
countrykixass wrote:
barbos01 wrote:
It is incidental that the vast majority of illegal aliens streaming in to this country are from Mexico. That is simply the closest third world country. The same way it is incidental that all of the immigrants streaming into western Europe are from eastern Europe and north Africa. The “bigotry” here is not racist, it is classist. The problem is purely economic.

Barbos hit the nail on the head. Personally, the whole “fear” reasoning doesn’t figure into my thought pattern whatsoever. Call me selfish, a bigot, or whatever, but if I’ve got to pay taxes and you’re going to benefit from my tax dollars, then you better be paying them too. And don’t break the law by sneaking into my country, expect the benefits that my country affords, and then cry about not being a citizen because you broke the law to get here. I want to know this: when the illegals do come here and have children in this country, who pays for that? Child birth costs approx 5k per pop when you enter the hospital ready to give birth. Who foots that bill? Who pays when the illegals get sick and go to the hospital with no insurance and no money? I’m sorry, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to carry your own damn weight.

-Probably the same people who pay when American citizens with no money get sick or have children(and there are way more of them by the way). I have a sneaking suspicion you’re not okay with paying for that either. Or, am I wrong?
Citizenship is not necessarily required to “pull your own weight”. Besides, I’m not sure how many illegals are breaking in EXPECTING benefits. If they are here working(contributing) illegally, for less than minimum wage, and they get sick or injured, what would you have them do? Got back to whatever country they came from? Die? What?

Why is it so difficult for people to have compassion for other people, no matter where they’re from, just because they’re people.
You know, all that Golden Rule stuff they talk about in the Bible.

-Oh, and fear does seem to be figuring into your thought process here. Maybe not physical fear of terrorists or something like that, but fear of a change in your lifestyle. Maybe it’s higher taxes, increased medical costs, increased insurance costs, fear of getting screwed over in favor of those who aren’t “pulling their weight”, etc.?
[/quote]

AZ-
seriously-did you just come across the border yourself, because there is no way in the world you’re actually paying taxes and writing this bullshit-NO, I’m not ok with paying for the citizens who are free-loafers either, but that’s what my gov’t has designated my tax dollars for at the moment-they were in no way intended to care for the rest of the planet that don’t live here-and if an illegal did get sick here working for whatever, I would bill their fucking gov’t and send their ass packing-do you not get it man-they broke the law to get here-they don’t contribute to our tax base-I can be compassionate as hell, as long as their not over here leaching off my ass-And your right man, fear does motivate me-I fear that may paycheck will become smaller and smaller to keep taking care of their asses-do you think if you crossed the border into Mexico as an illegal that they would take care of you? Good luck!

33

[quote]rainjack wrote:
AZMojo wrote:

The lefties love to tell the right they are wrong. They are bigots. They are fear mongering. But where is their plan?

Against gay marraige? You are a religous zealot. For tougher immigration policies? A bigot. If you are not willng to be part of the answer, then you are part of the problem.

If you don’t think that illegal immigration is a problem - you are either living in a fantasy world, or far enough away from the border that you are ignorant to what is happening.

So where is the left’s ideas? If tightening the border is so bad - what would the pro-illegal alien pack have us do? [/quote]

You’re wrong! (I had to:)

I don’t recall calling anybody a zealot or a bigot. In fact, I generally don’t resort to name calling at all, it’s juvenile. There are better ways to agitate.

Next, I agree with you about the left losing. I just don’t agree with why. Yes, in today’s America the right will continue to win, but to say to yourself that it isn’t based on fear…well, you’d be kidding yourself.
The right does indeed have all the solutions, even when there aren’t actual problems. That’s the problem. But, don’t get me wrong, the left is guilty of this too. The system is broken. Do I have a way to fix the system? No, I don’t, but that doesn’t make it less broken.

-I didn’t say the border wasn’t a problem. That’s you’re interpretation based on the label you’ve given me. I said that our economy relies on illegal migrant workers. You’re from El Paso right? Do you dispute my statement? Okay then. Do I think that building a wall is the answer? Again, no. What is it, about a 2000 mile border? How high would that wall be? How much would it cost to finish the Southern part of Fortress America? Probably trillions. That’s alot. After that was spent, do you think there would be no more illegal aliens? Of course not. Fewer certainly, but they come from all over. Ask anybody who lives on the either coast.
As far as solutions go, maybe we could implement an effective migrant worker program, but that would be difficult since it would rely on farmers employing legal migrants(surely with more pay/benefits than they get now) instead of the illegals that would still come. Since you’re a conservative, you understand that business is business, and less labor costs means more profits, so…back to square one. I do think we should institute some type of electronic surveilance along the border to help the Border Patrol, but the rest should come from policy changes.

-Why should somebody born here illegally be a citizen? Well, for now, because the Constitution says so that’s why. It’s more than a little ironic how conservatives are quick to change the Constitution when it suits their agenda, but God forbid somebody brings up gun control.

-America is the greatest country in the world, no doubt. It got that way, in part, by allowing immigants from all over the world to come here and pursue their dreams. Now we want to shut it down, and only allow those that we hand pick to come over. It isn’t right and it isn’t American. There’s enough pie for everybody. Don’t hog the whole thing.

34

[quote]rainjack wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
You liberal bastards want the U.S. to quit being a superpower, yet you think it is our responsibility to give free assistance to people who have broken the law to get here. I call bullshit.
[/quote]

-There you go with that liberal thing again.

-I do indeed want, and expect, the U.S. to remain a superpower. Can’t we use our powers for good rather than evil Rainjack? We’re the wealthiest country on the planet man. See my previous pie analogy.

35

[quote]snipeout wrote:

You have got to be kidding right? You think anyone wants to pay more taxes, increased medical and increased insurance costs to foot the bill for anyone else? I don’t wanna pay for the crackhead or the junkie down the street or the illegal that just popped through the hole in the fence. This is not a socialist society, I work for my money, yet I get taxed to help support the family down the street thats to lazy to get a second job or the illegal who got hurt or how about the illegal that robbed the gas station and is now in my jail. Now my tax dollars are subsidizing his criminal activities. You have pretty much not offered anything to this thread other than name calling. You will not convince me as to why I or anyone else should pay for non-citizens.[/quote]

Why do you people keep calling me a name-caller?

-Dude, do they at least give you bib when you’re being spoon fed this crap, because it’s making a mess?
Being in NJ, I wouldn’t image that you’re very intimate with the “just popped through the fence” crowd, but , at least according to my newspapers, they are not running around holding up gas stations as a rule(Rainjack, any thoughts?).

-You don’t want to pay for jails? What do you propose? Let 'em go? Again, jails are filled primarily with Americans. Paying taxes to support the infrastructure of our country is not “socialist”, it’s just society. People living among other people. It’s not a bad thing.
Why wouldn’t you feel honored if your tax dollars were used to help somebody beat an addiction, or feed their kids? You’d rather have them spent on a wall? Interesting.

36

Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers an estimated $70 billion a year and contribute to the growing overpopulation of many of our cities. How can we call ourselves a sovereign nation when we can’t even secure our borders.

I wish the knee-jerk open border supporters would look at the numbers instead of focusing on ethnicity and insisting that it is somehow our responsibility to provide for border crossing criminals at the expense of our own declining standard of living.

Much of what makes this country special is it’s ethnic diversity; my wife is a LEGAL immigrant. This rich history does not, however justify open borders and illegal immigration in any way shape or form. I also don’t see how anyone can support open borders when there are plenty of Islamic extremists who are simply dying to come to this country and wreak havoc.

37

I’ve noticed that, not surprisingly, this issue is being simplified into a “Liberal” vs. “Conservative” argument. Please stop. Neither the Democrats nor Republicans have been serious about illegal immigration, because if they were then at least one of the parties would have made an effort to do something about it.

When will many of you folks stop being so fucking partisan and start being Americans?

38

[quote]snipeout wrote:
I fail to see where this post has made me a bigot.

BIG, the problem is that the minute you have differing view point from a liberal they verbally attack you as opposed to answering the question. If an illegal alien crosses the border and gives birth in an American hospital the child is automatically a citizen. The bottom line is that this person had no right being in the country to begin with, they broke a law to get here. Why does this child deserve citizenship. There is nothing linking this child to this country aside from the fact that the parent broke a law to come here and have the child. I believe this a slap in the face to all who have legally come here and attained citizenship legally. The border is a huge problem and it needs to be fixed, not just the flow of illegals but drugs and everything else comes through. [/quote]

Excellent points snipe. I particularly like your point about the fact that a child of illegal aliens has no connection to this country other than to have criminal parents.

I get tired of being accused of being a bigot, racist, whatever, every single time I post something entertaining the idea about a strong southern border. It’s pretty ridiculas. If the lefties would stop and think about it for a moment, they wouldn’t post such knee jerk ridiculas replies.

39

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
rainjack wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
You liberal bastards want the U.S. to quit being a superpower, yet you think it is our responsibility to give free assistance to people who have broken the law to get here. I call bullshit.

-There you go with that liberal thing again.

-I do indeed want, and expect, the U.S. to remain a superpower. Can’t we use our powers for good rather than evil Rainjack? We’re the wealthiest country on the planet man. See my previous pie analogy.[/quote]

That was aimed at our resident teenaged immigration expert.

But just because we are wealthy does not mean we can’t try and keep the barnacles cleaned off our underside the best we can, does it?

40

[quote]Robobrewer wrote:
I’ve noticed that, not surprisingly, this issue is being simplified into a “Liberal” vs. “Conservative” argument. Please stop. Neither the Democrats nor Republicans have been serious about illegal immigration, because if they were then at least one of the parties would have made an effort to do something about it.

When will many of you folks stop being so fucking partisan and start being Americans?
[/quote]

My reference to liberal v. conservative was not in the corporate sense. In fact I named probably yhe biggest liberal on this website as being in favor of much stricter border controls.

It is reference to the liberals that can do nothing on here but name call and naysay.

But it’s nice of you to read all of what I write instead of just what you want.