'Birthers.' It Ain't Over, I'm Sure

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
189

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
In my humble opinion, the POTUS should be the single most vetted person in the country.

We should have every piece of information on that person made totally public. Birth certificates, ALL school transcripts, parking tickets, fucking netflix cue.

Christ this is the most powerful person on earth…everything should be transparent.

How can anybody argue with that??[/quote]

Disagree completely. Next thing you know we’re requiring the same of the VP, S of T, etc. etc. 30 years from now we’re requiring all CEOs of big businesses.

There are plenty of powerful people in the world, it’s a slippery slope and releasing all private information is not something I’d endorse.[/quote]

Lanky, if you were going to hire somebody that important to run your company…you are going to dig into EVERY aspect of their background…education, criminal record, ability to work in the U.S…references, background check, credit history ect.

Shit, I do that for manager level positions I hire for in my company…why should the most powerful person in the country be exempt? [/quote]

There is a difference between an HR exec running a criminal background check, etc. and releasing that information to the entire world. [/quote]

Except we are hiring him to run the entire country…he works for us.

It’s simply a matter of scale, politicians should not be exempt.

[/quote]

A CEOs background check is not shared with the entire company.[/quote]

A CEO does not control Naval battle groups and Thermonuclear weapons either.[/quote]

As usual, I’m a little late to the party, but I felt it prudent to weigh in on this particular part of the discussion. Let’s see what the constitution says, shall we?

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Natural born citizen? Check
Over 35? Check
14 years resident in the US? Check

END OF DISCUSSION

If you don’t like the requirements for president, then run for congress, draft an amendment and put it to vote. But THAT’S all it takes according to the CONSTITUTION (you know, that document that has been eroded for the last half a century or so?).

All the rest of it is just MEDIA bullshit, making mountains out of molehills, making chicken salad out of chicken shit and extreme assholes on BOTH sides of the aisle shouting lies at the top of their lungs.

It’s just a distraction, though. Congress has been in the pockets of the Super Rich for some time now. It isn’t about Obama’s birth certificate, it never was. It’s about SQUEEZING the middle class dry and making the Super Rich, RICHER. IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY. “Democracy” here is DEAD, carved up by lobbyists and special interest groups.

Our country is in decline in so many ways you can’t really comprehend it all at once. It is fundamentally broken. And, like every other empire that preceded it, the US will surely decline, kicking and screaming about birth certificates and dimpled chads the whole way - cuz that’s what the MEDIA tells us to think about. Bunch of fucking sheep…
[/quote]

Yes you are late to the party AC, and if you had bothered to read any of the previous posts you would have seen that I am NOT a birther. I merely wanted the same vetting standards for the leader of the free world as I would for hiring a company’s CEO.

Please refrain from jumping into threads that you have no idea of the discussion. I makes you look ignorant.

You can keep your 400 word essays in SAMA.[/quote]

I’ll take my 400 word essays wherever the fuck I want.

I read the thread and my POINT was that the CONSTITUTION only requires age, natural citizen and time in country. It DOESN’T MATTER what you want or what you think, the most important document in the Land is pretty clear on this so it’s a moot point.

That’s the flaw in our representative democracy (one of them) - there is no vetting. As a result, ass hats like Marion Barry get elected after being arrested for cocaine. Watching that trainwreck of a political career is almost as entertaining as watching a monkey try to fuck a football.

[/quote]

Haha Damn you Chicken, you are missing my attempt at humor!

I was not agreeing with the thread, I was arguing with Lanky about what would be acceptable background info on the President. We (Lanky and I) were not discussing the birther issue…I never said that Obama did not follow the law of the land.

If you can find where I said that, I will happily apologize to you.

Easy now big fella.

And I too will require the infamous monkey/football fuck video.

190

Did Obama HAVE to show his birth certificate? Meh, maybe, maybe not.

SHOULD Obama have? I think so.

Why? Because if I am running for president, I want to earn the public trust. I want you to want to trust me.

I am going to be pro-active in winning your support, and if showing my BC does that, then so be it. Because as a smart candidate, the end game is public approval.

This is what Obama failed to see. He used this smug attitude, “if you question me, you are racist”, when in reality, he could have spun it to his advantage.

Obama is a great orator, but he is impulsive which makes him foolish. He has stretched himself too far with people, because he will not stay firm with his position. He is too afraid to choose a side, so he dances back and forth, making his lose credibility.

191

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Did Obama HAVE to show his birth certificate? Meh, maybe, maybe not.

SHOULD Obama have? I think so.

Why? Because if I am running for president, I want to earn the public trust. I want you to want to trust me.

I am going to be pro-active in winning your support, and if showing my BC does that, then so be it. Because as a smart candidate, the end game is public approval.

This is what Obama failed to see. He used this smug attitude, “if you question me, you are racist”, when in reality, he could have spun it to his advantage.

Obama is a great orator, but he is impulsive which makes him foolish. He has stretched himself too far with people, because he will not stay firm with his position. He is too afraid to choose a side, so he dances back and forth, making his lose credibility.[/quote]

He never used the race card. Though many of his supporters did.

And you are right, he should have shown it…and now he did.

I think, more than anything, the wait was politically-motivated: let Republican hopefuls build their campaigns on the issue (Trump did entirely, others used it on and off) and then tear that foundation out from under them.

192

Though I do agree that he is overly cautious. Never thought I’d say this but at times I miss dubya’s impetuousness.

193

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Way to spin this as a “victory”. The birthers were just proven wrong.

Settling on their talking points: The hard core will go on about how the BC is a fake, most will simply declare themselves victorious for “forcing” Obama to show his certificate.

Of course, for some people this isn’t about race at all. They were just hoping for some technicality. Still, why wasn’t the first BC enough?

Lies work.
[/quote]

Nice to see that you too agree that Obama hadn’t proven his qualifications to be president until now. That actually makes the birthers right.[/quote]

Wouldn’t his credentials be verified prior to the election? I’m thinking that the FBI handles it.

195

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

Wouldn’t his credentials be verified prior to the election? I’m thinking that the FBI handles it.

[/quote]

Nope…The FBI does NOT vet Presidential candidates.

And before Irish comes back with his astounding lack of knowledge on the subject, Senators/Congressmen are given Secret clearances. Notice I said “given”.

I recently had a TS clearance renewed, and by associations alone, if I had the ones Obama has, I wouldn’t have gotten it in the first place.

196

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

Wouldn’t his credentials be verified prior to the election? I’m thinking that the FBI handles it.

[/quote]

Stop using logic. That has no place here.[/quote]

You’re right, I’m sure his opposition has known the truth but just let someone who didn’t and doesn’t meet the prerequisites to be the president of the United States to get elected and serve his term.

Was it all just a clever scheme to build up Trump’s campaign for the presidency?

197

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Did Obama HAVE to show his birth certificate? Meh, maybe, maybe not.

SHOULD Obama have? I think so.

Why? Because if I am running for president, I want to earn the public trust. I want you to want to trust me.

I am going to be pro-active in winning your support, and if showing my BC does that, then so be it. Because as a smart candidate, the end game is public approval.

This is what Obama failed to see. He used this smug attitude, “if you question me, you are racist”, when in reality, he could have spun it to his advantage.

Obama is a great orator, but he is impulsive which makes him foolish. He has stretched himself too far with people, because he will not stay firm with his position. He is too afraid to choose a side, so he dances back and forth, making his lose credibility.[/quote]

He never used the race card. Though many of his supporters did.

And you are right, he should have shown it…and now he did.

I think, more than anything, the wait was politically-motivated: let Republican hopefuls build their campaigns on the issue (Trump did entirely, others used it on and off) and then tear that foundation out from under them.[/quote]

I disagree.

He did this because of a USA Today poll that said a small number of people were definitely convinced Obama was born in the US. Couple that with high gas prices, shitty economy/jobs situation, etc., and a lesser than ideal approval rating, this was Obama and the White House’ idea of damage control.

Trump pulled Obama’s bitch card, which only weakens Obama’s position as a man of strength and conviction. Trump is actually brilliant with this, because honestly everyone knows Trump is a clown. But the clown made the POTUS jump.

198

There’s nothing wrong with paying your bills, loans etc. off several years late either. The entity to whom you owe must not get suspicious or angry if you pay 2-3 years late. The fact that you eventually do proves that you were always going to. So get off my ass because Obama will pay my mortgage in a couple years. It’s better than never.

199

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Did Obama HAVE to show his birth certificate? Meh, maybe, maybe not.

SHOULD Obama have? I think so.

Why? Because if I am running for president, I want to earn the public trust. I want you to want to trust me.

I am going to be pro-active in winning your support, and if showing my BC does that, then so be it. Because as a smart candidate, the end game is public approval.

This is what Obama failed to see. He used this smug attitude, “if you question me, you are racist”, when in reality, he could have spun it to his advantage.

Obama is a great orator, but he is impulsive which makes him foolish. He has stretched himself too far with people, because he will not stay firm with his position. He is too afraid to choose a side, so he dances back and forth, making his lose credibility.[/quote]

He never used the race card. Though many of his supporters did.

And you are right, he should have shown it…and now he did.

I think, more than anything, the wait was politically-motivated: let Republican hopefuls build their campaigns on the issue (Trump did entirely, others used it on and off) and then tear that foundation out from under them.[/quote]

I disagree.

He did this because of a USA Today poll that said a small number of people were definitely convinced Obama was born in the US. Couple that with high gas prices, shitty economy/jobs situation, etc., and a lesser than ideal approval rating, this was Obama and the White House’ idea of damage control.

Trump pulled Obama’s bitch card, which only weakens Obama’s position as a man of strength and conviction. Trump is actually brilliant with this, because honestly everyone knows Trump is a clown. But the clown made the POTUS jump.[/quote]

Obama jumped in 2008, some people just refused to accept reality.

200

I actually think this was a calculated move by Obama’s team. I think they wanted to give credence to Trump as a candidate for the GOP, knowing that establishment right wing does not want this because it detracts from independent voters. Trump is too brash and will discredit himself because he has no political tact. He is right about a lot of things and has some good ideas, but he will eventually damage himself so much that he eill not be taken seriously.

BTW I really dont care about Obama’s birth certificate anymore. Its not like we can take back the two years of bullshit he has provided. We need to focus on damage control from what is going on right now. That includes making sure he is not re-elected.

201

[quote]Bigpull wrote:
I actually think this was a calculated move by Obama’s team. [/quote]
I agree with this. I think his team LIKED the birth certificate issue to come up, especially when the media came up with the “birther” term. It gave them an instant way to marginalize anyone who brought the issue up, and then discredit anything else they might say.

On the race issue, I really think it was a non-factor for most. The real items that raised the question were the fact that his biological father is a foreign national, and most of his childhood was spent abroad. Given those facts, its a pretty natural question to ask, especially when it became fueled by his refusal to show the full document. And now that we see how easy it would have been for him to show it YEARS AGO, it has clearly been calculated on his part to give them an excuse to paint some of his detractors as racists.

202

If this was a calculated move, he blew his wad too early. He should have let the momentum build and build, and when/if Trump had won the nomination, hit him with it then. Leaving no chance for anyone to pick up the slack.

203

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
If this was a calculated move, he blew his wad too early. He should have let the momentum build and build, and when/if Trump had won the nomination, hit him with it then. Leaving no chance for anyone to pick up the slack.

[/quote]

Its for leverage in Budget negotiations.

204

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
If this was a calculated move, he blew his wad too early. He should have let the momentum build and build, and when/if Trump had won the nomination, hit him with it then. Leaving no chance for anyone to pick up the slack.

[/quote]

The only problem with your theory is Trump is not running for President, he’s just going to talk about it until it’s time for the serious candidates to announce and then he’s going to back to being Donald Trump private citizen and TV personality.

205

Well , he’s got nothing to lose , he has millions of threads droning on :slight_smile:

206

[quote]ZEB wrote:

The only problem with your theory is Trump is not running for President, he’s just going to talk about it until it’s time for the serious candidates to announce and then he’s going to back to being Donald Trump private citizen and TV personality.[/quote]

Perhaps. As the other poster said, Trump is a clown. But, he could have (still can) convinced himself that he has a chance, and ran for the nomination. The herd being tricked into thinking he’s a “straight talker” and different from all the complete pussies the Republicans (of which I am not a memeber of.) keep running.

Either way…the birth certificate is/was meaningless. He was born in Hawaii. College records are a different story though. It is still quite possible he was an Indonesian citizen at the time of his enrollment.

207

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

The only problem with your theory is Trump is not running for President, he’s just going to talk about it until it’s time for the serious candidates to announce and then he’s going to back to being Donald Trump private citizen and TV personality.[/quote]

Perhaps. As the other poster said, Trump is a clown. But, he could have (still can) convinced himself that he has a chance, and ran for the nomination. The herd being tricked into thinking he’s a “straight talker” and different from all the complete pussies the Republicans (of which I am not a memeber of.) keep running.[/quote]

I think you have a good point that he is enjoying this process and is probably convinced that he has a chance. But, he also knows that he cannot reveal his true net worth to the American people. After parading around as a billionaire for decades it would destroy his image to reveal the truth. Therefore, he’ll have to suck it up and go back to his world of reality TV and pretending he’s a billionaire.

[quote]Either way…the birth certificate is/was meaningless. He was born in Hawaii. College records are a different story though. It is still quite possible he was an Indonesian citizen at the time of his enrollment.
[/quote]

I agree with this.

208

lol

209

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
There are also people calling it a forgery w PDF layers in the scanned doc…I’m no expert on it though.[/quote]

Its clear that a square document was photocopied on to the green patterned paper. You can draw 4 lines around the interior document. Its also clear that it was lined up very carefully with the host paper.

My assumption is that this is just the way they copied it from the original book though. Its not like they are hiding that a page is being copied with a green background added.[/quote]

theres really nothing new here. depending on how they scanned the document, illustrator can try to create layers. its completely normal.

http://techgrumblings.com/?p=130