Despite assurances to the contrary, the IRS didn’t destroy all of the donor lists scooped up in its tea party targeting - and a check of those lists reveals that the tax agency audited 10 percent of those donors, much higher than the audit rate for average Americans, House Republicans revealed Wednesday.
The committee uncovered new information indicating that after groups provided the information to the IRS, nearly one in 10 donors were subject to audit," Rep. Charles W. Boustany Jr., Louisiana Republican and chairman of the Ways and Means Committee’s oversight panel, told IRS Commissioner John Koskinen at a hearing Wednesday.
“The abuse of discretion and audit selection must be identified and stopped,” he said.
Mr. Koskinen didn’t specifically address the accusations during the hearing, and the IRS didn,t respond to a request for comment late Wednesday evening.
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In my experience, the rate of audit for a normal person is less than 1%.
But give money to a TEA party group, you have a 10% chance of being audited.
In short, you participate in a political movement contrary to the Obama Administration, the Obama administration uses the IRS to target you, an individual.
This is crap out of Stalin’s Russia.
Any person who is not outraged at such bold political abuse of the IRS supports tyranny.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
This is crap out of Stalin’s Russia.
Any person who is not outraged at such bold political abuse of the IRS supports tyranny.
[/quote]
No way, dude. The HUGE difference is that Stalin would have shot you in the head(personally, I’m sure) for contributing to a rival. America doesn’t even punish people for giving to TEA party groups! As long as you’re not doing anything wrong, why not let the government check things out for itself? Are you a terrorist?
No way, dude. The HUGE difference is that Stalin would have shot you in the head(personally, I’m sure) for contributing to a rival. America doesn’t even punish people for giving to TEA party groups! As long as you’re not doing anything wrong, why not let the government check things out for itself? Are you a terrorist?[/quote]
The Stalin analogy was inaccurate to a large degree, but partisan issues aside, federal agencies should never be utilized for partisan political “witch hunts,” regardless of who is being targeted or whose administration is in office.
Does anyone really think this is the first time or the highest profile case of this type of action? I’m sure this stuff has been happening for years and obviously still does.
[quote]JR249 wrote:
…but partisan issues aside, federal agencies should never be utilized for partisan political “witch hunts,” regardless of who is being targeted or whose administration is in office.[/quote]
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Does anyone really think this is the first time or the highest profile case of this type of action? I’m sure this stuff has been happening for years and obviously still does.[/quote]
No, and I don’t doubt similar things have gone on during other administrations, including those of the Republican variety (see the Watergate scandal for starters), but it shouldn’t be swept under the rug or dismissed by partisans across the isle either. We should always strive for a fair rule of law, even if in practice these things will occur from time to time.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Does anyone really think this is the first time or the highest profile case of this type of action? I’m sure this stuff has been happening for years and obviously still does.[/quote]
No, and I don’t doubt similar things have gone on during other administrations, including those of the Republican variety (see the Watergate scandal for starters), but it shouldn’t be swept under the rug or dismissed by partisans across the isle either. We should always strive for a fair rule of law, even if in practice these things will occur from time to time.[/quote]
Certainly. But the fact is, this stuff will continue to happen until major reform happens. When it comes down to it, when someone has power over whether you have a job or not, you start making not so great choices.
It happens to Public Auditors (supposed to be independent but are paid by the client), its how a lot of people get involved in fraud (my boss told me to do it), etc.
So until the game is reformed, I’m resigned to accept this is what we’ll continue to get in one form or another. They can put a band-aid on it, and just like all good politicians and business men, they’ll find away to play within the rules instead of living by the spirit of the rules.
Certainly. But the fact is, this stuff will continue to happen until major reform happens. When it comes down to it, when someone has power over whether you have a job or not, you start making not so great choices.
It happens to Public Auditors (supposed to be independent but are paid by the client), its how a lot of people get involved in fraud (my boss told me to do it), etc.
So until the game is reformed, I’m resigned to accept this is what we’ll continue to get in one form or another. They can put a band-aid on it, and just like all good politicians and business men, they’ll find away to play within the rules instead of living by the spirit of the rules.
[/quote]
I don’t really disagree with any of the above, I guess I just get irked with partisan thinking in political life, at least when it gets to the point that people are biased or blinded to the fact that politicians are human, and when they are caught engaging in unethical, illegal or otherwise immoral activities related to their duties, they should be held accountable, no matter how much you might admire them as individuals or their party’s ideology.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
This is crap out of Stalin’s Russia.
Any person who is not outraged at such bold political abuse of the IRS supports tyranny.
[/quote]
No way, dude. The HUGE difference is that Stalin would have shot you in the head(personally, I’m sure) for contributing to a rival. America doesn’t even punish people for giving to TEA party groups! As long as you’re not doing anything wrong, why not let the government check things out for itself? Are you a terrorist?[/quote]
Stalin didn’t start by killing people. Didn’t take long, mind you.
He started with legal maneuvering.
And then he used “central planning” to use the government to starve his enemies.
I mean, to bring things to today, how do you think that Crimea got filled with Russians? It’s because Stalin literally starved the natives by manipulating the mechanisms of the State.
Tyrants just view the mechanisms of the state as a means to an end.
The IRS is just another weapon to Obama.
So is the DOJ, FBI, State Department, EPA, whatever. He doesn’t care about their mission. He cares that he can use the massive power of the state to choke his enemies and scare opposition.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Stalin didn’t start by killing people. Didn’t take long, mind you.
He started with legal maneuvering.
And then he used “central planning” to use the government to starve his enemies.
I mean, to bring things to today, how do you think that Crimea got filled with Russians? It’s because Stalin literally starved the natives by manipulating the mechanisms of the State.
Tyrants just view the mechanisms of the state as a means to an end.
The IRS is just another weapon to Obama.
So is the DOJ, FBI, State Department, EPA, whatever. He doesn’t care about their mission. He cares that he can use the massive power of the state to choke his enemies and scare opposition.[/quote]
Yes, but personally I think it’s making use of a poor analogy when the Stalin (or Hitler) cards are pulled for examples like this.
These aforementioned authoritarian regimes were totalitarian forms of government that were unique in the history of the world: a state-established, single party dictatorship that used technology and communication to control the social, political, intellectual and cultural components of its subjects’ lives. The caliber at which these tyrants operated is nowhere near that of any modern American politician or political party, so on that point I have to disagree, but as noted above I always think it merits attention when government agencies are used in this manner. It should never be swept under the rug as “that’s just the way it has always been and always will be.”
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Stalin didn’t start by killing people. Didn’t take long, mind you.
He started with legal maneuvering.
And then he used “central planning” to use the government to starve his enemies.
I mean, to bring things to today, how do you think that Crimea got filled with Russians? It’s because Stalin literally starved the natives by manipulating the mechanisms of the State.
Tyrants just view the mechanisms of the state as a means to an end.
The IRS is just another weapon to Obama.
So is the DOJ, FBI, State Department, EPA, whatever. He doesn’t care about their mission. He cares that he can use the massive power of the state to choke his enemies and scare opposition.[/quote]
Again, for comparison, here are the two countries. Do they look the same?
Another thing: Of course Stalin started off by killing people-the slippery slope is a logical fallacy.
Free societies are an historical anomaly. The revolutions of 1848 universally failed and it took 150 years, two world wars, dozens of smaller wars, a Cold War, the atomic bomb and more than a hundred million lives to bring about the moderately stable democracies of western and southern Europe. It can all slip away in one generation with apathy and acquiescence of the people. Indeed it already is.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Does anyone really think this is the first time or the highest profile case of this type of action? I’m sure this stuff has been happening for years and obviously still does.[/quote]
Not at all, but all the more reason to stop it as soon as possible right now. Agreed with JR even though the world doesn’t really operate that way
This is something that typical would cause bipartisan outrage. But not in this politcal climate.
The Obama-Messiah was created but the media, and they will protect him to the very end.
The media won’t due it’s aggressive reporting and plaster the story on it’s front pages and lead it’s nightly broadcasts like when we went to war in Iraq. If this happened under Bush, the media would wake the drones up from their twitter and porn accounts and there would be mass protests/marches/disruptions/etc.
Yes, but personally I think it’s making use of a poor analogy when the Stalin (or Hitler) cards are pulled for examples like this.
These aforementioned authoritarian regimes were totalitarian forms of government that were unique in the history of the world: a state-established, single party dictatorship that used technology and communication to control the social, political, intellectual and cultural components of its subjects’ lives. The caliber at which these tyrants operated is nowhere near that of any modern American politician or political party, so on that point I have to disagree, but as noted above I always think it merits attention when government agencies are used in this manner. It should never be swept under the rug as “that’s just the way it has always been and always will be.”
[/quote]
You seem like a smart guy. Which is why I’m surprised you don’t see the similarities between Barack Obama and a composite villain of equal parts Genghis Khan, Cthulhu, and Nosferatu.
Unrelatedly, this is ridiculous and anyone responsible should lose his job.
Unrelatedly, this is ridiculous and anyone responsible should be in prison.[/quote]
Fixed that for you.
Ideally everyone they wrongfully chose to audit should get to kick them in the nuts hourly while they are in there.
I’ll never understand why people seem to want to hold people in power responsible for administering laws to a lower standard than the people they have power over.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Despite assurances to the contrary, the IRS didn’t destroy all of the donor lists scooped up in its tea party targeting - and a check of those lists reveals that the tax agency audited 10 percent of those donors, much higher than the audit rate for average Americans, House Republicans revealed Wednesday.
+++++++++++++
In my experience, the rate of audit for a normal person is less than 1%.
But give money to a TEA party group, you have a 10% chance of being audited.
[/quote]
I am no fan of Obama and I don’t trust the IRS. But I’m going to play a little bit of Devil’s Advocate. Average rate of audit is less than 1%, but are there not certain groups (small business proprietors, landlords, etc.) who are audited at a higher rate regardless of political associations? And are those particular groups disproportionately present among Tea party group donors, or are they not?
I am inclined to believe the 10% rate reflects some political selection. But 10% vs. less than 1% is not necessarily a valid comparison. 10% vs. whatever the percent is for people with similar occupational and economic profiles as the Tea party donors would be a better comparison (if that is practical to do).
Bypassing Congress, refusing to enforce the law, an Attorney General who’s a convicted criminal, demagoguery - I’d say people are right to be concerned about the Obama administration.
