Birthers are Crazy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

lama,

I don’t actually watch Maddow, she’s a smart enough person but she has no give in her, it is as bad as watching Hannitty.

I don’t post propaganda, like everyone else I post “Opinions” sometimes there are facts to back these up, sometimes there are not, when the statement I see appears false I challenge it, just like people do with me, there is no reason for the hostility on this forum with that in mind I know that I have provoked people but in my defense as a newbie to this section I only acted in response to the way I was treated.

DoubleDuce,

Yes and aside from that it is entirely accurate. People do not believe Obama was born in Kenya because the evidence supports it, people believe Obama was born in Kenya because they can’t stand a (half) black (pseudo) liberal president. yes it is my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that the birther movement, if it had merit, would cut so cleanly down racial and political lines (i.e. it is mostly white conservative males)

122

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
Jewbacca,

Holy Shit a politician lied about something, this is news, please call the press…[/quote]

The most clever thing about liberals is they love to call out conservatives as hypocrites because conservatives (at least social conservatives) strive to have morals, and being human, sometimes fail.

Liberals (who are really totalitarian libertines), on the other hand, have no morals, and that is their defense — “hey, we admit we have no morals, so don’t blame us!”
[/quote]

A brilliant post! Kudos!

Liberals become liberals because they want to get away with something their guilty consciences wouldn’t permit otherwise.

They thus become pure evil.
[/quote]

Democrats have a very broad base. Broader than the republican base. I’m not saying republicans are one-dimensional, just not as multi-dimensional as the democrat party. I usually vote democrat, but I’m independent. The groups I disagree with the most are those demanding a free lunch and social issues like abortion. Basically, I’m generally socially conservative and economically conservative leaning towards the middle economically.

For reference, the democratic party as a whole is socially liberal and economically conservative and republicans are socially conservative and economically liberal. In other words, democrats believe in social free for all and republicans believe in economic free for all speaking in simplistic black and white terms which admittedly is far from %100 correct.

The point I’m making is that you can’t with any accuracy make broad sweeping statements like that. If I were to use the same logic, I would say that republicans become republicans because they want to alleviate their guilty conscience from wanting to hoard all the wealth at the expense of the middle class and society thus becoming evil.

But I know better than that and I know it’s not all black and white. Even Bill O’Reiley recognizes not all issues are black and white. By the way, I feel he is a man worthy of much respect, much more so than the likes of John Steward and some other ‘liberals’ whatever that means now.

simplicity=/=correctness
Sure simplify as much as possible, but not to the point of being wildly inaccurate.

I’ll step down from my soapbox now. [/quote]

Very thoughtful response!

I would answer by saying that having a middle ground gives all the advantages to those who’re up to no good. Notice how conservatives speak of right-and-wrong while liberals say there’s no such thing. How do conservatives gain by interacting or giving creedance to people who think like that?

Short answer: they don’t. Its like a compromise between a healthy person and a vampire. Guess who wins THAT one…

It is this sort of compromising that has led us to the world we have today.

123

People in general don’t like folks lying on their resume to receive more money and financial aid…this is the main belief intelligent people have about Obama’s resume “alteration”.

He lied about being born in Kenya to receive additional financial aid and to sell more books.

Two points.

First…somebody who lied that blatantly to steal money (up until 10 years ago) should prooooobably not be the leader of the free world.

Second…if a GOP president had done that, he would have been crucified by the media. Yet, Obama gets a pass…why?

124

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
People in general don’t like folks lying on their resume to receive more money and financial aid…this is the main belief intelligent people have about Obama’s resume “alteration”.

He lied about being born in Kenya to receive additional financial aid and to sell more books.

Two points.

First…somebody who lied that blatantly to steal money (up until 10 years ago) should prooooobably not be the leader of the free world.

Second…if a GOP president had done that, he would have been crucified by the media. Yet, Obama gets a pass…why?[/quote]

He is getting crucified, just by conservatives. Bush got crucified by liberals.

Clinton got crucified by republicans.

The point is that basically, the party not in power will make their stand by attacking the party that is whether it’s republican or democrat. It’s been that way for a very long time.

125

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
People in general don’t like folks lying on their resume to receive more money and financial aid…this is the main belief intelligent people have about Obama’s resume “alteration”.

He lied about being born in Kenya to receive additional financial aid and to sell more books.

Two points.

First…somebody who lied that blatantly to steal money (up until 10 years ago) should prooooobably not be the leader of the free world.

Second…if a GOP president had done that, he would have been crucified by the media. Yet, Obama gets a pass…why?[/quote]

He is getting crucified, just by conservatives. Bush got crucified by liberals.

Clinton got crucified by republicans.

The point is that basically, the party not in power will make their stand by attacking the party that is whether it’s republican or democrat. It’s been that way for a very long time.[/quote]

And 90% of the main-stream-media is?

Not republican.

126

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

DoubleDuce,

Yes and aside from that it is entirely accurate. People do not believe Obama was born in Kenya because the evidence supports it, people believe Obama was born in Kenya because they can’t stand a (half) black (pseudo) liberal president. yes it is my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that the birther movement, if it had merit, would cut so cleanly down racial and political lines (i.e. it is mostly white conservative males)[/quote]

And the only reason anyone doesn’t hate Obama is because they have an either open, or closeted hatred of the American way of life. Liberty is, to them, something to fear because it leaves them “victims” of their own decisions. They are little more than children who never grew out of the nursing phase of life and continue to desire suckling at the tit of the productive and for the government to check for boogiemen under the bed so they can get to sleep at night. If we were to dissect it, the people who approve of versus dislike Obama would cut clearly down hard working and self sufficient/responsible lines.

No. It is not accurate, it was a hypothetical insult where, instead of arguing facts and merit, you attributed unsupported and entirely unsubstantiated things to the people who disagree with you. It was on par with, “if you don’t vote for this tax increase, you want to close all schools” type argument or other such nonsense.

127

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

DoubleDuce,

Yes and aside from that it is entirely accurate. People do not believe Obama was born in Kenya because the evidence supports it, people believe Obama was born in Kenya because they can’t stand a (half) black (pseudo) liberal president. yes it is my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that the birther movement, if it had merit, would cut so cleanly down racial and political lines (i.e. it is mostly white conservative males)[/quote]

And the only reason anyone doesn’t hate Obama is because they have an either open, or closeted hatred of the American way of life. Liberty is, to them, something to fear because it leaves them “victims” of their own decisions. They are little more than children who never grew out of the nursing phase of life and continue to desire suckling at the tit of the productive and for the government to check for boogiemen under the bed so they can get to sleep at night. If we were to dissect it, the people who approve of versus dislike Obama would cut clearly down hard working and self sufficient/responsible lines.

[/quote]

This is 100% correct.

Folks will vote for anybody they think will keep sendin’ them checks every week!

128

I see the post before the last one I made completely flew over people’s heads.

129

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I see the post before the last one I made completely flew over people’s heads.[/quote]

No, what you posted doesn’t make sense.

If you believe half of what you said, you’d be voting libertarian or picking through the Republican party to find actual conservatives to vote for.

No Democrat politician shares those values — they might say they do, but they vote and act differently.

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Neither of the prominent parties that will actually get elected share my values. If you really want to know what I believe, I think a 3 party system would be the most democratic since they provide the best choices.

And libertarians are socially and economically liberal so no I don’t share there core values. And I vote democrat for the time being because I think economic issues that democrats uphold are more important than social values. Not to say that fixing some of the social values that conservatives point out won’t help economics but frankly for me as I said earlier in this post there really isn’t a good choice for me.

131

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And I vote democrat for the time being because I think economic issues that democrats uphold are more important than social values. [/quote]

So you’re a socialist?

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And I vote democrat for the time being because I think economic issues that democrats uphold are more important than social values. [/quote]

So you’re a socialist?[/quote]

No, not at that extreme. I’m economically moderate with a bent towards the democratic party. I feel many of the republican’s stances to be leaning away from moderate so I don’t vote for them right now. I don’t believe in trickle down theory, but I also don’t believe in socialism. I feel too little and too much government economic influence can be damaging.

133

To add to that, if I felt republicans were going to be more moderate economically speaking I would vote republican. Part of that is my personal values and the other part is that I believe fixing some social issues like abortion and single parenthood would help economically.

I don’t like extreme right wing social values like attempts to ban contraception and other extreme views so if a republican were that extreme socially and economically moderate and the democrat were mostly moderate on all fronts I would vote democrat.

134

I’ll try to make two axis to visually illustrate my points:

economics

liberal(extreme republican)----------moderate----------conservative(extreme democrat)

I fall barely right of moderate.

social issues

liberal(extreme democrat)----------moderate----------conservative(extreme republican)

I fall smack dab in the middle between moderate and conservative.

135

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And I vote democrat for the time being because I think economic issues that democrats uphold are more important than social values. [/quote]

So you’re a socialist?[/quote]

No, not at that extreme. I’m economically moderate with a bent towards the democratic party. I feel many of the republican’s stances to be leaning away from moderate so I don’t vote for them right now. I don’t believe in trickle down theory, but I also don’t believe in socialism. I feel too little and too much government economic influence can be damaging.[/quote]

Romney is a moderate, bending toward liberal.

Obama, Pelosi, et al, are extreme socialist.

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The thing with Romney is that I don’t know what to believe he says. I think Obama is a little better in that respect. Close to average in consistency for a politician but still far from a saint. So I’m not sure if that really is his stance or not.

I also feel that after Bush, American is still very economically liberal(economically republican) even after Obama because he hasn’t been able to do a whole lot. So it may be true that Obama is very economically conservative(more government control/democrat), I worry about putting a republican in power because of how many republican economic bills that will be passed based on trickle down theory.

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I’m off to the gym now so that’s why it’ll be while before I can respond again.

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DoubleDuce,

see how civil it is when we respect each others opinion. I don’t agree with you but I know I can’t convince you otherwise.

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[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
DoubleDuce,

see how civil it is when we respect each others opinion. I don’t agree with you but I know I can’t convince you otherwise.[/quote]

You dodged issues, claimed victory when none was apparent and in general been quite disingenuous. No one respects that.

140

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Liberals become liberals because they want to get away with something their guilty consciences wouldn’t permit otherwise.

They thus become pure evil.
[/quote]

This is the kind of rhetoric used by genocidal maniacs throughout history.