Birthers are Crazy

[Tiribulus]

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Pay attention Trib, you are being taxed at that rate because you are in business. If you made 14-k last year pumping gas you would pay ZIP!

The government punishes business and in general success. While you are not successful (financially) you are still in business and got caught in the cross hairs.

Are we clear?[/quote]Yeah, We are clearly poor and clearly being bled dry of what little I’m able to earn. The numbers didn’t change and we are not any better off because of WHICH kind of tax it is. You and I would agree on the solution though. Which has nothing to do with taxing anybody else. I have absolutely and sincerely no desire to be personally rich, but I also do not want those lowlife thieves in either party taking anybody else’s money in a corrupt attempt to make me feel better. All I want from them is to LEAVE ME ALONE. All of em.

[Tiribulus]

oops

[Makavali]

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

he wondered aloud about how high his bill was I pointed out the tax rate, read the fucking post shithead, I didn’t offer to do his taxes, I commiserated with him regarding his situation. How the fuck do you get anything done at your “business” when you are doing this shit all day. I could post black you’d pop up and type “white idiot”, grow the fuck up.[/quote]

Arguing with an unemployed angry old man will get you nowhere fast.

[ZEB]

And having anything to do with a 19 year old unemployed New Zealander who lives in his parents basement makes no sense either.

[ZEB]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Pay attention Trib, you are being taxed at that rate because you are in business. If you made 14-k last year pumping gas you would pay ZIP!

The government punishes business and in general success. While you are not successful (financially) you are still in business and got caught in the cross hairs.

Are we clear?[/quote]Yeah, We are clearly poor and clearly being bled dry of what little I’m able to earn. The numbers didn’t change and we are not any better off because of WHICH kind of tax it is. You and I would agree on the solution though. Which has nothing to do with taxing anybody else. I have absolutely and sincerely no desire to be personally rich, but I also do not want those lowlife thieves in either party taking anybody else’s money in a corrupt attempt to make me feel better. All I want from them is to LEAVE ME ALONE. All of em.
[/quote]

Hey buddy, in my first year of business many years ago I quickly learned that the government will never “leave you alone.” And the dems on this board only want the government to have more of our money and more power to tell us what to do. And with Obamacare they’ll even tell us what doctors we can and can’t see.

I do feel for you man. But if I were you I’d do what I did, make even more money. Granted you’ll have to give much of it away in federal and possible state taxes but at least you’ll be living a better life as well.

If I can ever help you with any business ideas feel free to PM me my friend. While Obama is trying to punish business and those who are successful it’s still the greatest country in the world to make money. So, don’t give up EVER!

Zeb

[Rockscar]

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

This is your “apology” tour footage? excellent work, so in none of those cherry picked sentences does he apologize, in fact the entire quote about Europe is this:

"“In America, there’s a failure to appreciate Europe’s leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.”

Where is the apology ZEB? He is saying we should value your history and experience a bit more, not “I’m sorry”. Even you should be able to figure that out. Now fuck off until you find something worthwhile.[/quote]

I have to come in here and agree with the other gents. No AMERICAN President or any of Obama’s predecessors have ever offered so much ridicule of his OWN COUNTRY while out on the road. Not even Jimmy. See, I didn’t have to say apology…the better term is ridiculing and undermining your own country and people.

His speeches abroad should be about the US being a beacon of free markets, individual freedom and liberty. What I see is entirely something else in this one.

[Rockscar]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

Arguing with an unemployed angry old man will get you nowhere fast.[/quote]

My…quite classy, tolerant, forward thinking and inclusive of you. How old are you exactly? What makes you think age is a defect?

[BrianHanson]

Makavali,

I figured that out ( just a bit late).

Sifu, Rockscar,

I think it’s a matter of opinion. The president didn’t bad mouth America, in those same speeches he talked about “American Exceptionalism” and all of the other “traits” that make America the #1 destination for huddled masses anywhere in the world, but he also pointed out that we haven’t always been perfect, that doesn’t add up to an apology. When the President goes to Europe and meets with leaders from countries that we ignored, countries whose laws we violated (Italy/France/Renditions ring a bell) and countries that we essentially told to sit at the kids table while the grown-ups work, the President should bring a little humility, a little bit of “things will be different on my watch” mentality, and without kissing ass letting our allies know that we view them as important. That’s what he did.
All of our Presidents (in recent history anyway) have apologized for at least one blunder on their watch, even for things they were not directly responsible for, since the “Apology Tour” Obama has actually apologized for things, and in the apologies he took the blame and said “we’re sorry” that is the clear difference. But again it is a matter of opinion and perspective.

[ZEB]

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
Makavali,

I figured that out ( just a bit late).[/quote]

Congrats B r i a n you’ve reached the bottom of the barrel for friends around here. But I knew you’d get there eventually.

[quote]
I think it’s a matter of opinion.[/quote]

And that is only one of your problems B r i a n. You are unable to separate fact from opinion. Obama did in fact apologize for America as was proven to you in the many clips, and links.

The president didn’t bad mouth America,

He did so many, many times. But that gives us a look into your own perspective of this great nation doesn’t it?

in those same speeches he talked about “American Exceptionalism” and all of the other “traits” that make America the #1 destination for huddled masses anywhere in the world, but he also pointed out that we haven’t always been perfect, that doesn’t add up to an apology. When the President goes to Europe and meets with leaders from countries that we ignored, countries whose laws we violated (Italy/France/Renditions ring a bell) and countries that we essentially told to sit at the kids table while the grown-ups work, the President should bring a little humility, a little bit of “things will be different on my watch” mentality, and without kissing ass letting our allies know that we view them as important. That’s what he did.
All of our Presidents (in recent history anyway) have apologized for at least one blunder on their watch, even for things they were not directly responsible for, since the “Apology Tour” Obama has actually apologized for things, and in the apologies he took the blame and said “we’re sorry” that is the clear difference. But again it is a matter of opinion and perspective.

That’s just it, you don’t say those things about a country you’ve just been elected to lead.

[BrianHanson]

ZEB,

My perspective of America is never in doubt, I love it, I spent some of the best years of my life wearing a uniform, sleeping in mud and having a great time doing it. Do I think America can improve, sure I do, but I fully expect that the USA will rise back up economically, internationally and (ahem… for lack of a better word) spiritually, eventually crushing China just like it did the USSR for many of the reasons Obama said, American Exceptionalism isn’t just saying we’re the best, it’s proving it by fixing what’s broken and making sure that every American has a chance to make a difference. Or are you saying that everything here is exactly the way you want it?

[ZEB]

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

My perspective of America is never in doubt, I love it…[/quote]

Unlike your hero Obama, who seems to not like it quite so much. He’s trying his hardest to change our entire system. If given another four years with no electorate to answer to he will undoubtedly do so.

I spent some of the best years of my life wearing a uniform, sleeping in mud and having a great time doing it.

Good for you for serving!

Do I think America can improve, sure I do, but I fully expect that the USA will rise back up economically, internationally and (ahem… for lack of a better word) spiritually, eventually crushing China just like it did the USSR for many of the reasons Obama said, American Exceptionalism isn’t just saying we’re the best, it’s proving it by fixing what’s broken and making sure that every American has a chance to make a difference. Or are you saying that everything here is exactly the way you want it?

I agree I think we can always improve. But you don’t improve by hiking taxes on job creator’s, raising the number of people on food stamps to record levels, and taking over 1/7th of the economy with Obamacare. (Hopefully that mess will be struck down by the Supreme Court).

You improve by getting the government off the backs of the people and creating opportunity in the process. These are things that are very foreign to the left. The left thinks that we can spend our way out of this recession and in the process hand out free money to the poor. This only rewards them for not having a job and creates no opportunities.

But we saw in Wisconsin a huge voter turnout in favor of the republican Governor who has cut government programs, lowered taxes and in the process lowered unemployment. And, as I’ve said on prior occasions, every state that has had a liberal in charge for a long period of time is in trouble today!

Liberalism has failed and hopefully the people will speak out in November and send Obama (the great apologizer) packing!

[Fletch1986]

Speaking of China, one thing that I think will bankrupt them is that when their current generation gets older, the younger ones will not be able to support them because of their one child rule and the fact that they abort and throw out girls hence the crazy male:female ratio. Think Europe x20.

[ZEB]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Speaking of China, one thing that I think will bankrupt them is that when their current generation gets older, the younger ones will not be able to support them because of their one child rule and the fact that they abort and throw out girls hence the crazy male:female ratio. Think Europe x20. [/quote]

That’s an interesting insight Fletch.

[Fletch1986]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

My perspective of America is never in doubt, I love it…[/quote]

Unlike your hero Obama, who seems to not like it quite so much. He’s trying his hardest to change our entire system. If given another four years with no electorate to answer to he will undoubtedly do so.

I spent some of the best years of my life wearing a uniform, sleeping in mud and having a great time doing it.

Good for you for serving!

Do I think America can improve, sure I do, but I fully expect that the USA will rise back up economically, internationally and (ahem… for lack of a better word) spiritually, eventually crushing China just like it did the USSR for many of the reasons Obama said, American Exceptionalism isn’t just saying we’re the best, it’s proving it by fixing what’s broken and making sure that every American has a chance to make a difference. Or are you saying that everything here is exactly the way you want it?

I agree I think we can always improve. But you don’t improve by hiking taxes on job creator’s, raising the number of people on food stamps to record levels, and taking over 1/7th of the economy with Obamacare. (Hopefully that mess will be struck down by the Supreme Court).

You improve by getting the government off the backs of the people and creating opportunity in the process. These are things that are very foreign to the left. The left thinks that we can spend our way out of this recession and in the process hand out free money to the poor. This only rewards them for not having a job and creates no opportunities.

But we saw in Wisconsin a huge voter turnout in favor of the republican Governor who has cut government programs, lowered taxes and in the process lowered unemployment. And, as I’ve said on prior occasions, every state that has had a liberal in charge for a long period of time is in trouble today!

Liberalism has failed and hopefully the people will speak out in November and send Obama (the great apologizer) packing![/quote]

I really do think that there should be welfare programs, but the ones we have are like you say unfortunately and Obama is pandering to the base so he thinks he has to give handouts to get re-elected. I don’t think we need to get rid of them, but they do need a serious, major, and significant overhaul.

I liked the welfare programs FDR started. Give people a safety net, but make sure that someone does something for government money. ANYTHING productive. Even if it’s picking up garbage off the side of the road or menial jobs that can improve basic infrastructure like digging drainage ditches. Beggars shouldn’t be choosers. Also, there are few feelings worse than feeling useless to me and that’s an attitude that needs to spread it seems like in America.

In your opinion, why don’t you think that Romney isn’t just going to pander to the far right and end up basically doing socialism for the already rich?

[pittbulll]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Hey Zeb , no hard feelings here , I did say with all due respect :)[/quote]

My Christian sense tells me to forgive you. My worldly sense tells me something else.

Hmmm…[/quote]

[pittbulll]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the real question here Zeb Do you understand Capital Gains taxes ? Have you ever paid them ? I have a couple years where my Capital Gains were %50 of my income .[/quote]
Dude, I’m in the top tax bracket, we pay 35% on our income. Then after tax, we invest some of that money. We then pay 15% capital gains tax.
What’s not to understand?
Sure there are deductions, but that’s the basics.
IF all of your income is from investments ie; capital gains, then sure, you only pay 15%.
But that’s only for the Warren Buffett types, not regular working people.[/quote]

The number of people who are actually wealthy enough to live off of capital gains income probably number less than 5,000 people.

That is just a guess but I’d be surprised if it were many more than that. And so what if there were? They earned the money paid the top tax percentage on it they then invested it and pay additional 15% on it and they are now wealthy.

When did that become wrong in America?

[/quote]
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. I hope for it to be me in the next 10 years. It’s a goal we have. Seriously.
The misinformation both sides put out is outrageous. Like when the Dems say “Republicans are gonna cut your SS” Well, they propose cutting the planned increases, that’s all. If you get $100 a month in SS, and it’s slated to go to $110, the proposal is cut 50%. Of the proposal. So you’d get $105, not $50.
People who take the news at face value are sheep.
Baahhh…(pointed at you Pitbull)
[/quote]

I do not understand your post , There is no disinformation that a dollar Mitt earns is worth 85 cents and mine is worth 67 cents what is disinformative about that . [/quote]
Right. His income now comes from investments. Your’s doesn’t. What’s the problem?
[/quote]

So Mitt makes more money than i with other money I make less money than Mitt with sweat . So My Dollar should be worth less . I got it (NOT)
[/quote]

If you can’t understand such a simple concept as investments are not the same as working at a job that says something about your mental capacity. What it shows is you have a very limited capacity to think on a conceptual level. You see the first most obvious fact and that is it.

Investment earnings are not the same as working at a job because of several reasons. I’ll start with the most obvious. Investment involves risk because there are no guarantees. Working at a job involves none to little risk because there are guarantees.

For example when you invest money you have no idea how much money you are going to get in return. You could do well or you could lose your entire investment. There is no guarantee and there is no recourse for getting your money back if you make a bad investment.

When you go to a job not only do you know how much you are going to get paid for every hour you are on the job, there is even a guaranteed return on your time that is mandated by law called the minimum wage. If your employer doesn’t pay you, you can take him to court.

There is no Federal minimum return on investments that must be paid out to an investor, you are on your own to win or lose and if you lose you can lose big. If you work for a company and it goes out of business, at most you are going to lose the money earned since your last paycheck and maybe a pension. With investing you could lose a lifetime of savings in a bad day and have to start all over again.

Since they are two very different ways of making money, where the risks are very different it makes perfect sense then, that the rewards should be taxed differently.

Next there is the benefit to the economy of investing. Investing results in economic activity that generates taxes. A good example of this concept was the story of Mitt Romney and his secretary. Maybe he does pay less taxes as a percentage of his income. But if it wasn’t for his business acumen, and prudent management of his finances creating a successful business, people like the secretary and the rest of the company would not have a job to go to and draw a paycheck that they pay taxes on.

So by creating a successful business and employing people he has added greatly to the tax base. In light of that fact, I see nothing wrong with allowing someone like him to enjoy a favorable tax structure, because he will use the money to employ more people and further increase the tax base. We might lose a little on his taxes initially but in the long run his reinvesting the money more than makes up for it. [/quote]

That was an exceptional explanation Sifu. I hope it goes a long way in allowing people to understand why class warfare is both dangerous and destructive![/quote]

Well Mr Sinfu, you need to consider all the self employed and small business owners that do not get the tax advantage of Mr Mitt, just risking a mere investment . Try Product liability . Risk of investment and all investments tied up in Corporation .

It amazes me how everyone on this thread can know everything

Corporations should be all tax exempt . and if a progressive tax is going to be It should not go from middle class down into wealth . It should go wealth down into poverty

[pittbulll]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the real question here Zeb Do you understand Capital Gains taxes ? Have you ever paid them ? I have a couple years where my Capital Gains were %50 of my income .[/quote]
Dude, I’m in the top tax bracket, we pay 35% on our income. Then after tax, we invest some of that money. We then pay 15% capital gains tax.
What’s not to understand?
Sure there are deductions, but that’s the basics.
IF all of your income is from investments ie; capital gains, then sure, you only pay 15%.
But that’s only for the Warren Buffett types, not regular working people.[/quote]

The number of people who are actually wealthy enough to live off of capital gains income probably number less than 5,000 people.

That is just a guess but I’d be surprised if it were many more than that. And so what if there were? They earned the money paid the top tax percentage on it they then invested it and pay additional 15% on it and they are now wealthy.

When did that become wrong in America?

[/quote]
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. I hope for it to be me in the next 10 years. It’s a goal we have. Seriously.
The misinformation both sides put out is outrageous. Like when the Dems say “Republicans are gonna cut your SS” Well, they propose cutting the planned increases, that’s all. If you get $100 a month in SS, and it’s slated to go to $110, the proposal is cut 50%. Of the proposal. So you’d get $105, not $50.
People who take the news at face value are sheep.
Baahhh…(pointed at you Pitbull)
[/quote]

I do not understand your post , There is no disinformation that a dollar Mitt earns is worth 85 cents and mine is worth 67 cents what is disinformative about that . [/quote]
Right. His income now comes from investments. Your’s doesn’t. What’s the problem?
[/quote]

So Mitt makes more money than i with other money I make less money than Mitt with sweat . So My Dollar should be worth less . I got it (NOT)
[/quote]

If you can’t understand such a simple concept as investments are not the same as working at a job that says something about your mental capacity. What it shows is you have a very limited capacity to think on a conceptual level. You see the first most obvious fact and that is it.

Investment earnings are not the same as working at a job because of several reasons. I’ll start with the most obvious. Investment involves risk because there are no guarantees. Working at a job involves none to little risk because there are guarantees.

For example when you invest money you have no idea how much money you are going to get in return. You could do well or you could lose your entire investment. There is no guarantee and there is no recourse for getting your money back if you make a bad investment.

When you go to a job not only do you know how much you are going to get paid for every hour you are on the job, there is even a guaranteed return on your time that is mandated by law called the minimum wage. If your employer doesn’t pay you, you can take him to court.

There is no Federal minimum return on investments that must be paid out to an investor, you are on your own to win or lose and if you lose you can lose big. If you work for a company and it goes out of business, at most you are going to lose the money earned since your last paycheck and maybe a pension. With investing you could lose a lifetime of savings in a bad day and have to start all over again.

Since they are two very different ways of making money, where the risks are very different it makes perfect sense then, that the rewards should be taxed differently.

Next there is the benefit to the economy of investing. Investing results in economic activity that generates taxes. A good example of this concept was the story of Mitt Romney and his secretary. Maybe he does pay less taxes as a percentage of his income. But if it wasn’t for his business acumen, and prudent management of his finances creating a successful business, people like the secretary and the rest of the company would not have a job to go to and draw a paycheck that they pay taxes on.

So by creating a successful business and employing people he has added greatly to the tax base. In light of that fact, I see nothing wrong with allowing someone like him to enjoy a favorable tax structure, because he will use the money to employ more people and further increase the tax base. We might lose a little on his taxes initially but in the long run his reinvesting the money more than makes up for it. [/quote]

That was an exceptional explanation Sifu. I hope it goes a long way in allowing people to understand why class warfare is both dangerous and destructive![/quote]

Thank you Zeb. With my family background I’ve had the opportunity to observe class warfare up close. A hundred years ago Britain was the dominant economy in the world. Now it’s only the third or fourth biggest economy in Europe and it’s position in the world is declining. Entire industries like the automobile industry have been completely wiped out.

So I have been keenly aware of how under Obama the Democrats have been using the language and rhetoric of class warfare. This is a man who really doesn’t get America. It’s because he wasn’t raised here. It’s also because his mother who raised him had resentments against this country that she passed on to him. For me this is a much more serious and indisputable issue than the birth certificate.

I believe the whole intent of the requirement be natural born, was to try to ensure that our president was someone who was raised in the American culture and had it deeply ingrained in their character.

Obama isn’t like that and people can tell. The publishers biography doesn’t prove that he was born in Kenya, but it does show that it is quite possible that back then he didn’t want to be seen as an American. That he saw something wrong with being an American. That he was ashamed of it even. That mindset would certainly explain the apology tour. [/quote]

Please you and Zeb get a room already

[ZEB]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

In your opinion, why don’t you think that Romney isn’t just going to pander to the far right and end up basically doing socialism for the already rich?[/quote]

Because while Romney at his core may not be as conservative as we might like he is as intelligent as we might like. And if he wins he will certainly understand that the forces that brought him that win are going to be there in 2016.

-He will get rid of Obamcare (if the Supreme Court doesn’t do it first)

-He will lower taxes

-He will reduce spending

He will do these things and much more not because he’s in love with them, but because he’s a smart guy and wants to win again in 2016!

And I’ll take the above over a leftist ideologue like Obama any day! Because given four more years as President unchecked by the electorate Obama will unleash a leftist agenda that would make Marx proud.

[UtahLama]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Speaking of China, one thing that I think will bankrupt them is that when their current generation gets older, the younger ones will not be able to support them because of their one child rule and the fact that they abort and throw out girls hence the crazy male:female ratio. Think Europe x20. [/quote]

Agree.

Another likely scenario is that they start a shooting war…lots of young men with a lot of time and nothing to do with it… equals trouble.

[pittbulll]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

In your opinion, why don’t you think that Romney isn’t just going to pander to the far right and end up basically doing socialism for the already rich?[/quote]

Because while Romney at his core may not be as conservative as we might like he is as intelligent as we might like. And if he wins he will certainly understand that the forces that brought him that win are going to be there in 2016.

-He will get rid of Obamcare (if the Supreme Court doesn’t do it first)

-He will lower taxes

-He will reduce spending

He will do these things and much more not because he’s in love with them, but because he’s a smart guy and wants to win again in 2016!

And I’ll take the above over a leftist ideologue like Obama any day! Because given four more years as President unchecked by the electorate Obama will unleash a leftist agenda that would make Marx proud.
[/quote]

That is the Mitt you want to elect , but after he is elected he will be the Mitt I like