Also, I have a real hard time imagining that you are actually an old man. How old are you really?
[quote]eraserhead wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]eraserhead wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]eraserhead wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]eraserhead wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]eraserhead wrote:
Naturally, the dilemma is resolved if man was created in the image of God, in which case our sense of logic is derived from a higher truth.
[/quote]
Ok first off that doesn’t sound natural at all.
And second of all, that is the god of the gaps argument: God of the gaps - Wikipedia
“We don’t know how something happened so NATURALLY(???) a magical being did it!”
Yeah you could resolve any dilemma if you input a magical being who can DO ANYTHING! Such a primitive way of thinking. And worst of all is that you try and pretend like you’re right by trying to sound smart about it. Congratulations you’re practically a walking disease.
[/quote]
I’m not going to bother with your insult at all. I do not at all believe in a God of gaps, so if it came off that way I’m sorry. You can replace naturally with “of course” if that makes you feel better.
[/quote]
You’re the one who said “The dilemma is resolved if man was created in the image of God”. That leaves a pretty big gap because that doesn’t really explain anything You’ve just inserted a magical being to solve your problem. And like the above poster said, that just leaves a greater question of how did god get created.
Fill in the gaps then. Explain to me the process of how you believe god created us or just explain your beliefs in detail. Be very detailed because this isn’t a live conversation. How did god create us and how was he created?
[/quote]
God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, not a magical being. This is a prime example of what I wrote about in the previous post. Why do you assume that the Creator must have a beginning? Let us assume that the big bang theory is correct. In that case, time and space exist as a result of an expansion of singularity, where everything that will ever come to be was once contained. “Outside” of this, there is no time or space, nor “was” there “before”. I put these terms in quotation marks since it is a fallacy to talk about what was before time, or outside of space, since there “was” no time or space at all. God is eternal, he is not here or there.
[/quote]
You didn’t fill in the gaps though. You said there was a god, and he created the humans and earth. But you didn’t explain the method in which he did this. Explain to me the process of how you believe god created us.
[/quote]
Well you obviously didn’t get any of the essence of what I wrote, I must suck at explaining my thoughts. Ask Tiribulus, he should give you a nice and straightforward answer. I have to work now.[/quote]
There is nothing straightforward about tribulus. And I acknowledge now that instead of admitting you don’t know, you have dodged the question like an immature little weakling. Wouldn’t want you workin’ for me kid.[/quote]
When did I claim to know the “process” by which God created us? Quite to the contrary actually, if by knowing you mean some kind of empirical knowledge. As someone who believes in evolution, you should realize that your question must be informed only by your animal brain and understanding. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that you should be capable of understanding metaphysics to any degree. Asking about the “process” by which God created us is just as ill formed as asking about what was before time. [/quote]
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
No you’re not you’re acting like a douche. You’re only serious in the convo until you have no answers then you just try and play it off. It just shows you’re not confident in the discussion.[/quote]
I offer a hand and this is the thanks I get?
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[/quote]
Why? Will some law of blind, deaf, and dumb, nature trigger at such an utterance?
No Joe. That is not right. If we we’re living under the theocratic old covenant law of Moses that would be the practice and still would be were it not for the person and work of Jesus Christ. Thank God. Everything that was written to and about ancient Israel was for the purpose of demonstrating what the Son of God has accomplished by flawlessly obeying the law yet paying it’s penalty in my place as if he hadn’t because I haven’t and can’t. He IS that stoned son. AND the recipient of every other penalty you find in the old testament law. The apostle Paul went to great lengths to spell out exactly how believers are justified by faith in Christ who obeyed the law in our place. We are living in the redemptive church age in which the old testament judicial and ceremonial is not binding upon the people of God. Please see this 350 year old confession for a statement I agree with in this regard. The Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646. http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/westminster_conf_of_faith.html Here is what is says about the law. [quote]
CHAPTER XIX.
Of the Law of God.
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
II. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament.
IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other, now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
V. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither doth Christ in the gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin, and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God’s approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof; although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man’s doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one, and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it: the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done. [/quote] [quote]eraserhead wrote:<<< Also, I have a real hard time imagining that you are actually an old man. How old are you really?[/quote]I have heroically resisted the urge to ask this for a couple days now.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[/quote]
Why? Will some law of blind, deaf, and dumb, nature trigger at such an utterance? [/quote]
I don’t know. Neither do you. Could be natural, could be something else. No point in pretending we know if we don’t know.
Christians do not practice stoning people because that was the Old Testament (Jewish) justice system. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, which superceded the Old Testament laws of repayment for sins. The Old testament still has some relevance in revealing God’s requirements for right living, but Christians are not called by God to mete out punishment for others’ sins under the new covenant.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[/quote]
Why? Will some law of blind, deaf, and dumb, nature trigger at such an utterance? [/quote]
I don’t know. Neither do you. Could be natural, could be something else. No point in pretending we know if we don’t know.[/quote]
No, I’m asking why he should stop ‘saying it was God.’ Nature doesn’t care if he does.
[quote]Train4sport wrote:
Christians do not practice stoning people because that was the Old Testament (Jewish) justice system. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, which superceded the Old Testament laws of repayment for sins. The Old testament still has some relevance in revealing God’s requirements for right living, but Christians are not called by God to mete out punishment for others’ sins under the new covenant. [/quote]
Stop. He caught us red-handed. Or, stone in hand, rather.
As my wife told me: God was about five when he created dinosaurs, now at the postmodern age, He has reached puberty.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[/quote]
Why? Will some law of blind, deaf, and dumb, nature trigger at such an utterance? [/quote]
I don’t know. Neither do you. Could be natural, could be something else. No point in pretending we know if we don’t know.[/quote]
No, I’m asking why he should stop ‘saying it was God.’ Nature doesn’t care if he does.
[/quote]
Because there’s no evidence of god’s ever existing? That’s a pretty good reason.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Exactly. You just explained how you don’t know how we were created. So you should stop saying it was God.
[/quote]
Why? Will some law of blind, deaf, and dumb, nature trigger at such an utterance? [/quote]
I don’t know. Neither do you. Could be natural, could be something else. No point in pretending we know if we don’t know.[/quote]
No, I’m asking why he should stop ‘saying it was God.’ Nature doesn’t care if he does.
[/quote]
Because there’s no evidence of god’s ever existing? That’s a pretty good reason.[/quote]
No it isn’t. There’s no rules of the universe that dictate as much.
[quote]Train4sport wrote:
Christians do not practice stoning people because that was the Old Testament (Jewish) justice system. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, which superceded the Old Testament laws of repayment for sins. The Old testament still has some relevance in revealing God’s requirements for right living, but Christians are not called by God to mete out punishment for others’ sins under the new covenant. [/quote]
Ok but how do we know which one is the right book/god/religion to follow? How do we decide which one is right, if any?
See, a man could be a monk or a physicist. You can value the physicist more all you want, but that’s just you.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
No Joe. That is not right. If we we’re living under the theocratic old covenant law of Moses that would be the practice and still would be were it not for the person and work of Jesus Christ. Thank God. Everything that was written to and about ancient Israel was for the purpose of demonstrating what the Son of God has accomplished by flawlessly obeying the law yet paying it’s penalty in my place as if he hadn’t because I haven’t and can’t. He IS that stoned son. AND the recipient of every other penalty you find in the old testament law. The apostle Paul went to great lengths to spell out exactly how believers are justified by faith in Christ who obeyed the law in our place. We are living in the redemptive church age in which the old testament judicial and ceremonial is not binding upon the people of God. Please see this 350 year old confession for a statement I agree with in this regard. The Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646. http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/westminster_conf_of_faith.html Here is what is says about the law. [quote]
CHAPTER XIX.
Of the Law of God.
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
II. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament.
IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other, now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
V. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither doth Christ in the gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin, and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God’s approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof; although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man’s doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one, and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it: the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done. [/quote] [quote]eraserhead wrote:<<< Also, I have a real hard time imagining that you are actually an old man. How old are you really?[/quote]I have heroically resisted the urge to ask this for a couple days now.
[/quote]
Yes and how do we know those are really the laws from God and not just made up by men?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]eraserhead wrote:<<< Also, I have a real hard time imagining that you are actually an old man. How old are you really?[/quote]I have heroically resisted the urge to ask this for a couple days now.
[/quote]
I for my part definitely hear a pissed off middle aged man speaking his mind.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:Actually Tribulus, he never came here, >>>[/quote]He didn’t?[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< he doesn’t sustain anything, and he doesn’t exist. >>>[/quote]He doesn’t?[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< The bible is the word of some very primitive men, >>>[/quote]It is?[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< not of any God. >>>[/quote]It’s not?[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< Your beliefs are wrong. >>>[/quote]They are?[quote]OldManJoe wrote: God and Jesus don’t exist. >>>[/quote]They don’t?[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< There is no God, and no heaven. >>>[/quote]There’s not? [quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< Christianity, and all religion, can suck my old wrinkly balls 
[/quote]Well thank you so very much for clearing all this up for me. You have brought me to my senses with your keen insight, penetrating analysis, profound erudition and compassionate manner. I am forever in your debt sir. I will buy you a fully posable Ken Miller action figure to show my deep appreciation and gratitude.
I’m just doing what you do Tribulus. Making statement without backing them up. I already asked why you think those scripts are reliable why not answer that?
Why should anyone believe the laws you posted are truly from God?
Oh let me guess…we know the laws are from god because they say they are from god! That’s why I posted the napkin religion, because it’s the same idea.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:<<< Yes and how do we know those are really the laws from God and not just made up by men?[/quote]The same way you know that a “scientist” with a 3 pound brain can tell you what happened billions of years ago in spite of the fact that he can’t even tell you how and why he knows that 2+2=4.
Tribulus, begin your answer like this please so I can understand:
“We know those laws are from God because…”