Big D*ck Inferiority Complex

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Let me make sure I understand what you’re saying… you’re using the argument that hot chicks don’t want to assume an opportunity cost so decide to “invest” in marriage early? That would assume:

A) hot chicks become unattractive quite quickly (for the practical time frame we’re using)
B) the rate in A) is marginally faster for hot chicks than the average woman, who is her competition
and C) marriage is an investment generating returns.

We’re arguing from the stand-point of choosing a mate so C) probably isn’t relevant but a hot chick definitely has a greater “production possibility frontier” between the enjoyment of single life and quality of partner. This is more true if we stipulate that marriage has a cost (loss of sexual freedom, etc) and benefit in the form of offspring. Assuming there is no internal battle for mates between hot chicks (there are numerous quality mates) then my argument makes more “sense” than yours. [/quote]

First, let me clarify that my comment about having a semi-functioning brain was not a shot at you. I realized it could be interpreted that way after I posted it.

So your argument is that her rational strategy is to enjoy sexual freedom until her age makes her about equivalently attractive to her more average competitors, at which point she enters the market?

The rate of declining “value” in looks does not have to be faster for hot chicks than the average woman, because her competition isn’t just other women within her cohort, her competition for the best men will be women that are younger than she is. A 35 year old woman is competing with 22-25 year old women for a desirable 35 year old man. If all the man selects for is attractiveness and potential for offspring, he’s much better off taking the younger woman, who is more likely to remain attractive for longer than the older woman.

Economic actors compromise, of course, but isn’t it a better long-term strategy to maximize your partner selection? But of course, if you’re assuming that there’s no internal battle, i.e., no competition, then there is no market because there is no scarcity. If we have a surplus of quality men, in this hetero-normative hypothetical of ours, then you’re right, a woman is better off waiting until she has just enough child bearing years left to have the number of children she wants, at which point she can wander out into the street, grab a random man by the collar, and head to the justice of the peace. The difference is that I don’t stipulate the surplus. [/quote]

I fear we’re detracting from the original statement, namely, the theory attractive women should wait longer to marry/have offspring (let’s say the two are mutually inclusive and occur simultaneously) because their attractiveness enables them to scout a greater sample of the male gene pool.

You made a very good point about competition between older and younger attractive females. I will admit I failed to consider it. That theory could very well help explain why some young attractive females marry early in their adult lives, an observation I initially made that led me to make the comment about the hot chick’s `theoretical’ reality, which you quoted.

Maybe I complicated the argument by introducing the opportunity cost of sexual freedom (probably not accounted for in old-school anthropology). The more I think about it the more inclined I am to eliminate any attractiveness distinction between females talking about marriage and mating besides the primary hard-to-dispute comment that attractive females have better quality mating choices than the average woman. I’d have to approach any pattern discussions from a deduction stand-point and look at scientific facts (statistic) first before attempting to draw up any theories. Obviously, none of these studies exist. How do we distinguish between attractive, average and unattractive scientifically?

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
According to the CDC, only %10 of women between the ages of 25 and 44 have had sex with more than 15 men.

Unfortunately, I went to school with none of them.[/quote]

Keep in mind those numbers a heavily skewed by inner city populations. I think what Emily said above is spot on for the typical middle class american female.[/quote]

For those of us living in inner city, those numbers are heavily skewed downward by those living in more rural areas. :)[/quote]

People tend to forget a lot of women get into serious relationships quite early in their adult lives. They may play around a bit in college but many of them will find “the one” (for atleast 10 years --50% of marriages in the US end up in divorce) in their mid to late 20s. It’s always surprising when really attractive women get married so early, anthropology 101 logic would dictate these women have greater access to the gene pool and would on average wait longer before finding the best mate. I think some of these women are tired on men chasing them and just settle so they don’t have to play the game anymore because let’s be honest, the game can get tiring. [/quote]

Coming back to this, from earlier. YES. I’m not in “the most attractive” category of women but I hate casual dating and always have. It feels like being hunted to me, with distressing undercurrents of anger should you fail to meet expectations, whether of reciprocated attraction or sex. I don’t get the appeal of some guy I hardly know trying to back me into a corner while he makes what he thinks are sexy faces, or of men with bad breath and boring stories trying to pin me down for a kiss or another date or to come over or to meet his dog/mother/sailboat/whatever.

No. Give me someone who smells just right and who isn’t a bore and I will happily kiss and other things without any thought as to who else might be out there with a bigger penis or wallet or what have you.

[/quote]

Easy prey-

So I dont have to suck utterly?

Is that supposed to be a challenge?[/quote]

No. You (the general you, of course) have to be someone I like and respect. If I wouldn’t have you for a good friend, I’m not going to kiss you. I’m not going to accept drinks or dinner from you and if you insist it will seem like an aggreessve-in-the-bad way move and I will withdraw as quickly as possible. If you don’t have interesting things to talk about I will exit. If your interesting things give me the slightest whiff of anger at women, I will politely exit. If you can’t talk about your last relationship with reasonable generosity, I’m not interested. If there are any children in your world, you’d better glow when you talk about them and have seen them very recently. Etc.

I don’t pick up men in bars. I don’t move quickly, unless there’s enough history that I’ve established strong liking and then chemistry is there as well.

You and I would eliminate one another within moments.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
How do we distinguish between attractive, average and unattractive scientifically?
[/quote]

You get a representative sample of men to rate pictures of the women - this happens all the time in research. You just can’t assume that those ratings answer whether the women are objectively physically attractive. Realistically, for these kinds of questions, objective beauty is irrelevant anyway, because the market is fairly constrained to the particular society in question.

Here’s another option for you: attractive women are more likely to have opportunities with many men earlier in life, and therefore have a higher probability of being exposed to and being able to select from higher-quality mates. Assume that the supply of these higher-quality mates is still not infinite, so she realizes consciously or unconsciously that the high-quality mate is rare/valuable. The more average woman is going to meet and be approached by a much higher proportion of average men, which means she has less incentive to choose from a bunch of equally average options.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
How do we distinguish between attractive, average and unattractive scientifically?
[/quote]

You get a representative sample of men to rate pictures of the women - this happens all the time in research. You just can’t assume that those ratings answer whether the women are objectively physically attractive. Realistically, for these kinds of questions, objective beauty is irrelevant anyway, because the market is fairly constrained to the particular society in question.

Here’s another option for you: attractive women are more likely to have opportunities with many men earlier in life, and therefore have a higher probability of being exposed to and being able to select from higher-quality mates. Assume that the supply of these higher-quality mates is still not infinite, so she realizes consciously or unconsciously that the high-quality mate is rare/valuable. The more average woman is going to meet and be approached by a much higher proportion of average men, which means she has less incentive to choose from a bunch of equally average options.[/quote]

You’re not accounting for personality’s impact on perceived attractiveness. I think for most people, energy levels (charisma or lack thereof) help to determine attractiveness. Appeal plummets when the mouth opens and a noxious accent emerges. And so on.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
I think my problem is, i will never get that wow factor from her. I think thats what im jealous of. [/quote]

Dudes with small dicks have been keeping women happy for the whole of human history. You can do it too. [/quote]

What’d you have to bring me into this for? Well beans, no big thing.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
According to the CDC, only %10 of women between the ages of 25 and 44 have had sex with more than 15 men.

Unfortunately, I went to school with none of them.[/quote]

Keep in mind those numbers a heavily skewed by inner city populations. I think what Emily said above is spot on for the typical middle class american female.[/quote]

For those of us living in inner city, those numbers are heavily skewed downward by those living in more rural areas. :)[/quote]

People tend to forget a lot of women get into serious relationships quite early in their adult lives. They may play around a bit in college but many of them will find “the one” (for atleast 10 years --50% of marriages in the US end up in divorce) in their mid to late 20s. It’s always surprising when really attractive women get married so early, anthropology 101 logic would dictate these women have greater access to the gene pool and would on average wait longer before finding the best mate. I think some of these women are tired on men chasing them and just settle so they don’t have to play the game anymore because let’s be honest, the game can get tiring. [/quote]

Coming back to this, from earlier. YES. I’m not in “the most attractive” category of women but I hate casual dating and always have. It feels like being hunted to me, with distressing undercurrents of anger should you fail to meet expectations, whether of reciprocated attraction or sex. I don’t get the appeal of some guy I hardly know trying to back me into a corner while he makes what he thinks are sexy faces, or of men with bad breath and boring stories trying to pin me down for a kiss or another date or to come over or to meet his dog/mother/sailboat/whatever.

No. Give me someone who smells just right and who isn’t a bore and I will happily kiss and other things without any thought as to who else might be out there with a bigger penis or wallet or what have you.

[/quote]

Easy prey-

So I dont have to suck utterly?

Is that supposed to be a challenge?[/quote]

No. You (the general you, of course) have to be someone I like and respect. If I wouldn’t have you for a good friend, I’m not going to kiss you. I’m not going to accept drinks or dinner from you and if you insist it will seem like an aggreessve-in-the-bad way move and I will withdraw as quickly as possible. If you don’t have interesting things to talk about I will exit. If your interesting things give me the slightest whiff of anger at women, I will politely exit. If you can’t talk about your last relationship with reasonable generosity, I’m not interested. If there are any children in your world, you’d better glow when you talk about them and have seen them very recently. Etc.

I don’t pick up men in bars. I don’t move quickly, unless there’s enough history that I’ve established strong liking and then chemistry is there as well.

You and I would eliminate one another within moments.[/quote]

You are wrong.

Seriously.

You would start to qualify within minutes that you are not LIKE THAT and whatnot.

This is not even up for debate, I know what you would like to believe in, it just would not happen.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
According to the CDC, only %10 of women between the ages of 25 and 44 have had sex with more than 15 men.

Unfortunately, I went to school with none of them.[/quote]

Keep in mind those numbers a heavily skewed by inner city populations. I think what Emily said above is spot on for the typical middle class american female.[/quote]

For those of us living in inner city, those numbers are heavily skewed downward by those living in more rural areas. :)[/quote]

People tend to forget a lot of women get into serious relationships quite early in their adult lives. They may play around a bit in college but many of them will find “the one” (for atleast 10 years --50% of marriages in the US end up in divorce) in their mid to late 20s. It’s always surprising when really attractive women get married so early, anthropology 101 logic would dictate these women have greater access to the gene pool and would on average wait longer before finding the best mate. I think some of these women are tired on men chasing them and just settle so they don’t have to play the game anymore because let’s be honest, the game can get tiring. [/quote]

Coming back to this, from earlier. YES. I’m not in “the most attractive” category of women but I hate casual dating and always have. It feels like being hunted to me, with distressing undercurrents of anger should you fail to meet expectations, whether of reciprocated attraction or sex. I don’t get the appeal of some guy I hardly know trying to back me into a corner while he makes what he thinks are sexy faces, or of men with bad breath and boring stories trying to pin me down for a kiss or another date or to come over or to meet his dog/mother/sailboat/whatever.

No. Give me someone who smells just right and who isn’t a bore and I will happily kiss and other things without any thought as to who else might be out there with a bigger penis or wallet or what have you.

[/quote]

Easy prey-

So I dont have to suck utterly?

Is that supposed to be a challenge?[/quote]

No. You (the general you, of course) have to be someone I like and respect. If I wouldn’t have you for a good friend, I’m not going to kiss you. I’m not going to accept drinks or dinner from you and if you insist it will seem like an aggreessve-in-the-bad way move and I will withdraw as quickly as possible. If you don’t have interesting things to talk about I will exit. If your interesting things give me the slightest whiff of anger at women, I will politely exit. If you can’t talk about your last relationship with reasonable generosity, I’m not interested. If there are any children in your world, you’d better glow when you talk about them and have seen them very recently. Etc.

I don’t pick up men in bars. I don’t move quickly, unless there’s enough history that I’ve established strong liking and then chemistry is there as well.

You and I would eliminate one another within moments.[/quote]

You are wrong.

Seriously.

You would start to qualify within minutes that you are not LIKE THAT and whatnot.

This is not even up for debate, I know what you would like to believe in, it just would not happen. [/quote]

No, I wouldn’t be interested in you. There is no way I wouldn’t find you narrow-minded and negative in outlook. These criteria of mine are not about will I fuck or will I not, they’re about do I admire you or do I not. I wouldn’t have any interest in it/you because I’m not looking for what you assume I am. And you’re not looking for me, unless to what, score? To take something through manipulation that you know I wouldn’t give under more honest conditions?

Maybe I’m crazy, but I think your efforts would simply strike me as oily. You’re a player; a slut. I think those qualities are apparent to people looking closely and I am extremely observant in person.

Besides, you wouldn’t have the patience for me. And that, too, would be apparent to me.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
You’re not accounting for personality’s impact on perceived attractiveness. I think for most people, energy levels (charisma or lack thereof) help to determine attractiveness. Appeal plummets when the mouth opens and a noxious accent emerges. And so on.[/quote]

That’s because we’ve been discussing this as though women have a single valuation - physical attractiveness. But fine, how about we film them in a short interview. The men can rate that.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
According to the CDC, only %10 of women between the ages of 25 and 44 have had sex with more than 15 men.

Unfortunately, I went to school with none of them.[/quote]

Keep in mind those numbers a heavily skewed by inner city populations. I think what Emily said above is spot on for the typical middle class american female.[/quote]

For those of us living in inner city, those numbers are heavily skewed downward by those living in more rural areas. :)[/quote]

People tend to forget a lot of women get into serious relationships quite early in their adult lives. They may play around a bit in college but many of them will find “the one” (for atleast 10 years --50% of marriages in the US end up in divorce) in their mid to late 20s. It’s always surprising when really attractive women get married so early, anthropology 101 logic would dictate these women have greater access to the gene pool and would on average wait longer before finding the best mate. I think some of these women are tired on men chasing them and just settle so they don’t have to play the game anymore because let’s be honest, the game can get tiring. [/quote]

Coming back to this, from earlier. YES. I’m not in “the most attractive” category of women but I hate casual dating and always have. It feels like being hunted to me, with distressing undercurrents of anger should you fail to meet expectations, whether of reciprocated attraction or sex. I don’t get the appeal of some guy I hardly know trying to back me into a corner while he makes what he thinks are sexy faces, or of men with bad breath and boring stories trying to pin me down for a kiss or another date or to come over or to meet his dog/mother/sailboat/whatever.

No. Give me someone who smells just right and who isn’t a bore and I will happily kiss and other things without any thought as to who else might be out there with a bigger penis or wallet or what have you.

[/quote]

Easy prey-

So I dont have to suck utterly?

Is that supposed to be a challenge?[/quote]

No. You (the general you, of course) have to be someone I like and respect. If I wouldn’t have you for a good friend, I’m not going to kiss you. I’m not going to accept drinks or dinner from you and if you insist it will seem like an aggreessve-in-the-bad way move and I will withdraw as quickly as possible. If you don’t have interesting things to talk about I will exit. If your interesting things give me the slightest whiff of anger at women, I will politely exit. If you can’t talk about your last relationship with reasonable generosity, I’m not interested. If there are any children in your world, you’d better glow when you talk about them and have seen them very recently. Etc.

I don’t pick up men in bars. I don’t move quickly, unless there’s enough history that I’ve established strong liking and then chemistry is there as well.

You and I would eliminate one another within moments.[/quote]

You are wrong.

Seriously.

You would start to qualify within minutes that you are not LIKE THAT and whatnot.

This is not even up for debate, I know what you would like to believe in, it just would not happen. [/quote]

No, I wouldn’t be interested in you. There is no way I wouldn’t find you narrow-minded and negative in outlook. These criteria of mine are not about will I fuck or will I not, they’re about do I admire you or do I not. I wouldn’t have any interest in it/you because I’m not looking for what you assume I am. And you’re not looking for me, unless to what, score? To take something through manipulation that you know I wouldn’t give under more honest conditions?

Maybe I’m crazy, but I think your efforts would simply strike me as oily. You’re a player; a slut. I think those qualities are apparent to people looking closely and I am extremely observant in person.

Besides, you wouldn’t have the patience for me. And that, too, would be apparent to me.

[/quote]

OK

Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

You are so completely lost when it comes to sizing me up you should be embarrassed, but you wont be, for obvious reasons.

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

You are so completely lost when it comes to sizing me up you should be embarrassed, but you wont be, for obvious reasons. [/quote]

My solipsism?

Uh huh.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

You are so completely lost when it comes to sizing me up you should be embarrassed, but you wont be, for obvious reasons. [/quote]

My solipsism?

Uh huh.[/quote]

In that case not so much, it would be the instinct to be part of the herd.

If I could break you out, which I could, using your sollipsism, oh yes, things would just feel … right.

Cause thats what your emotions are for.

To make you feel right if all the buttons are pushed.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

You are so completely lost when it comes to sizing me up you should be embarrassed, but you wont be, for obvious reasons. [/quote]

My solipsism?

Uh huh.[/quote]

In that case not so much, it would be the instinct to be part of the herd.

If I could break you out, which I could, using your sollipsism, oh yes, things would just feel … right.

Cause thats what your emotions are for.

To make you feel right if all the buttons are pushed. [/quote]

Der Humpink!

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

You are so completely lost when it comes to sizing me up you should be embarrassed, but you wont be, for obvious reasons. [/quote]

My solipsism?

Uh huh.[/quote]

In that case not so much, it would be the instinct to be part of the herd.

If I could break you out, which I could, using your sollipsism, oh yes, things would just feel … right.

Cause thats what your emotions are for.

To make you feel right if all the buttons are pushed. [/quote]

Orion. How to put this tactfully? I don’t think you would suit. I don’t think, after probing at it, that I would find your frame sturdy enough. You wouldn’t strike me as bright and curious, but rather as rigid in your thinking. And again, your bitterness would be a huge issue. Your physical approaches would be unwelcome.

For me, there is no fear of herd judgment, though I’m circumspect in my public behavior because my job requires that. I care about what individuals think. If I don’t like and respect you, your judgment is meaningless to me unless it can cost me my job. The people I like and respect want for me what I want for myself, so there IS no separating or breaking me out.

Your assumptions are based on the thoughts and behavior of high school girls. I’m a grownup. What’s disheartening is that you are, too. It makes it sound as if you’re targeting women with developmental delays.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

What I am most impressed with about you at this point is your arrogance.

I find it pretty distasteful, but it IS impressive.

[/quote]

Could not agree more. This gem is my favorite so far:

[quote]orion wrote:
Plus, and this is me slippin out of my loafers for a while, what would draw you in is the contrast
between the honest, true and sincere and the cold, bold and calculating.

There is nothing “oily” about me, what there is, is intensity.

[/quote]

Classic.