Biden 2021 - A Mediocre Middle Ground

I’m passionate about both issues.

My case about the Georgia law in question is that it seems highly doubtful that any individual voter will be disenfranchised, especially without hearing the reasoning behind why those voting opportunities were limited or knowing any additional information about it. Again, there are lots of time’s I’d prefer to vote, but because I make voting a priority I find the time that fits me best and go to it.

If there’s a case that anyone, anywhere in the USA has inadequate access to a ballot or public polling place, I’m all ears about it and in agreement that it needs fixing. Let’s hear the case if there is one. Maybe this GA law is stopping dozens or even hundreds from voting who otherwise would have. Do we have any data or even an anecdotal story for how that law stops someone from voting?

Old-fashioned absentee ballots can easily fill in a lot of those gaps, and no I’m not against a sensible absentee voting process where you have to request a ballot and then one gets sent to you by local authorities.

There is simply no strong argument that page 14 of that Georgia bill will limit any individual’s right to vote anywhere in GA. It seems like there are ample opportunities that still exist. This sort of voting law modification generally falls within my realm of “reasonable”, unless there’s notable evidence to suggest that black people, or any people for that matter, will somehow be disenfranchised if not able to vote on certain Sunday hours during early and absentee voting periods. Has anyone actually raised this as a concern for themselves, or is it pundits and activist/journalists raising it on behalf of the people they think will be unable to vote under those conditions?

Regarding the 2nd, my case is that the right to own a gun is presently much, much, much more curtailed than the right to vote, so the comparison is deeply flawed to begin with. What is at worst a minor restriction not on general voting, but early and absentee voting can’t be compared to the introduction of a hurdle that requires both time, travel and money spent to clear in order to exercise one’s rights.

If the case is that voter ID discriminates because poor minority people have more trouble getting to the DMV and paying for ID, well, what will the 2nd Amendment travel requirement and $25 FFL fee do to that same population we’re told exists? Keep in mind that this is often on top of paid classroom requirements, paid permit requirements and a plethora of other laws that vary across jurisdictions.

We do. And we do.

No they don’t. I started a whole thread on this and it never went anywhere near that. Very few gun owners want no restrictions, no background checks and free-access to firearms for anyone with the right amount of cash flowing to whoever has availability. I challenge you to name anyone of note who has made such a case.

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You can’t loan a gun to your brother if he’s a felon-doesn’t matter whether he shoots it or not. Already more restrictive than cars.

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A difference exists between stopping someone from voting and creating conditions in which they are less likely to vote. I mean we can make the only place for me 100 miles away and people can accurately say this doesn’t stop me from voting. But it has created conditions in which I’m less likely to vote. Or more likely to have something that prevents it (late work, flat tire, etc.).

You don’t have to make it impossible to vote to setup conditions in which people are less likely to vote. In battleground states with thin margins why wouldn’t this be a logical place to start?

I’m sure you do and continue to do so. But again perhaps put yourself in the shoes of a traditionally disenfranchised group which has organized historically to vote on this date. Maybe you wonder why this “reasonable modification” seems to fit so neat against that. And as I said clearly these types of things have been thrown out before with regards to voting.

It seems crazy to think that all of the sudden Republicans in state houses coming off an electoral loss are going to tell everyone they are going to overhaul voting laws…and you seem to come to the conclusion that it’s preposterous that they would look to create laws that may work in their favor by lowering their opponents likelihood to vote. I’ll be the first to say Democrats look for the same edges and will continue to do so.

But we have beat that one up I believe so have a good one my man!

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I get that. Do you have any data or even an anecdotal story (from a real person, not an imagined scenario) for how that law makes someone less likely to vote?

We have and you have a good one too. Here’s a parting thought…

I know a lot of poor people in shitty situations, which is a natural byproduct of dive bar doorman work. I count many among my friends. I am absolutely in favor of making firearms readily-accessible to law-abiding poor people no matter their race, creed, color, or sexual preference.

Are you?

If so, how can you square that position with anything Biden is proposing?

I don’t have a problem with this. What’s keeping them from doing this already? Is it cost? I’m really not sure what you mean by poor people in this regard? I also don’t know what is meant by readily accessible? I don’t think poor people need massive amounts of guns but I don’t really think rich people do either.

I’m not seeing anything specific from google but I haven’t looked too much. All I saw was assault style weapons bans and background checks. I don’t see the exact specifics somewhere and as you said (and I agree the devil is in the details).

I don’t have a problem with poor, gay, black, white, people owning guns. At the same time I think it makes sense to look at our problem of mass shootings and look for solutions. Didn’t Trump ban bump stocks? I don’t see that as much different than trying to make certain weapons either harder to get or unable to purchase.

Seemed like that was legislation that attempted to make items that would make mass shootings easier less available. I don’t think that’s a bad goal. But I don’t think anything comes of it. It hasn’t all the other times.

But I’m for something even crazier than accessible weapons for poor people regardless of race or sexual orientation. High quality healthcare. So they can stop skipping preventative measures and not wait to seek treatment except in cases of emergency.

The only weapons similar to the purpose of a bump stock have been heavily regulated for years and years.

Like not smoking? Smoking is actually more expensive than not smoking.

A few findings from the paper

  • Wait times are on avg 5 minutes longer in districts composed entirely of black residents

  • Wait times are longer in majority Democrat districts

  • Voter ID laws seem to have no impact on wait times

  • Racial disparity at high volume locations is twice as large as at low-volume locations

  • "Effects could be driven by fewer resources that leads to congestion especially in high-volume polling places. "

Could it be simply that urban areas have higher population density and are also more likely to vote Democrat and have more black residents? Is this a race issue, Democrat issue, or just an urban issue?

Are the voting locations not run by volunteers of the party? Perhaps Dems do not care for the poor/Black/disenfranchised as much as they claim they do.

Did you even read the details? Look at participation rate. Example: MO has a participation rate of 3%. Michigan, 100%. 97% of the students in MO don’t even bother taking the SATs which could be interpreted as 97% of the students are not planning on going to college. But they’ll be ready for the economy and work environment of the future and won’t need any government handouts.

Everything is slower in the ghetto. From the post office to the supermarket.

It’s a ghetto issue.

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My state has the #1 spot for SAT performance. I didn’t even know the SAT was still a college admission test. I thought it had been replaced by the ACT. Only 4% of my state’s students had taken the SAT (for that article’s data). IMO, at those rates it is likely only (or mostly only) those who know they will do well on it that take it to boost their college applications (look I got a 33 on the ACT, and a 1450 on the SAT).

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Apparently the SAT has fallen out of favor with colleges. I think the ACT is weighted more heavily? Also, my cousins were telling me that its not that out of the ordinary to get a 1600 on it anymore (thats perfect)… and anything below 1500 wont get you into a top 15 public school. Fuh king hell.

Also, apparently Colleges are not looking at SAT scores from the incoming freshman '21 class for admissions because of covid issues, which means that the makeup of the top schools could be very different this year as folks who test poorly will have a much better shot of getting in, and those that test great but lack elsewhere will be going to lower tier colleges.

Next thing you know youre gonna tell us youre an engineer. Fucking smartypants.

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I just made that number up. I haven’t taken the SAT. I thought it was out of 1500, not 1600, so 1450 sounded like a great score (pretty sure it is). Very few people in my state were taking the SAT back when I did the ACT and that was about 15 years ago.

Similar to island time. Or an italian train schedule.

Meanwhile in suburbia you have Karen time, and she waits for no one. except the manager.

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I was one of the years when it was out of 2400 (they added an essay portion which i did terribly on), so when i compare scores no one knows WTF i am talking about with my score haha. Luckily, my wife is the same age so I bring it up all the time :slight_smile:

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They didn’t have an essay portion when I took it. Then there was this program at college I wanted to get into and if you had SAT scores above a certain number, you were exempt from having to take a test to get in. Well, I was exempt until they changed the format of the SAT and added an essay so I had to take one test that made up for the essay portion l was lacking. The thing about it was that I am not a HS junior or senior. I’m not an undergrad. So I’m thinking, “should I answer this like an 18 year old or like someone older with an MA?”

Smoking is bad for you yes whether rich or poor.

Poor people should still have high quality healthcare. Smoking doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Not a good defense if they get their way. Registration, you “lose” them and don’t report it, felony.

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Largely a regional thing. In Kansas pretty much no one takes the SAT and the ACT is used for most colleges in this area. East coast is a different story.

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Well individual rights aren’t for others to decide.

He was dead wrong on this. ATF reclassifying a part and directing private citizens to destroy their property without due process or be fined/arrested. Bump stocks are idiotic and serve no purpose tactically, but I still disagree with this extraconstitutional bureaucratic “ruling.”

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