[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
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Filthy mouth? Bullshit.
Well, I tried to be nice. I asked for proof. I have asked many things. But all you can do is name call. Do not ask BC to join the fallacious, anti biblical false doctrines of Calvinism. Let’s get into the nitty gritty. First, who was John Calvin? He was a man, with no divine inspiration nor any claim to be. Jesus, created the church which is now known as the Roman Catholic Church, there was no other in apostolic times. Mt 16:18 clearly spells this out unequivocally. You say the ‘gates of hell have prevailed against it’, completely contrary to what Jesus himself said. So, by what you said you have just called Jesus himself, God incarnate, a liar. There is no way around this one. It’s clear, it’s written in black and white. Do you really think Jesus was speaking about an undivinly inspired John Calvin 1500 years later when he was addressing St. Peter? Uh, no.[/quote]
Let’s be clear here, the church at the time was in no way or form called the Roman Catholic Church. Without digressing into the name-calling and finger pointing that seems to pervade this thread, the Catholic church of today is not what was begun in Matthew 16:18. Peter and the other disciples were foundational members of the church and they were the base that would spread the gospel to others. Somewhere along the way Rome got lost to the point of even selling free passes to sin. Was Jesus speaking to John Calvin? Yes, in the same way he speaks so us all through the Bible.
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So now let us dismantle the tenets of Calvin.
Total depravity- “Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation - it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.”
First this is extra-biblical. It’s even difficult to make the inference of it’s truth through scripture. It also makes the claim that God makes man inherently evil, which would be contrary to God making man in ‘his image’. You have to claim that his image is inherently ‘dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God’ which would also debunk his inherent goodness.[/quote]
Yes, the quote is extra-biblical. It is not inherently wrong because it is not word for word in the Bible. You’re ignoring the “Because of the fall” which makes all the difference in the world. Because of sin, we are evil in nature. Does God make us in his image? Yes. Is that image tarnished through our choices? If you don’t believe that, you must not have kids. Anyone with kids can answer these questions: Who taught your children to lie to you when they think they’re in trouble? Who taught your kids to hit someone out of anger? The answers are the same, they do it on their own. You tell them don’t touch, and the first instinct is to reach for that very thing. This is the sinful nature passed down to us all through the decisions of Adam and Eve, on display in it’s simplest form. The above quote does not imply humans are “sin incarnate” as you say, but rather carriers of a disease that we can seek help for or die of.
If we are inheriently evil, we are not stained by sin, we are sin incarnate. These are extra biblical tenet’s for they are clearly and unequivocally dispelled myths by the scriptures. Scriptural proof that this man made tenet is patently and unequivocally false is as follows:
- Romans 3:23
- Psalms 37:17
- John 1:9
- Romans 12:3
- Acts 10:1
- Acts 11:1
- Mark 16:16
- Isaiah 45:22
- Matthew 11:28
- John 7:37
Those are just to name a few.
I asked you to stop being a jerk. But you couldn’t help yourself. I asked you to prove your points, you cannot you can only scream insults. Well, now I must not only say your wrong, but prove it with the Bible only.
The difference between us, is that I don’t believe your willful ignorance will condemn you, because ultimately you love God. I just think your wrong and are full unfettered hate and anger directed at that which you do not know.
You’ll forgive me if I take the word of God over your’s or John Calvin’s?
Next up, dismantling the man made, extra-biblical, notion of ‘divine election’.
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