Best Type of Gun To Buy?

Off Topic
61

Something I can actually comment on at the great T-Nation. :slight_smile:

Just to be repetetive, take the chance to try a lot of different kinds of weapons out. Shotguns have a smaller learning curve, can be harder to handle in confined spaces. Pistols are easier to move with. All require practice, practice, practice.

A fun site I found that addresses the issues of overpenetration with shotguns, pistols, etc.

Click the ā€œbegin hereā€ link on the left. As a disclaimer, not a ā€œscientific approachā€ in the strict sense, but still pretty fun and enlightenin.

62

I would say shot gun like all previous posts. Now I will say this most thiefs break in while you are sleeping. What are the chances that you wake up, get your gun loaded and then shot before the thief can get to you.

I am a former Marine and having been trained in hand to hand combat, I would suggest getting some training in that sence. I feel baseball bat would be enough to knock off a head and you could leave that out with out any worries and less chance of that being used against you.
Just my 2 cents.

63

MACHETE!
make the dirtbags hurt!
make em begā€¦

64

Summary of request: you have had no experience/instruction in basic marksmanship much less defensive shooting/tactics and you would like advice on a weapon to purchase.

FIRST: get basic training and instruction before buying a gun. Go to the NRA website and look for instructors in your area. I highly recommend taking the Personal Protection in the Home and the ā€˜basic classā€™ for any style of firearm you are considering (pistol, shotgun,ā€¦). It should run <$100 a class. SPEND THE MONEY. These classes are for recreational shooting. They will provide a solid, safe background. After taking them DO NOT think you are qualified to reliably shoot at any thing besides well-behaved paper at 7 yds much less clear your home at 2am.

During the classes try as many different self-defense qualified weapons as possible. These include pistols (semi-auto and revolvers) of 9mm or .38 or larger in caliber and shotguns (12 or 20 gauge pump). After the classes, go to your local shooting ranges and rent these types of weapons again (and different ones from what you shot). Taking notes on what feels best in your hands to shoot and manipulate. If you stick with brand name manufactures for the gun (pistols: Glock, HK, Sig, S&W revolvers,? or shotguns: Remington, Mossberg, Winchester) use quality brand name ammo and keep your gear clean, it will go BANG when you need it to. It doesn?t matter what people on the web like, it has to work for you. Don?t buy one without having fired at least 50 rounds through the same or closely related model.

Do not think that when something goes bump in the night, raking a slide will make it go away. If that is your impression: stop reading this thread, buy a big dog, lift more and take up boxing. Make sure your classes have covered the local legal aspects of purchasing, ownership and use in self-defense of a gun. Listen very closely to the instructor on what it means to deploy a gun. Are you comfortable with the most severe outcome? If so, now you can consider purchasing a gun for defense. What gun?skip the fancy stuff and high dollar recommendations, get a good basic gun that?s comfortable to you. Then spend all the money you saved from not buying the Laser-Sighted Deathray 2000 with Optional Strawberry Sent on ammo and training.

Are you ready to defend your home and life, yet? NO, not with any level of confidence. Now go find some DEFENSIVE shooting classes. Figure ~$150/day and 500 rounds, it?s worth it. You will not believe the difference it will make. Also take a low-light class.

Guns are not magic talismans. They are tools that must be employed with skill to be effective. Shooting is a perishable skill. Defensive shooting even more so. You need to be prepared to practice and train on an on going basis. Otherwise your skills will deteriorate and you will miss, double clutch or generally brain fart when you need it the most. If you are not ready to make the commitment to invest time and money in your safety at this level, you are likely to endanger yourself with a false sense of security or poor gun handling. Learn what your weapon can you and what you can do with it.

To 911 Girl: I am an active pistol competitor in USPSA (IPSC). In the past 15+ years, I have shot various styles mostly steel challenge, NRA action (Bianchi Cup), and bullseye.

65

Mike: a related question to you on for home defense. Are ou worried about the ā€˜typicalā€™ B&E while you are home or were you a witness against a biker gang?

If itā€™s a B&E (robber, assault,ā€¦), have you already made your home less inviting to the scum of the Earth? If bad guys never consider your house for entry or you make it a little more difficult for them, it will reduce the danger. Prevention is always the preferable option to a cure. Remember you donā€™t have to make it impossible for some one to get in, just appear more of a risk than your neighborā€™s house. Small changes make big difference such as:

Good door locks with strike plates.

Window locks or sticks in the tracks.

Remove places for perps to hide while hacking into your palace by cutting bushes back from windows, paths and doors.

Install motion sensing lights.

If it fits your lifestyle a medium sized dog makes people think twice. Doesnā€™t have to be Cerebus just 50 or 60 pounds of slobberinā€™loyal retriever.

and if itā€™s the biker gang thingā€¦Alaska is nice.

66

Just one more vote for the 12ga shotgun.

Excellent advice about shooting it at cardboard to get an idea about the shot pattern. Youā€™ll find that at the distance equal to across your room, there is no shot pattern - just one big hole. Even at the distance equivalent to the hallway in my house, the shot pattern is about the size of my fist. So much for the idea of a ā€œscatterā€ gun. I have a Remington 11-87P (P for Police) model that I keep stoked with #6 birdshot.

Bear in mind a slug, and to some extent buckshot will overpenetrate, and could be a danger to your neighbors. Birdshot less so. Just donā€™t get the idea it will not. Most suburban interior walls and doors will not stop a close shot of birdshot completely. Your family in another room is not completely safe if you miss the bad guy and blast the wall.

Birdshot will rip human flesh in a most nasty manner at close range. I have seen this. 6ā€™ from shooter to shootee. It was bad on the receiving end.

FWIW, I keep a revolver ready too. Just 'cuz.

Train yourself mentally and physically. Displaying a weapon with no intent nor knowledge of how to use it could be detrimental to your health. If you discover a prowler and you are armed, the threat level you display is of lethal force. Faced with such, he may flee or fight. You must be prepared for either.

67

I keep a 12 guage shotgun in my home. Iā€™m definitely considering buying a revolver though. Iā€™ve put myself through drills with the 12 guage going from my bedroom to my back-door, front door, etc and consistently have trouble attaining quick fields of fire due to the length of the weapon. In short, I think a shotgun is a little to cumbersome to use effectively in tight enclosed spaces.

And Iā€™m not going to cut the barrel down because I use it for shooting skeet and trap as well as bird hunting.

GAINER

68

[quote]snipeout wrote:
The fingerprint fee has been 54 dollars for as long as I can remember, and the fee for the firearms ID card has always been 5 dollars. It should come top 61 dollars for fingerprints, the ID card and one permit, those are standard feeā€™s. The 54 dollar fee is a one time fingerprinting fee.

As for duty to retreat, you have to read between the lines, itā€™s what a reasonable person would be expected to do in that situation, taking in to account the belief that you are in imminent fear for your life, no prosecutor can tell you whether you are in fear for your life or not.

Considering that 2 bikers in possesion of any weapon for unlawful purposes were attacking one person I would say that is imminent fear and justifiable force. If you pick up a rock and use it as a weapon in the state of new jersey you will be charged with posession of a weapon for unlawful purposes.

As for someone attacking your wife, if there is fear of serious bodily injury or death to your wife(or anyone for that matter) you are not expected to retreat. As a sidenote no LEO, on duty or off duty is ever required to retreat, they are required to act.[/quote]

Thatā€™s the problem snipeoutā€¦what a reasonable person would be expected to do as determined by a county prosecutor.

Unfortunately NJ has a history of raising that bar to the point of absurdity. Your rock analogy would draw a chuckle in most of America. In NJ itā€™s accurate. That story I related was on a local talk show. The county prosecutor was absolutely livid that the homeowner just didnā€™t run away and horrified that he would even consider using a gun. Never mind that it was in his house. The guy was 50. The bikers in their 20ā€™s. She relayed all kind of information the LEOā€™s wouldnā€™t be required to do but that a homeowner is. It was sad but she held this innocent guy to a much higher standard.

I always thought that was the issue in NJ re: guns. Citizens are almost viewed as criminals for wanting them. For example could you imagine the NJ State Police apologizing for taking to long with a firearms permit backgrowund checkā€¦no way. The fact that you need a permission slip to purchase is disgraceful.

Now you know what the Pennsylvania slogan: ā€œAmerica Starts hereā€ means!

69

Glock 21 and Franchi SPAS-12 gaurd my abode!

70

[quote]WhiteLable412 wrote:
This is what i keep under my bed. only 1 person ever tried robbin me. vaporized his ass. i would def recomend it.[/quote]

Those are manafactured and sold in my town and you can go down and check them out! How is that for bitchen!

71

[quote]hedo wrote:
snipeout wrote:
The fingerprint fee has been 54 dollars for as long as I can remember, and the fee for the firearms ID card has always been 5 dollars. It should come top 61 dollars for fingerprints, the ID card and one permit, those are standard feeā€™s. The 54 dollar fee is a one time fingerprinting fee.

As for duty to retreat, you have to read between the lines, itā€™s what a reasonable person would be expected to do in that situation, taking in to account the belief that you are in imminent fear for your life, no prosecutor can tell you whether you are in fear for your life or not.

Considering that 2 bikers in possesion of any weapon for unlawful purposes were attacking one person I would say that is imminent fear and justifiable force. If you pick up a rock and use it as a weapon in the state of new jersey you will be charged with posession of a weapon for unlawful purposes.

As for someone attacking your wife, if there is fear of serious bodily injury or death to your wife(or anyone for that matter) you are not expected to retreat. As a sidenote no LEO, on duty or off duty is ever required to retreat, they are required to act.

Thatā€™s the problem snipeoutā€¦what a reasonable person would be expected to do as determined by a county prosecutor.

Unfortunately NJ has a history of raising that bar to the point of absurdity. Your rock analogy would draw a chuckle in most of America. In NJ itā€™s accurate. That story I related was on a local talk show. The county prosecutor was absolutely livid that the homeowner just didnā€™t run away and horrified that he would even consider using a gun. Never mind that it was in his house. The guy was 50. The bikers in their 20ā€™s. She relayed all kind of information the LEOā€™s wouldnā€™t be required to do but that a homeowner is. It was sad but she held this innocent guy to a much higher standard.

I always thought that was the issue in NJ re: guns. Citizens are almost viewed as criminals for wanting them. For example could you imagine the NJ State Police apologizing for taking to long with a firearms permit backgrowund checkā€¦no way. The fact that you need a permission slip to purchase is disgraceful.

Now you know what the Pennsylvania slogan: ā€œAmerica Starts hereā€ means!

[/quote]

If Snipeout is right about the whole pricing thing then Hillsdale PD really chewed me out for some cash. I got what I wanted in the end but god damn did I pay time and money.

72

I like the 12 ga. for home. And a revolver says a 38 cal snub nose stainless also they make the titanium revolvers real nice and light if you hike at all.

73

[quote]WhiteLable412 wrote:
This is what i keep under my bed. only 1 person ever tried robbin me. vaporized his ass. i would def recomend it.[/quote]

Uhā€¦a Barrett .50 will definitely punch through wallsā€¦and trees, and cars and planes andā€¦

74

Considerations for home defense firearms use:

  1. Size-long rifles (anything over 36") are less then worthless, as they are cumbersome and easy to disarm.
  2. Any pistol over 9MM is big enough (assuming it is a high pressure load) if you hit the nerve center. If you are not going to spend the time to become an excellent TACTICAL shooter, you are better off with a .40 or .45.
  3. Shotguns do not ensure a hit (who ever said you donā€™t need accuracy to hit with a shotgun has NEVER been in a tactical training scenario, much less a real shooting battle).
  4. If you need one shot, you are most likely going to need a second and third, and maybe more. This has a few implications. If you choose a pump shotgun, make sure you train enough that a full cycle happens ever time you fire. If you choose a revolver (my opinion, donā€™t), make sure you can reload, FAST. In fact, no matter what weapon you choose, get so you can reload fast, under pressure.
  5. If your weapon is a single action, make sure that the safety is on the frame, and you practice moving the weapon to fire AS YOU BRING IT TO TARGET, not before.
  6. Any real combat cartridge has rounds that have high penetration and rounds that donā€™t. Get the ones that donā€™t.
  7. Shoot your weapon. A minimum of 500 rounds are needed for basic skill acquisition, with at least 100 per month to maintain. In addition to this, at least a half hour a week should be spent practicing the various weapon skills (reloading, bringing the weapon to ready, bringing the weapon to fire, moving the finger to the trigger only AFTER a target is identified, moving the finger from the trigger after the threat ceases, transitioning from firearm to striking techniques, like buttstroking). If you are not willing to do this minimal amount of work, donā€™t even think about using a firearm for self-defense, you are a liability and a danger.
  8. Know the law.
  9. Donā€™t believe in the intimidation factor (it wonā€™t save you).
  10. Personal-Are you will to kill? Are you willing to prepare to kill?
  11. I high powered flashlight is just as important, inside, as the firearm.
75

I agree with the statement above regarding the acquisition of a .45 if you are not going to be a tactical shooter. Much better stopping power than a 9mm or .38, which is probably what uou would need in a stressful situation where your nice center mass shots at the range could devolve nicely, and that extra stopping power will ensure the intruder wonā€™t get a chance to retaliate.
I feel that the most dangerous places would be parking lots, city streets, and traffic lights. I, myself, have had more than one scare in each of these locations, and a friend of mine was killed by two gang members in florida when he was 16 just because he was white. He was shot in the head when they ran im off the road. Great kid, but unfortunately he was not old enough to carry a firearm. After that, Iā€™ve been carrying a firearm in my vehicle since I was 16. I started with a Glock 21, because that it all we had available at the time, but for my 21st birthday, my dad gave me his Glock 30, which is a .45 in a very small package, easily concealable, lightweight, and accurate.

76

[quote]hankr wrote:
The advice above is great - as pointed out, you can put 38 loads in a .357 revolver. Great bedside weapon, this is what my sweetie has. The reason you would want .38 loads is that the magnums will go through the asshole, through the walls, and kill the neighbors dog. Which might not be a bad idea, situation depending.

Revolvers are also inherently safe, despite what you see in the movies. No way to make them go off accidentally.[/quote]

Theres a rub with magnums, and any shooting in a confined space and low light, but magnums are worse.
The muzzle flash and blast from a magnum in a closed space is positively deafening.

After the first shot is fired, your ears are going to be ringing for hours,depending on lighting, you are going to momentairly flash blinded.

It can be just as disorienting for the shooter as it is for the perp, be aware of this, train for it so its not a suprise when in the gravest extreme, it happens.

77

[quote]beta wrote:
Considerations for home defense firearms use:

  1. Size-long rifles (anything over 36") are less then worthless, as they are cumbersome and easy to disarm.
  2. Any pistol over 9MM is big enough (assuming it is a high pressure load) if you hit the nerve center. If you are not going to spend the time to become an excellent TACTICAL shooter, you are better off with a .40 or .45.
  3. Shotguns do not ensure a hit (who ever said you donā€™t need accuracy to hit with a shotgun has NEVER been in a tactical training scenario, much less a real shooting battle).
  4. If you need one shot, you are most likely going to need a second and third, and maybe more. This has a few implications. If you choose a pump shotgun, make sure you train enough that a full cycle happens ever time you fire. If you choose a revolver (my opinion, donā€™t), make sure you can reload, FAST. In fact, no matter what weapon you choose, get so you can reload fast, under pressure.
  5. If your weapon is a single action, make sure that the safety is on the frame, and you practice moving the weapon to fire AS YOU BRING IT TO TARGET, not before.
  6. Any real combat cartridge has rounds that have high penetration and rounds that donā€™t. Get the ones that donā€™t.
  7. Shoot your weapon. A minimum of 500 rounds are needed for basic skill acquisition, with at least 100 per month to maintain. In addition to this, at least a half hour a week should be spent practicing the various weapon skills (reloading, bringing the weapon to ready, bringing the weapon to fire, moving the finger to the trigger only AFTER a target is identified, moving the finger from the trigger after the threat ceases, transitioning from firearm to striking techniques, like buttstroking). If you are not willing to do this minimal amount of work, donā€™t even think about using a firearm for self-defense, you are a liability and a danger.
  8. Know the law.
  9. Donā€™t believe in the intimidation factor (it wonā€™t save you).
  10. Personal-Are you will to kill? Are you willing to prepare to kill?
  11. I high powered flashlight is just as important, inside, as the firearm.[/quote]

I disagree you need to acquire a certain skill level with a fire arm and practice is required but a couple time a year or even once a year is adequate . As far as a long barreled weapon if someone is too close to shoot club them with the barrel. Remember we work out for strength.

78

9mm Carbine with an optical sight is a great choice. Ruger and SW make some good ones.