The fact that you’ve got “Replica” written down the side of your gun. (withdraws his gun) And the fact that I’ve got “Desert Eagle point five O” written on the side of mine, should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now… Fuck off.
http://magnumresearch.com/Desert_Eagle.asp
gotto love Snatch
All good ideas. Mine would be the Mossberg 500. Very rugged and a good value. My Mossberg is loaded with Federal Tactical 12 ga. Low Recoil in Double 00.
Someone gave you the requirements for purchasing a gun in NJ. It is truly the Peoples Republic. Worse then the old USSR. Very restrictive.
Keep in mind the Jersey is a duty to retreat state. What that means is you can’t use your gun, in your home, as a defensive weapon unless your life is in danger and you cannot retreat out of the house. You can’t shoot someone caught in the act of stealing your stuff and you can’t shoot someone for walking around your house in the middle of night. Don’t even think about shooting a fleeing burglar or someone who just assaulted your wife. No immenent threat to your life and you are going to jail. A few years ago a guy in South Jersey was attacked by two bikers armed with a folding buck knife who got into his house. He shot one and killed him, wounded the other as he was fleeing. He got charged with murder, the prosecutor felt a “pocket knife” was not an imminent threat!!
Make sure you learn the laws and keep in mind a legal shooting in NJ will cost you about $10,000 in legal fees just to get out of trouble. One where you are charged with a crime, even more.
12 gauge pump shotgun is the king without question. Handguns are defensive weapons.
You carry them because they are small and easy to conceal. Take a tip from the guys who do this for a living. If you have a choice about going into a confrontation, bring the most fire power you can. If the fight is going to be in your house, then you have a choice.
Personally, I love my Remington 870 magnum express. The 870 is legendary for its reliability. I have heard stories of target shooters putting 1 million rounds through them and they still function without a hitch. Can’t go wrong with a Benelli Nova either, but accessories for the Remington are a little more common.
Get the shortest barrel model you can legally own(18"). Although clearing rooms with a long gun is much trickier than with a handgun, the 18" barrel helps offset this. I would also get a magazine extension, some type of device to keep extra rounds on the gun(sling or side saddle) and a tactical light(can’t beat the surefire integrated fore end light but its pricey). These after market parts are not tough to put on yourself unless you are completely retarded with tools. Then find a gunsmith. Also might want to try to get tritium ghost ring sights put on the gun(you will need a gunsmith for that). After shooting both sights extensively, I prefer ghost rings to beads, but either will do. A complete tactical 870 like this will run you $600 to $800 dollars, but it is all the home defense gun you will ever need unless a SEAL team is after you. If you have extra cash, spend it on ammo and range time.
Although you don’t have to be a genius to operate a shotgun, if you don’t have military or law enforcement training on weapons handling, room clearing and the use of force, I would spring for formal training. And read all of Gabe Suarez’s books(type his name in on Amazon).
Good luck
[quote]hoosierdaddy wrote:
duece wrote:
I like the latter in terms of advice. I’d personally use a Remington T11-87 with Small Load shells. Won’t penetrate the walls, good spread so it’ll help with accuracy, easy to load.[/quote]
This is a fairly common miconception. Trap loads at indoor distances will penetrate several structural walls extremely easily killing anything in there path.
In fact, the difference between 000 buck shot and #9 birdshot at in the 5 to 7 yard range is nothing, and will perform as a virtual solid projectile.
Know what the fuck you are doing, don’t get your knowledge from the typical retards at the local gun shop, most have virtually no knowledge.
My advice as a LEO in NJ would be go to your local PD and get the paperwork for your firearms ID card and permits(if you wish to purchase a handgun). You’re going to have to fill out a background check and a psych history as well as have 2 full sets of fingerprints taken(most PD’s only fingerprint once a week). The cost is a one time $54.00 fingerprint fee to the new jersey state police, $5.00 for the firearms id card and $2.00 for every permit. It typically takes 8-16 weeks for the the state to process everything. During this time I would suggest that you definitely take some sort of firearms training and shoot all types of handguns and long guns. It all depends on what you want to spend, my next purchase is gonna be the GLOCK 37 it’s their new .45 GAP round, best value for a handgun IMO is the glock 27 it’s small, the mags hold 9 rounds and it’s a .40 cal all for around $400.
[quote]MikeShank wrote:
What is the best type of gun to buy for home defense?
I have no kids, live alone, and have never fired nor handled a loaded weapon in my life.
any suggestions on types of weapons and training necessary, would be appreciated.[/quote]
Mossberg 12-gauge. It’s the best “bang for your buck” (pun intended). Trust me, I’ve shot them all, and this gun is a bargain.
Chad is absolutely right. I overlooked the Mossberg. You can get those cheap too and it is a very slick handling shotgun.
I would be careful about the Glock 37 and that .45 GAP round. The .45 GAP seems to have solid ballistics(I say seems because it hasnt been around long enough to have a track record) but it is expensive and there is a serious question about that round catching on. To the more hardcore gun guys, remember the 10mm?
I throw my vote onto the Mossberg wagon. I have the Mossberg Mariner. Very comfortable shotgun to handle and versitile.
As far as handguns go I don’t really think of it as a weapon in terms of how the term is being used here. I know how to use it but it really is the last resort.
Anyone here ever compete in Active Shooter?
It’s a kick in the butt.
This caught my attention. Does this mean that if someone is aiming a pistol at me (and is right-handed), my best bet is to dive to the right initially?
[quote]bailey_run wrote:
One additional comment about a pistol (either a revolver or semi-auto) for home defense. Yes you only have one bullet coming out and it is much harder to hit the target, but to me that’s not the biggest issue. My concern is that in a highly stressful situation one tends to grip the hell out of a pistol (or whatever they are holding in their hand). Unless the grip of the pistol is evenly placed between the two meaty parts of your palm (I don’t know the medical terms but one is at the base of your thumb and the other is the base of your pinky finger) this tight grip will cause the pistol and hence the barrel to turn slightly in one’s hand.
Those with a pistol at home try it. Makes it hard to hit a person sized target at even a few feet. This may be the reason you see so many policeman miss their targets at point blank range. It’s easy to hit targets in a stress free environment, but try it when your life is in danger.
[/quote]
I’d go for a shotgun with a pistol grip (if you want to buttstroke someone you can get a pistol grip with a full stock). It would also be handy to get a forward pistol grip. Pistol grips make it easier to shoot from the hip and the shoulder when in tight corners the forward grip will help you chamber a fresh round faster.
Another really important thing to get is a weapon mounted Surfire flashlight. These suckers are expensive but will blind people. They are freakin bright. Ghost ring sights are the best for a tactical shotgun.
I’d also buy a handgun, a .357 snubnose revolver would be an excellent choice. If you feel danger it’s real easy to carry around your house with you. It’s also a great backup to the shotgun if something goes wrong.
Another great idea would be to learn the basic from and NRA instructor and then attend a tactical seminar, like Gunsite.
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/16/sesent/00
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5720&return=Y
[quote]snipeout wrote:
My advice as a LEO in NJ would be go to your local PD and get the paperwork for your firearms ID card and permits(if you wish to purchase a handgun). You’re going to have to fill out a background check and a psych history as well as have 2 full sets of fingerprints taken(most PD’s only fingerprint once a week). The cost is a one time $54.00 fingerprint fee to the new jersey state police, $5.00 for the firearms id card and $2.00 for every permit. It typically takes 8-16 weeks for the the state to process everything. During this time I would suggest that you definitely take some sort of firearms training and shoot all types of handguns and long guns. It all depends on what you want to spend, my next purchase is gonna be the GLOCK 37 it’s their new .45 GAP round, best value for a handgun IMO is the glock 27 it’s small, the mags hold 9 rounds and it’s a .40 cal all for around $400.[/quote]
Has that fee gone down some recently? In Bergen county, I paid a good $70 fingerprint fee that included psych/background check processing and about $150 for the actual yellow licence.
[quote]hedo wrote:
All good ideas. Mine would be the Mossberg 500. Very rugged and a good value. My Mossberg is loaded with Federal Tactical 12 ga. Low Recoil in Double 00.
Someone gave you the requirements for purchasing a gun in NJ. It is truly the Peoples Republic. Worse then the old USSR. Very restrictive.
Keep in mind the Jersey is a duty to retreat state. What that means is you can’t use your gun, in your home, as a defensive weapon unless your life is in danger and you cannot retreat out of the house. You can’t shoot someone caught in the act of stealing your stuff and you can’t shoot someone for walking around your house in the middle of night. Don’t even think about shooting a fleeing burglar or someone who just assaulted your wife. No immenent threat to your life and you are going to jail. A few years ago a guy in South Jersey was attacked by two bikers armed with a folding buck knife who got into his house. He shot one and killed him, wounded the other as he was fleeing. He got charged with murder, the prosecutor felt a “pocket knife” was not an imminent threat!!
Make sure you learn the laws and keep in mind a legal shooting in NJ will cost you about $10,000 in legal fees just to get out of trouble. One where you are charged with a crime, even more.[/quote]
WTF? Guys, it would be cheaper for you to move across to PA and live here, rather than pay the damn fees! That is insane. Duty to retreat? I truly feel sorry for you guys.
My Mom got her concealed carry permit in 25 minutes! My Dad tried to purchase a shotgun, but was denied due to a PICS error. We actually got a letter of apology from the state police. Our laws are a bit better, I guess.
I still can’t believe “duty to retreat”.
Later.
The fingerprint fee has been 54 dollars for as long as I can remember, and the fee for the firearms ID card has always been 5 dollars. It should come top 61 dollars for fingerprints, the ID card and one permit, those are standard fee’s. The 54 dollar fee is a one time fingerprinting fee.
As for duty to retreat, you have to read between the lines, it’s what a reasonable person would be expected to do in that situation, taking in to account the belief that you are in imminent fear for your life, no prosecutor can tell you whether you are in fear for your life or not.
Considering that 2 bikers in possesion of any weapon for unlawful purposes were attacking one person I would say that is imminent fear and justifiable force. If you pick up a rock and use it as a weapon in the state of new jersey you will be charged with posession of a weapon for unlawful purposes.
As for someone attacking your wife, if there is fear of serious bodily injury or death to your wife(or anyone for that matter) you are not expected to retreat. As a sidenote no LEO, on duty or off duty is ever required to retreat, they are required to act.
[quote]snipeout wrote:
My advice as a LEO in NJ would be go to your local PD and get the paperwork for your firearms ID card and permits(if you wish to purchase a handgun). You’re going to have to fill out a background check and a psych history as well as have 2 full sets of fingerprints taken(most PD’s only fingerprint once a week). The cost is a one time $54.00 fingerprint fee to the new jersey state police, $5.00 for the firearms id card and $2.00 for every permit. It typically takes 8-16 weeks for the the state to process everything. During this time I would suggest that you definitely take some sort of firearms training and shoot all types of handguns and long guns. It all depends on what you want to spend, my next purchase is gonna be the GLOCK 37 it’s their new .45 GAP round, best value for a handgun IMO is the glock 27 it’s small, the mags hold 9 rounds and it’s a .40 cal all for around $400.[/quote]
Hell - just move to Texas. We encourage the shooting of intruders. If you live in the right neighborhood, we’ll even make sure you get a free pistol when you move in. Just our little way of saying thanks for choosing the Lone Star State.
Hahahaha. I gotta move to Texas. Just better not be no wimpy 9mm.
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1122870636674.Gun.jpg
This is what i keep under my bed. only 1 person ever tried robbin me. vaporized his ass. i would def recomend it.
Glock came out with the 45Gap as a marketing scheme because a majority of people can’t comfortably grip a g21 or g20 because of its double stack magazine in 45 or 10mm.
Remember that the 45 and 10mm have a longer case lenghth than the 9mm or .40.
The 45GAP is a 45 caliber bullet in a case length diamater thats the same as the 9mm and .40.The 37 is supposed to be the big bore calibers lover dream come true in a mid size gun blah blah. I’ve shot the glock 37 and is real accurate, my follow up shots were more consitent than i noticed with the g22 and 23 (.40 calibers have a snappy recoil while the .45 has more of a push)
Glock is hyping a cartridge (like they hyped the .40) to believe to compare to a 45ACP. Nothing and I mean nothing will ever replace the .45 acp. The 1911 and .45 will always be #1.
This is for EMT: Walther P99- I put 300 rounds threw one last month and the extractor came completely off, also walther uses Mec-gar magazines which are crap. Do yourself a favor, when you turn 21 get yourself a glock17. I don’t care what anyone says about the 9mm on this forum a 9mm will put someone down just a much as the .40. Shot placement & consistency is more important then caliber choices.
I’m a 1911 nut,But every gun advocate should own
at least 1 glock (17 or 19) just to appreciate gaston glock’s design.
My G17 has been threw 17,000 rounds. I’ve had zero jams zero double feeds zero stove pipes and no failures to fire because I clean it regulary and I feed it factory ammo. Same goes for my G21 except for one time it went out of battery.
[quote]NateN wrote:
This caught my attention. Does this mean that if someone is aiming a pistol at me (and is right-handed), my best bet is to dive to the right initially?
bailey_run wrote:
One additional comment about a pistol (either a revolver or semi-auto) for home defense. Yes you only have one bullet coming out and it is much harder to hit the target, but to me that’s not the biggest issue. My concern is that in a highly stressful situation one tends to grip the hell out of a pistol (or whatever they are holding in their hand). Unless the grip of the pistol is evenly placed between the two meaty parts of your palm (I don’t know the medical terms but one is at the base of your thumb and the other is the base of your pinky finger) this tight grip will cause the pistol and hence the barrel to turn slightly in one’s hand.
Those with a pistol at home try it. Makes it hard to hit a person sized target at even a few feet. This may be the reason you see so many policeman miss their targets at point blank range. It’s easy to hit targets in a stress free environment, but try it when your life is in danger.
[/quote]
I don’t think anyone would argue that your best bet would be to avoid getting the pistol pointed at you in the first place.
You are correct about the rotation of the handgun. If a right handed shooter doesn’t have the butt of the pistol firmly in contact with the bottom pad on the palm (the one that extends from the base of the pinky) and attempts to really squueze the pistol it will pull off to the shooter’s right.
I’ve been shooting handguns a long time and this was just recently pointed out to me. It is almost never a problem at a range or when just casual shooting. Make it a life or death situatuion and I could see the potential problem.
Since this was made aware to me, I’ve tried hurridly grabbing my pistol and pointing at an imaginary target. I was quite shoked to see how many times I would have missed cleanly a target only a few feet away due to this grip problem that’s not really a problem in a low pressure setting.
Read all the above it is great advice.
Not to repeat, but my #1 choice is a 12 pump. But learn to use it. I suggest taking it to the range with a large sheet of cardboard. Start at 10 feet and fire a shot at the center, draw a circle around the shot with a permanent marker, and move back 10 more feet and repeat. Do this over and over for your chosen shotgun load so you learn the size of the shot pattern. I would also learn where it throws a slug with the smooth bore out to 30 yards. Ya never know if you might need extra penatration and keeping a couple slugs on hand is a good idea.
Once you know you pattern it is time to think practicle shooting versus target shooting. The vitals on a human are about the same size as an 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper. Get 3 differnt colors and arrainge them far apart in random order. Begin with one sheet of each out on the range. Have someone call out a color, and you have to hit just that color. Move to multiple sheets so you are learning to aquire multiple targets and moving the gun to do so. The badguy isnt gonna stand still. This is also a good handgun exercise for double taps.
Dont be afraid of a used shotgun if it’s been cared for. If you are going used, which I would do, many of the older modles will only handle the 2 3/4 inch long loads. For most home defence issues this should be fine. You dont need to go hog wild and get the 3 1/2 inch magnums. Depending on where you live and the moisture/humidity levels in your home I would suggest looking into the marine version with it’s stainless steal make up. This would take alot less maintenence and no worry about rusting.
Many have mentioned magazine extenders. These are neet little srew-ons that let you hold more ammo. They are cool, and easy to install, but you have to match them up to the length of barrel you are using. You dont want one longer than the barrel.
If you live in your own home I would look into installing kevlar enforced drywall in strategic locations.