@roscoe88 so you know that 300mg a week is too much for you.
25-30 EOD is better. That’s roughly 90-105 a week. There is a big difference between that and 300 a week. You’re still having issues so you’re so where in a middle ground.
Where does your free T sit at 25-30 EOD? I must say it’s quite a low dose. If you’re having any unresolved issues, that would explain it.
On that protocol, FT is about 193pg/ml. I think that equates to 19.3ng/dL. So, low as you and yeti would think.
My daily protocol I’ve used had ft 134, at only 16mg daily. And e2 of 20. So if anything id go
Back and try a higher dose daily as that e2 is low there. I’d have room to increase test upwards. This is all assuming its e2 that is bothering me on that eod protocol.
@yeti308 @dbossa do not take the bait. Just keep helping the guys on here with your advice and experiences …that’s what we need.
Wow this is the stupidiest provocation ever seen
@roscoe88 if I was you this is what I’d do. I mean this genuinely.
Based on your free T, I would do 200mg a week split into daily shots.
If you want to do an experiment, make a quick log as to how you’ve been feeling for the last few days. Switch to this protocol and in 6 weeks assess how you’re feeling compared to how you were feeling in your log.
You’re got nothing to lose. My bet is you’ll feel much better. Give it 6 weeks. You need to understand this stuff takes TIME to work.
That was EXACTLY my plan.
I am prescribed 150mg a week, but have a ton stockpiled.
I will start Monday. I have been keeping a log on everything daily for about 2 years now. It’s a MUST when dialing in. Thank you, and great podcast you posted.
Thank you @roscoe88. Please do let me know. If you don’t see me on the site in 6 weeks (my patience may have elapsed by then lol) send me a PM on FB should you have an account there.
@dbossa @yeti308 do you have any advice about guys with mild cardiomyopathy?
I recently found out my ejection fraction is at 45%. Cardiologist does not think trt caused this. Amen
He starting me on a beta blocker and Plans to add a angiotensin-receptor blockers (or ACE) not sure which to ask for.
The plan is to strengthen the heart muscle.
I have been on trt for about 2 years. Feel very good. Free t averaged mid range maybe a bit more. I had acute symptoms Oct 2017 that started my trt. Hot flashes. Severe insomnia. Heart palpitations. High blood pressure readings. They measure me test it was 200s on 2 occasions. Perhaps I had a virus and was not really hypogonadism. Idk.
Here is what my cardiac mri found. Not sure if you can comment on anything I said. Any info is appreciated. BTW a CT angiogram revealed zero plaque.
Impressions:
Non-ischemic, dilated cardiomyopathy.
No evidence of inflammation or edema. No delayed enhancement.
Findings:
systolic function(EF 45%).
Normal right ventricular size. Mildly reduced right ventricular systolic function (EF 46%).
Normal right and left atrial size.
No evidence of inflammation or edema. No delayed enhancement.
@charlie12 this is most definitely NOT my area. Considering TRT (both testosterone and E2) are cardioprotective, that’s going to be a plus for you to continue treatment. As for the rest, @yeti308 may chime in though he is not a cardiologist. All I know is that we have seen no evidence of TRT causing cardiomyopathy.
So what if we are online? What does that have to do with anything?
Do you have something against telemedicine? Do you have something against convenience?
And just so you know, we have 3 brick and mortar offices. 1 in florida and 2 in NY. You are more than welcome to stop by whenever.
BTW, over 50 is not good.
@increasemyt over 50 of what is not good?
Estradiol
@increasemyt how did you arrive at that conclusion?
The guys in our group who have E2 over 60 are the ones doing the best (there are hundreds). The ones under 60 are still working through their issues.
Do you not realize that the vast majority of the benefits of TRT come from the conversion to E2? E2 is what provides libido, erection strength, cognition, bone mineral density, reduction in visceral fat, cardiovascular health, etc. etc. This is a hormone that needs to be optimized as much as T, DHEA, pregnenelone, Vitamin D etc. Lowering it by any means is reducing the benefits which is why men have issues. You’ve got things backwards.
You still don’t get it man. It is not about symptoms it is about proliferation of tissue. It is about a common theme with breast cancer, high estrogen.
We don’t really know how it all translates, from the research I posted you can see this. But there is a certain mix that produces breast cancer, and estradiol is the main ingredient. And not just estradiol, HIGH ESTRADIOL
Yes there are people that can have a really high estradiol number and not have any symptoms, that does not mean it is good for you long term.
I have tried to explain to you this is the reason that Charles Huggins thought testosterone gave men prostate cancer. He found correlation with testosterone but not causation, but it was in fact estrogen not testosterone. What we know now is that testosterone has a limit to the tissue that it can proliferate. There is a saturation limit. So if it is not T, what is the obvious next guess?
So it is very possible, the missing link is estrogen, and this is where the confusion lies. Not only is there literature backing up my theory, it also just makes sense. It does not make sense to think testosterone gives you prostate cancer, if so every 21 year old male would have it. But it does make sense to say estrogen gives men prostate cancer, cause as we age estrogen dominance usually occurs.
This effect is going to be a lot like polycythemia, older men are going to MUCH MORE sensitization to inflammation. There is no doubt the culprit is estrogen, this is why they prescribe Tamoxifen with breast cancer meds.
So it has nothing to do with how you feel, you don’t feel prostate cancer. Long term high estrogen is DANGEROUS
This is an interesting take on the estrogen being the cause of age related prostate cancer. Is it possible / probable that it’s high estrogen in the absence of testosterone that’s the problem, since we see declining T in old men. Basically is it a ratio thing or an absolute numbers thing?
You nailed it, testosterone offsets the effect. But we have no idea if that is true when levels are in supraphysiological range
In the presence of “high” free t you are saying this?
@dbossa I think you don’t have to respond to increasemyt any longer. We get it. We see both of your points. At this point increasemyt is only trying to aggravate you and push you off the forum.
Push him off the forum? LOL no
@increasemyt everything you cite has one common flaw. You are citing BASELINE studies. I explain this specifically in the podcast I did. You cannot compare an obese man with cardiovascular disease and borderline liver failure with high E2 levels (to be expected) and low T levels (also to be expected) to a man on TRT with high levels of both. It is NOT the same thing. Why is it that when we give these men testosterone they improve? Why is it that we have not touched their E2 levels whatsoever? Menopausal women who have E2 levels in the toilet are given exogenous E2 and they improve drastically. I will say this again and again and again: E2 has never been shown to cause harm in over 80 years of research. There are only benefits.
By all means, swing by our group one day and ask some of the guys who have had their E2 over 100 for over 10 years, who look and feel amazing, that they should start taking an AI. It would be hilarious. You need to learn the difference between a baseline observational study and and what we are proposing. They are not the same. Baseline observational studies are meaningless here. In every one of these cases you give these people T or E2 (depending on the requirement) and they improve. The guys who get their free T levels over 30 enable them to get their E2 optimized through aromatase. This is when all the benefits kick in. It still amazes me that anyone would want to lower these benefits. It’s the whole damn point why we are on TRT in the first place.
Answer just 1 question for me then.
Why do they give women a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator when on breast cancer therapy?